Alabama inmate opposes being ‘test subject’ for new nitrogen execution method

An Alabama inmate would be the test subject for the “experimental” execution method of nitrogen hypoxia, his lawyers argued, as they asked judges to deny the state’s request to carry out his death sentence using the new method.

In a Friday court filing, attorneys for Kenneth Eugene Smith asked the Alabama Supreme Court to reject the state attorney general’s request to set an execution date for Smith using the proposed new execution method. Nitrogen gas is authorized as an execution method in three states but it has never been used to put an inmate to death.

Smith’s attorneys argued the state has disclosed little information about how nitrogen executions would work, releasing only a redacted copy of the proposed protocol.

Spendrill,

My position: no government should be given the power to kill its citizens under any other circumstances than to protect other people from imminent violence, i.e. the same circumstances that would qualify as self-defence by a private individual.

For the sake of argument: if you really wanted a painless and humane death what could be better than a carefully modulated dose of opioids?

I’m guessing the answer is if they get high on the way out then it isn’t justice because only fear and suffering will assuage those with a vengeance boner.

StorminNorman,

No, it’s because opioids aren’t 100% effective at a painless death either. At this stage, no death we know of is truly “painless”. Well, that we can prove anyway. They’ve had patients hooked to brain monitors when they’ve died in their sleep, the brain goes through severe stress at the moment of death. Drowning is meant to be okay, but for obvious reasons, we can’t prove that.

Bread_And_Buried,

There’s no way drowning is the way to do it… There’s a reason waterboarding is an “effective” means of torture.

StorminNorman,

Waterboarding isn’t drowning. It’s like mega drowning. Here’s one of many studies done on drowning that shows many people found it kind of calm as they neared death.

Colorcodedresistor,

some found it warm right before they froze to death too.

this ‘calm’ is the mind breaking. you detached allowing you accept the fate in front of you

there is nothing calm about drowning.

StorminNorman,

I offered proof that drowning is calm. You’ve claimed the opposite but haven’t proven it. So, prove it.

Colorcodedresistor,

Proof that drowning is calm. no son/girl you didn’t. linking articles doesnt trump real life. id link the ISIS HD drowning entire men in cages videos but. im not a monster

take a swim into the ocean if you want my proof. if you cant or wont do that. what’s to fear? drowning is calm!

StorminNorman,

I live within walking distance of a beach, I swim.in the ocean plenty. Got any more dumb insults, or are you actually going to surprise me and attempt to prove your point?

Colorcodedresistor, (edited )

I live in florida. the news is littered with drowning victims from ocean journeys or cruise ships. you living within walking distance of the ocean. wow. im not sure what you expected from me about that…take a swim, in the ocean. and keep swimming till the shore vanishes. then tell me how calm you get.

you really live a naive life if you think drowning is calm.

listen to yourself. ‘waiting till i prove a point’ …dude what ant hill are you defending by saying drowning isn’t anything less than violent? you wont impress your father, mother, loved ones by making this debate known to them. Drowning is not calm.

StorminNorman,

I’ve done long distance ocean swimming before, not being able to see the shore is not that scary.

And it’s quite telling that you can’t provide any evidence to back your claim. I’ve provided proof, why can’t you?

Colorcodedresistor,

quite telling that real life needs no proof beyond itself? drowning is not calm. you know this ,why are you fighting me?

StorminNorman,

Where do you think the data from the study I provided came from? Here’s a clue: it came from real life experiences.

Colorcodedresistor,

strange. no one shared that line of thought when i was in the navy. we all understood drowning to be very violent. you clearly know better with articles vs experience. i yield. live your life thinking drowning is calm…dude. lol

StorminNorman,

Then it should be easy to prove it. I have literally provided evidence. You haven’t. Stop trying to belittle me and prove your point. Cos I’m starting to think you can’t.

Colorcodedresistor,

im not belittling you. im telling you. Drowning is Not Calm.

real life supercedes your articles. as an experienced swimmer you know this to be true. drowning is not calm. you’re just being devils advocate for some weird reason.

if you think im wrong, voice this opinion of yours to your friends, family, loved ones. see if they agree with you. i wouldn’t though, you might burn bridges with your adamant standing against reason

StorminNorman,

Then prove it. There should be hundreds of studies proving you right. You can’t even provide one.

Colorcodedresistor,

you poor thing. :( you have my pity please , at least don’t tell others what you think. if you get someone killed from drowning would you even feel remorse? you keep reading your articles instead of watching real people drown in life, or on tape. you know where to find those videos. or are you not capable? you are …and you know better. have a wonderful. and hopefully long life. but again. when you drown, remember “this is calm , this is calm.”

StorminNorman,

Don’t waste your time trying to patronise me, use that time to find evidence to support your claim. And maybe pick up a book, you’re syntax is extremely hard to parse.

Colorcodedresistor,

It’s hard to parse because you lack the necessary comprehension skills to understand. Drowning Is Not Calm…Life needs no proof beyond itself. your child-like naivety will vanish when you witness a drowning personally.

but hey, keep shouting “show me proof”…i mean, if you want we can set up an experiment. Ill stick your head in a bucket of water. if you fight for your life. its not calm. if you just sit there and pass quietly. you were right…think about that. for a second. Hold your breath till you pass out. cant do it can you? Survival kicks in Fighting for your Life kicks in. the Calm you so ardently defend is your brains last dopamine hit to lull you some mercy. its not calm

you are a child who has not witnessed drowning if you believe its calm

Colorcodedresistor,

I’m begging you…one adult to another. why are you defending this ant hill? you know drowning is not calm.

StorminNorman,

I’ve literally provided evidence that it’s calm. This isn’t me just making something up, unlike you. Provide proof of your claim like I have. That’s all I’m asking. Your refusal is indicative as to how poor critical thinking is in the general public. No wonder the world is imploding.

Colorcodedresistor,

then why haven’t you drowned yourself yet? if its so calm. why arent others doing in en masse? because. its not calm.

StorminNorman,

People commit suicide by drowning all the time. I can prove that too. Which is more than you’ve done here. Seriously, it’s not a hard problem. You should have mountains of proof to counter me. Yet you haven’t.

Colorcodedresistor,

…i don’t think you realize. there is no proof required to see and know drowning is not calm. why wont you test your theory?

StorminNorman,

deleted_by_moderator

    •
    Colorcodedresistor,

    you really believe drowning is calm? as a swimmer you know this to be untrue. i don’t know why you keep spouting about science. it doesn’t take anything but life itself to tell you otherwise.

    when you drown, remember this conversation in the waning moments and remind yourself. ‘this is calm, this is calm’

    if that above statement doesn’t sit well with you. read your article again. and again and again. and remember drowning is calm. :D

    you hide under that sword until it cuts you my dude. but you aren’t convincing anyone. you can rebuttal all you want. look around you in this thread…see anyone else coming to your defense about calm drowning?

    im still here because what you believe is very dangerous and will likely get you and others killed. you cannot ignore that. if you do

    the outcome from your line of belief is the reason they put signs at the bottoms of caves, trails, and climbs, the reason we have lifeguards on the beach and other referees and guardians of other natural hazards. people like you think the rules of nature don’t apply to you. drowning is not calm. this is my last reply. i told you i yielded. you clutch those pearls of ‘drowning is calm an article told me so’ if you must but…idk. its a little heartbreaking to know there are flat earthers like you when it comes to drowning…alas for the living.

    StorminNorman,

    This isn’t a belief I hold. This is a fact supported by science. What you hold is an opinion not backed by science. You have provided 0 evidence to support your claim. Support your claim.

    Colorcodedresistor,

    Life supports my claim

    Drowning Is Not Calm

    StorminNorman,

    Then prove it. Should be simple.

    xmunk,

    A glib reply would be “What’s the worst that could happen?, they’d die?” but a far worse outcome is that they remain conscious but in constant pain for an unnecessarily long time. I’m personally against execution of any form but if it’s going to be done let’s make sure it’s humane.

    funkless_eck,

    well what you describe is how Normal executions go. Doctors won’t do it so it’s done by prison guards with no medical training and is often so disgusting the witnesses need counseling

    Colorcodedresistor,

    I’ve held dying people and animals in my arms as well as seen plenty of things die…Witnesses need counseling…heh, what did they think was going to happen? writhe in rainbows and unicorn throes of glitter death?

    Everyone should have to witness the brutality of Death. there would be less religion and less assholes in this world. but the ones left would make tv-evangelists and modern serial killers look saintly.

    A lot of human Bullshit exists from Ignorance. Show everyone what happens no matter what, Death. it’ll make people generally drop flights of political fancy and focus more on what matters

    Arthurios,

    My brother in christ, public executions were a thing in a time when the majority was religious.

    Colorcodedresistor,

    Yeah, I know. History was then. I’m making an analysis of the Now and Moving Forward. if you want to shape my guess about the future with history, sure. It’s a reference that can be used, but it doesn’t really complete the picture i was painting.

    Vodik_VDK,

    (Jacob Geller’s The False Evolution of Execution Methods)

    It’s different than you might imagine. There’s a certain unmistakable mix of institutional power, mandate, callousness, and incompetence that makes state execution’s uniquely awful.

    ziggurat,

    I am against capital or even corporal punishment.

    But if I were to pick my way of dying, nitrogen hypoxia is the way I would like to go

    Nitrogen is the most common thing you breath, almost 80% of air being nitrogen.

    You don’t feel like you are being choked, because that feeling does not come from less oxygen, but when other gasses like carbon dioxide is at a too high level. Foreign liquid, or even being unable to expand your lungs. There is no too low oxygen sensor in your body that is used to send pain signals.

    You gradually lose your cognitive faculties, including feeling pain or self preservation.

    I am against captial or even corporal punishment, even for heinous crimes.

    If you are thinking about ending your life, seek help with health care professionals, everyone deserves a chance to have a better life.

    All that said, I think nitrogen hypoxia is the most humane way of ending a life. I would even wish that my chicken nuggets got the least painful end to their lives

    doctorcrimson,

    Last time a new method of execution was made, lethal injection, it was developed by a veterinarian who vaguely described how it might work and then it was administered by non-physicians because no doctor would ever touch this. I wonder who developed this new method.

    tetelestia,

    I saw a video, I think on YouTube shorts, explaining how our bodies response when suffocating is from an abundance of CO2 rather than a lack of O2.

    Maybe whoever suggested this method saw the same video?

    Colorcodedresistor,

    Humans Know what works its given to everyone everyday that goes under for surgery. except…you just dial up the dosages and reject administering the wake up drugs…they want the accused to be punished. pain is a feature of execution. not a bug

    SirEDCaLot,

    Actually it’s pretty well understood.
    The human body reacts to CO2 buildup with a ‘gasping for air’ sensation. Nitrogen however, not at all. The air we breathe is 80% nitrogen 20% oxygen, so we aren’t sensitive to nitrogen at all. Breathing air with little oxygen is something well understood as it can happen to pilots of unpressurized aircraft. Here’s a funny example of what happens when pressurization fails. Once ATC figures out he has hypoxia, they order him to descend to 11,000’ (which is usually the point hypoxia starts to kick in) and he’s fine. But while he’s hypoxic, he happily admits he has no control over his airplane and is totally unbothered by that fact.
    There’s a thing called a hypoxia chamber- the oxygen % of the air is reduced (not eliminated) to simulate what it’s like being at high altitude without pressurization. Always funny videos there, grown men with oxygen-starved brains playing with a children’s puzzle trying to put the square block in the round hole.

    Execution by 100% nitrogen is the most humane death I can think of. The gas is odorless, and as it takes effect the prisoner would experience a euphoric feeling before just falling asleep and dying a few minutes later.

    That said, I’m sure they’ll fuck this up somehow- most civilized people have concluded that execution is barbaric and unnecessary, so whoever builds the nitrogen gadget is probably not going to be the sharpest tool in the shed.

    And that’s what a botched execution would look like- if you shut off the nitrogen too soon or don’t ensure a high enough nitrogen concentration, the prisoner will be left with brain damage but not dead.

    FeelThePower,

    i could never live with myself if i put anyone to death, regardless of how horrific an act they committed.

    pyromaniac_donkey,

    You’re a soft wrist

    crackajack,

    It’s not like there hasn’t been a mistrial ever in history and executed an innocent person. Right? Right?

    pyromaniac_donkey,

    Mistakes happen, get over it.

    crackajack,

    Well certainly you will be saying that when you are sentenced to death.

    pyromaniac_donkey,

    Death sentences are carried with DNA or self inculpation proof.

    crackajack,

    Not every cases involve those.

    viralJ,

    That’s why apparently the execution squads are told that at least one of them has blank bullets. And why two doctors do the lethal injection procedure simultaneously, but one of them is injecting saline. This way everyone can legitimately think “maybe it wasn’t me who killed them”. I think I read in in “Behave” by Robert M. Sapolsky.

    Kolanaki,
    @Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

    Meanwhile, medieval executioners simply wore a hood so nobody knew who they were.

    viralJ,

    Yeah but I think my answer was not about “I wouldn’t want anyone to know I killed someone” but more about “I couldn’t live with myself knowing that I killed someone”.

    TWeaK,

    What an idiot, he’s just turned down the most humane and painless way to go. You don’t notice nitrogen suffocation, because your body ignores nitrogen in the air and determines you’re suffocating by a build up in CO2. Instead, you pass out in blissful hypoxia.

    I’m against the death penalty as a rule of thumb, but if you have to do it then it should only be done via nitrogen suffocation. Anything else is just a refelction of the vindictiveness of the people administering or pushing for the punishment - it doesn’t achieve anything, it doesn’t deter future crime, it’s just you getting your own back and trying to say it’s ok to harm others in this instance. If the goal is to remove them from society such that they don’t harm or cost society anymore, then this should be done without the kind of harmful intent that the criminal themselves demonstrated.

    Tbh though I imagine this is just the guy’s lawyer trying to do anything he can to delay the execution. There’s some small chance that the state could do something wrong during the hearings that leads to some benefit for the prisoner. However I can only imagine the regret the prisoner might feel as he’s on the receiving ends of one of the other methods.

    driving_crooner,
    @driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

    How the latest execution method is always humane, while the last one was barbaric:

    TWeaK,

    Yeah the difference is this method is actually promoted by the scientific community, rather than commercial interests. Nitrogen suffocation is used for assisted suicide.

    I just wish we’d use it for pork. However because it’s so hazardous to humans (boiling nitrogen releases gas that expands very quickly and expells all the oxygen in the room) we just stick with CO2, which is very easy because it’s heavier than air so you just have walkways to protect the people. With nitrogen, they’d require much more expensive safety measures to protect people working nearby. Also, CO2 causes a feeling of suffocation, leading to the pig lashing about and suffering, and possibly spoiling the meat somewhat.

    Electrocution is perhaps the worst. They actually limit the current, meaning it kills you a little more slowly or maybe not at all, because if they went full power they would literally cook the person and that would smell unpleasant for everyone else. Lethal injections aren’t much better, typically they paralyse the person first so they can feel themselves dying but not move to show any sign of it.

    I’m certainly keen to learn of any further downsides to nitrogen, but as far as I’m aware it’s the best thing going (out of a horrible bunch of ways to kill). Like I said before, I’m against the death penalty as a rule, but if you’re going to do it then it should be as painless as possible.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • uselessserver093
  • Food
  • [email protected]
  • aaaaaaacccccccce
  • test
  • CafeMeta
  • testmag
  • MUD
  • RhythmGameZone
  • RSS
  • dabs
  • oklahoma
  • Socialism
  • KbinCafe
  • TheResearchGuardian
  • Ask_kbincafe
  • SuperSentai
  • feritale
  • KamenRider
  • All magazines
    •