If someone askl her to move why don’t she ? As it don’t change anything out worlds both ways. In a society people take care each other. It’s just a stupid and childish behavior
Why would anyone aske her to move? It makes no difference how much space is in front of her. To me, creeping up on the people in front of you is the childish behavior.
Because we don’t know how much space is behind her, and the people waiting behind her. By her not moving to fill the available space, she may wind up causing people to overflow the line.
Speaking of childish, that’s how that woman in the picture is acting, thinking ONLY of herself. It completely DOES make a difference, SHE’S IN A LINE, GENIUS. Lines only work when the objects in them continue to shuffle forward in constant progression. Any 1 year old knows this, why doesn’t she? Why don’t you?
Lines only work when the objects in them continue to shuffle forward in constant progression.
This obviously isn’t true. Lines work as long as the ordering in them remains the same, and as long the object at the front is processed. How far apart they are or how fast they move is irrelevant.
Her logic is correct. As long as it isn’t her turn yet and there is enough room behind her for the rest of the queue to stand, moving makes no difference.
No, that’s what makes a queue a queue. Think if everyone in the queue acted like this, you wouldn’t have a queue, just a bunch of people standing around without organisation. We move up striaght away to maintain the structure of the queue so we can all tell where it starts and ends, who is I front of and behind who.
If we do not respect the core structure of a queue we surrender to discord and forsake the simple beauty and elegance of the queue and betray the civilation that queue allows us to make.
No, if everyone acted like this it would be a tightly packed queue apart from one gap near the start. There would only be a gap behind her if she was moving too quickly for the person behind her to bother moving, and the whole point is she’s not doing that. The one gap doesn’t matter because of the barriers.
This is why I hate airports. She’s right and her behavior actually makes it better for everyone, but people are too illogical to see it and get angry with her. There are simple logical solutions to every part of the airport experience, but people just do what they’ve always done or behave like dumb animals instead. Like rushing to be at the front of the boarding queue, when seats are reserved. Or crowding tight around the luggage return as if that makes your bag come faster, when if everyone stood back you could casually walk over and pick it up when it came.
It doesn’t make it better, large gaps in the line extend the amount of space the line needs in the facility. During busy hours that would extend the line far out into areas needed for other things.
It’s only the same thing for the person leaving the gap, due to the fact that there’s ropes preventing people from getting between the person standing there and the person in front of them.
Also, if the gap gets big enough that the time spent gathering up your luggage and moving to the front of the line causes delays, those delays will add up during busy times.
It’s a game of chicken at that point, and if everyone acted like that, it would significantly increase wait times.
you would be right, but the social construct of a line is one of managed movement. stand right behind the person in front of you, moving forward every time they adjust their standing position so you’re breathing down their neck the entirety of the queue? wrong. Stand there while a gap enough to fit 10 people opens in front of you? also wrong.
in the first scenario you’re making the person in front of you uncomfortable, in the second scenario you’re making the people behind you frustrated at the lack of movement.
you’re in a walking queue, if walking is inconvenient for you to such a degree that you can’t move forward with the pace of the line, then an accommodation such as a wheelchair, a luggage carrier, or checking in elsewhere should be arranged by you.
Counterpoint: Because you are not advancing, neither is everyone behind you. And as a result, the experience in the queue is one of stagnation, which makes waiting in the queue more frustrating until the very moment that it’s finally your turn.
So no, I think staying put while the queue ahead of you is moving is worse behaviour than creeping along.
Not quite, you are still aware numbers are being called and you can equate that to progress through the wait. It would be the same if they somehow concealed all sense of forward progress through the queue.
You can still see there are fewer people left in the queue… unless it’s really long and you’re far in the back, but then likely wouldn’t notice much of a difference either.
So because the customer service is so abysmal, we should voluntarily engage in our own little acts of self placation to compensate for the liveable hours we’re contributing to the system? That doesn’t seem healthy. Seems like a quick way to end up with absurdly long lines for no discernable benefit.
Hello, only logical person in the thread! This is correct, and your reward for being rational is downvotes.
She isn’t increasing the amount of time anyone spends in the queue. She is reducing the number of times they have to pick up their luggage and shuffle forwards. They should be thanking her.
Yes, if the queue is overflowing she should move, duh. It obviously isn’t or the OP would have mentioned it. The airport is clearly almost empty.
But then the person behind her would just wait to move at all until she’s made it through, the line would continue to grow backwards and each next person would have further to walk, and have to have better prediction times/cause longer waits at the service till.
You can’t “reference a meme” whose text constitutes a response to the discussion (even modifying the quote to make it more applicable to the new situation) and then try to pupu someone when they comment on your response. You’re tryna have your cake, eat your cake, and deflect anyone who mentions that you ate your cake too. And that’s not allowed.
If you wanted to make a non-sequitur, you could have. But you chose to make use of a quote that (by omission of further context) espouses agreement albeit grudging agreement with one of the two prevalent positions being discussed and so you’re now in the discourse.
Willful denial of the feelings of others is irrational in itself. Everything you know about humanity should lead you to believe that others have feelings too
She’s counting on people behind her not doing the rational thing which would be ignoring her and just passing her if there’s lot of empty room in front of her.
I guess it depends on your definition of “rational”. From a pure logic perspective (i.e. the math definition) being rational just means making optimal choices in pursuit of your goals. I can be perfectly rational, understand that others have feelings, and simply not care about them unless they benefit me. Being perfectly rational basically makes you a sociopath, only considering other factors or people when they further your goals. Emotions and feelings are irrational to begin with, but sometimes it’s better to be a little bit irrational
This was a rough read. The leap to think it’s purely rational to be entirely selfish is absurd. You need help from other people to function in society. It’s also entirely logical and rational to benefit the group. Being selfish is not “purely mathematically logical”. That’s just being dumb and selfish. Are you going to steal from your coworker because you benefit from it or are logical enough to look a couple steps further and see helping them so they help you benefits both of you far more? There’s tradeoffs for sure but sociopaths aren’t just too rational
Uh what did you even read what I said? You’re not addressing anything I said. And you can’t just make up your own definition for a word that definitely has one. Quick search, Oxford dictionary says rational: based on or in accordance with reason or logic. Which being purely selfish absolutely is not for my previously mentioned reasons you’re ignoring. You can’t just redefine a word to suite your argument
Edit: this funny since you keep mentioning mathematics:
MATHEMATICS (of a number, quantity, or expression) expressible, or containing quantities that are expressible, as a ratio of whole numbers. When expressed as a decimal, a rational number has a finite or recurring expansion.
Feelings are not rational or not; they are a state and part of the deduction you’re calling logic. Your description of following reason as being sociopathic is wrong. What you are describe is being over-biased to your wants. Nothing about logic says it’s ideal to live only for yourself. Any suggestion of what you should use sense for is arbitrary.
I think you’re just fundamentally misunderstanding what being rational means. There is nothing inherently rational in being selfish or only caring about your own goals and what benefits you, especially not when you are a member of a species that evolved to be extremely social and community focused. Emotions and feelings aren’t inherently irrational either. They can certainly be expressed in irrational ways, but they themselves are neither rational or irrational. They’re just a fact of nature. You might as well say it’s irrational for living creatures to have to excrete waste. Sure, it may be irrational to take a piss on your boss right before asking for a raise, but the act of taking a piss is not in itself rational or irrational. It’s just a bodily function. So if you refuse to take that factor into consideration because you claim it’s irrational, well that’d just be ridiculous.
Imagine a teacher refusing to let a student get up to go to the bathroom because they claim it’s irrational to need to take a piss, and therefore perfectly rational to force them to stay where they are and ignore their bodily needs. The teacher is being selfish in that situation, only making optimal choices in pursuit of their own goals (to teach the class without interruption), and doesn’t care about the other person’s need to perform bodily functions unless it benefits them. And yet I think most people with even half a brain cell will agree that the teacher in this scenario is not in any way shape or form acting rationally. They’re just being a dickhead.
Sociopaths aren’t more rational than other people or “too rational”, they lack the ability to feel empathy or they only feel a small amount of empathy but not enough to affect their decisions. It has nothing to do with being rational or logical, sociopaths can often be very stupid irrational people. Not to mention, while sociopaths often don’t care about how other people feel, they do often care about how other people perceive them.
I hate it so much when people do that with their cars. It just makes the traffic jam much longer than it needs to be, possibly even extending it over the previous exit. It’s not rational, it’s just plain stupid and annoying.
Depends. Bigger gaps mean the traffic jam will get better faster since it reduces the stop and go. Ofc the gaps need to be reasonable but the people driving bumper to bumper make it even worse
Yeah, it’s really fun trying to “fix” minor traffic jams by holding back a while then moving forward very slowly. If you time it right you never catch up to the car in front, because they reach the front of the queue before you reach them. Then there’s no traffic jam left behind you, because everyone is moving.
If everyone followed the one rule “keep as much space in front of me to the next car, as there is behind me to the next car, at all times” it would do the most to alleviate most traffic jams.
Sure…and if you were the 18 wheeler, you would give the proper stopping distance to the car in front of you, but it would be up to the person behind you to make sure they give you the same birth from behind. If they are on your (the 18 wheelers) ass, they would be causing traffic.
This isn’t meant to be a license to speed up it someone is riding your ass, it’s a rule that if EVERYONE followed, it would dramatically cut traffic jams.
I’m kinda in between. When the car in front of me drives off and stops I’ll creep slowly with my car 50% of the time I can keep a slow pace without start and stop.
That’s not a problem, in fact it even helps the flow. What I meant was when folks keep an excessive distance to the next car, like in the OP (that lady could advance like, 10 places or so, translated into car lengths that would be 50 meters).
There are people who literally turn off their engine and don’t start it again until they can go for 100 meters or more. This wastes road space and encourages lane-hopping, which also makes the traffic jam worse.
The problem with this is if it’s a long enough line, there could be a persom trying to get into a turning lane and they can’t because you have a big ass gap between you and the car in front. That means the person could miss their light because they can’t get over.
It’s fine if you look behind you and you’re not cutting someone off from a light or turning.
If I can’t get in the turning lane I’m sitting behind the last person who is, most people in my state recognize this as totally fine and will deal with the lane blockage
I agree. I try to keep my situational awareness at very high levels while I’m behind the wheel, so in high density traffic, I’m looking for issues exactly like you describe. I’ll move if there’s enough room to move into and I see something that might be solved simply by moving (or I’m unable to rule out that it won’t help, due to being unable to see enough).
I always stop at intersections even if the light is green when it is clear that there’s nowhere to go because traffic is backed up to a standstill. Where I come from people would honk at you and then pass you so that they can get stuck in the intersection and cause a traffic jam, then they give you the finger and scream at you out the window like its your fault. Savages
Have you ever considered that this extends the backup for those behind you? That it actually does take time for your car to decelerate when you’re stopping at the green light, in addition to the fact that it takes more time for multiple cars to pull off in series per car than just one? How about stop trying to be quirky and just go through the green light like a normal person?
In almost every jurisdiction on earth, you aren’t allowed to block an intersection. OP is doing the right thing by waiting on the other side of the intersection for space to move into. If anything they’re avoiding traffic by not blocking the tangent lane of cars at the next light.
Exactly. I’ve been fucked far too many times by the behavior the guy above you is condoning. People who block intersections are as much a part of the traffic problem as weavers, left lane cruisers, tailgaters, cutters, and all the jerks who deny zipper merging.
Valid. I missed the getting blocked into the intersection part because that feels like a given. Why even say anything at that point? It’s a very mundane thing to say that you follow the rules of the road.
That’s on me for looking for the argument before reading to understand.
Have you ever considered that in most places it’s literally illegal to block an intersection, and that if there is not space to proceed through the intersection you’re supposed to stop before it?
Where am I going? To make room for people trying to clear the intersection behind me. Failing to pull forward means they’re either stuck on the far side for another cycle of the light or they’re going to block the intersection. With really busy intersections leaving those big gaps can make a huge impact on traffic trying to get through the one behind you.
Even more fundamental than signal cycles, you’re moving out of the way for people still driving forward behind you. Creating gaps in traffic is what causes spontaneous traffic jams behind you that can last for hours.
This is a real pain in the ass if you drive manual:
Auto cars relax pressure on brake pedal to inch forward;
Manual cars take foot off brake, drop clutch, engage gear, engage clutch, move forward, drop clutch and engage brake again, gear to neutral, foot off clutch.
I’m sure all this inching forward happened a lot less when most cars were manual (Europe).
Idk if it’s ok to do but I’ve always just: keep it in first and clutch + brake -> bite on the clutch and swap to accelerator a smidge to move forward in traffic. Doesn’t bother me much tbh but I’ve never driven an automatic so idk if I’m missing out.
I’m also a MT driver. I’ve driven my fair share of AT’s though. With an AT, it’s always pushing forward, so the brake is actually working against the idle force of the engine, so simply releasing the brake causes forward movement.
I too sit at most lights while standing on the clutch and brake while in first. It’s the MT “ready to go” stance to me. For very long lights, I’ll kick it into neutral and take my foot off the clutch, but for the most part, in active traffic, I’ll just stand on it, because the light usually isn’t long enough for me to reposition that much…
It’s far easier to do as you say, as a veteran of MT driving, newbies will struggle, as they do. To be fair, I’d do the same as you, but I’m still very pragmatic about when I do it.
Yeah it’s definitely a different kettle of fish when you’re on a hill in traffic and swapping to the handbrake constantly, I think that’s where newbies really struggle.
I’ve only been driving since 2012 so I wouldn’t call myself a veteran since I know a few delivery drivers and the difference in experience is unreal lol
That’s probably around when I got behind the wheel of my first standard, and I’ve driven a MT car as my main, daily driver, ever since. And I drive most days for at least 30 minutes a day any day I drive.
You’re probably better than you give yourself credit for. By no means am I a perfect MT driver, but I can definitely drive manual very adequately, at least as well as I can drive an AT vehicle, which is what I learned on in the mid 2000’s. I had the benefit of 5+ years of driving before I started with a MT vehicle, then drove nothing but manual for over 10 years.
15 years of driving + 10 of that being on a manual, means I’m very much not new at it.
I feel this pain. I’m a MT driver, it’s part of the reason I’m very pragmatic about when I creep forward… If I’m going to move forward just a little bit, I’m going to need a pretty good reason to do so; thus I try to be very observant to what’s going on around me, specifically regarding if the gap in front of my is negatively affecting the movement of vehicles in my immediate area, like blocking laneways or slip lanes, etc. If I’m not creating a problem with where I am, I don’t bother moving.
I don’t live or drive in areas where the traffic is so dense and the spacing of the lights is so short that this is a problem.
I tend to notice, frequently, if there’s any issues like this in my immediate area, like blocking a laneway or people getting stuck in an intersection or behind it, and I react accordingly… Sometimes packing myself against the car in front of me, far closer than I normally would to try to fix such problems behind me. I’m sure I don’t notice 100% of the time, but I’ll notice an issue and creep forward to less than a foot to the vehicle in front of me, to make space so the person behind can move to clear a laneway where someone is stuck, only to have the person behind me not notice that I’ve moved, and continue blocking the laneway.
I’m pragmatic about it. If there’s no good reason to shift forwards, I will probably just wait where I am. Once the light goes green though, I’ll close the gap pretty quickly.
Agree if you are talking about people who edge over the line at the front of the queue but leaving massive gaps between you and whoever is in fro t causes issues further back.
You could be creating a block at a joining road behind you. You could be blocking a filter lane for traffic making a left/right turn from a dual carriageway.
Just move your car forward and remember that you dont know what issues your decision might cause and its a little self entitled to assume everyone else is just waiting in the same line as you.
Oh, certainly if it’s a significant gap, more than a car length more than I would normally stop, I’ll shift forwards, especially in high density situations (if nobody is behind me and I’m not blocking a laneway, then I’ll probably just sit there).
Something to add to the consideration is that I drive standard, so moving a small amount is a lot more difficult for me than most drivers, and takes more active effort. Most AT drivers just release the brake for a few seconds and they can close the gap. I have to release the clutch and possibly press the throttle to ensure the engine doesn’t stall… Etc.
I’ll still do it, but my tolerance for a gap in front of me is much higher than others.
Fair enough. I may have taken meaning that you didnt intend from your comment. I had assumed you were purposfully holding up traffic because you were teying to point out somebody else being dumb on the road.
Its the same for everyone behind her as well, unless you forgot how lines work. Id rather stand still for 5 minutes and move 15 feet than 18 inchs every 30 seconds.
Have you never been to a busy airport before? The lines already fill the breezeway even when they move forward. What do you think is going to happen with the constant flow of people arriving at a line that doesn’t move? It’s going to quickly become a safety hazard.
This is exactly the mentality in the roads on my country “either way there’s traffic so I stop 10 meter from the car in front of me when on the traffic light” then less cars pass the light which means mor traffic waiting at the lights. People just do t get it but they only think about themselves
Its only the same if you strictly consider ‘the time I stand in this line’.
Its different because everyone behind her loses a feeling of progress from moving up, and it increases the queue length (at least visually) which can impact other people’s decision on which queue to join which, of course can impact the other queues.
To think the way the image suggests is to be inconsiderate to others around you.
Unless they considered all of those things and only didn’t move because there wasn’t any point, which to me is ultimately what staying in place is about.
In that very specific situation, yes it’s inconsiderate. We’re missing details like how busy the airport is etc so it’s a little unfair to point out though.
the photo is from someone behind her. Even if one person is behind her then she is being inconsiderate to that person by waiting even if the other elements are not present.
That person behind her could be her partner or friend, we don’t know. I’d imagine in that case they may feel a little stressed, but breaking that stress would be good imo. Why let a line-up bother you? Theres 3 more lines to choose from with hers being the longest. It’s also confirmed not spilling out if you observe the image.
There’s a possibility she’s being inconsiderate, but there’s a bigger possibility she’s fine based on visual evidence over reddit rhetoric.
The person who took the picture is presumably the one who wrote the caption, so unless they’d call their partner or their friends “this girl”, we do in fact know that isn’t the case.
Since this is an airport those lines are likely for different services, not just 3 options for the same service.
If something you’re doing is annoying an entire group of people around you and they’re all asking you to stop, then 9 times out of 10 what you’re doing is inconsiderate. There’s no good reason to just stand there ignoring everyone else instead of moving with the line and conserving space other than because you only care about how you personally feel on principle and your desire to die on a really stupid hill.
If her choice just affected her then that’d be one thing, but she’s forcing her choice on everyone in line behind her regardless of whether they want to keep moving or not. If she wants to stand in place and wait so badly then she can ask someone in front or behind her to remember her place in line and let her back in later (most people are willing to agree to this if asked politely), then she can stand off to the side until her spot gets to the front, and go back to where she was once it’s her turn, then everyone gets what they want.
If she wants to stand in place and wait so badly then she can ask someone in front or behind her to remember her place in line and let her back in later (most people are willing to agree to this if asked politely), then she can stand off to the side until her spot gets to the front, and go back to where she was once it’s her turn, then everyone gets what they want.
We can all do that! Just remember what order we were in and stand off to the side until our turn in order comes up. Though, to make sure no one gets in other’s way when it’s our turn, we should stand off to the side in order of who’s place in line is first. Then we can all just stand off out of the way, all queued up!
Wait… what’s that? You’re saying I just made a whole other line in a different spot in a less efficient layout and not the area selected by the airport as closest to our destination? And this person’s “system” only works because she’s the only one doing it and she thinks that she’s figured out a cheat-code for life, but is actually an asshole?
Society would break down if everyone just did the thing that was best just for them with no credence given to anyone else. The only reason she’s able to get away with doing this kind of thing is because everyone else cares more about moving on with their life and the established systems moving forward rather than grinding them to a halt to get her on board. It doesn’t make her more logical. It makes her more selfish.
The person who took the picture is presumably the one who wrote the caption, so unless they’d call their partner or their friends “this girl”, we do in fact know that isn’t the case.
Social media and “like” counts make that statement invalid.
You can say and do literally anything online. I’d need empirical proof, like the actual OP posting photos with the girl more or something substantial. Not a fucking twitter/X reply to a screenshot of a reddit post from a rage-bait farm.
Until then, this is a hypothetical situation. But in this hypothetical situation, we know there is at least one person behind her. We can estimate there’s at least not enough people to spill into the main area based on the remaining space in the photo showing the last section of the line empty. We gather that data based on a reliable presumption that the neighboring line-ups are fairly identical. At most, anyone behind her is feeling the mad breakdown of societal rules stripping away and beind made fun of in the actual post.
The only context I’m missing is airport procedure, it’s been awhile. I don’t know if one must line up at a specific line for departure check-in.
If she was actually causing problems and being snarky about it, I’d be on that drama. I just don’t see the evidence for being mad, especially for people feeling a little anxious over something that’s probably relieving her of anxiety. Fuck lines and chill out until it’s time. Moving will not change the fact you have to wait.
In the context of the meme shes holding up a line and people are bothered by it. It takes little effort to progress through a queue instead of causing an issue for others just because you can.
We don’t know if anyone is bothered by it except whoever posted it to the reddit and everyone here imagining a ton of people behind her. The photo might not even be owned by the OP. If someone has evidence of the contrary I’d change my mind, but otherwise there’s 0 reason to be triggered by this.
But it’s just a feeling of progress not actual progress. Whether she moves or not there’s still the same amount of people ahead of you in queue. Plus it’s an airport you queue for the airline that you booked with there’s no decision of queue to impact. The only actual factor is whether or not it spills out past the barriers so she can periodically check and move if that’s the case
The feeling of progress literally affects how our brains perceive time. We experience it passing more quickly when we are moving and feel like we are progressing. To our brains and our perception of time, it very much is the same as actual progress.
True rationality and logic would not dismiss perception. Time is literally relative. How the brain perceives the passage of time and the factors that affect it is a fact of biology. If you perceive time as passing more slowly when you aren’t moving, then being forced to stand still will literally make it take longer for you from your frame of reference.
Considering the feelings of others is a thing though, and many airlines have multiple queues even for the single airline. I guess it depends on how large the airport is but the consideration of others remains. Traveling is stressful, why add to that just because you can?
Yes the point of the post is that a single person acting perfectly rationally will be seen as mad by a civil society which is also perfectly illustrated by people saying “yes that does make sense logically but what about my irrational emotional perception of time?”
Right, that’s why it says perfectly rationally. If someone is really being perfectly rational they should only care about how long they wait inine, not a feeling of how long they wait. I don’t think being “perfectly rational” is something folks should strive to do.
Fuck everyone else though right? That doesn’t sound rational does it? In that case why even wait in the line? Just walk to the front because that will shorten your time
Right, it’s illustrating the foolishness of endlessly pursuing “rationality”, it’s not something people should do. I literally said it’s not a good thing. Just because something is rational doesn’t make it good. Humans are emotional beings.
Except being rational is not void of emotional reasoning, so “perfectly rational” does not mean “thinking without any emotional logic involved whatsoever”. This person isn’t thinking rationally, they’re just thinking very literally.
I think rational in this context doesn’t include emotional logic. I see your point though. I’m just saying I think they’re using the word differently than you.
I don’t think the person’s behaviour is rational at all. The queues in an airport are set up like they are for a good reason, to maximize the amount of people queuing in a given area. That is the rational behind the setup.
The person in the picture is ruining the system based in the time being spent queueing. But she is not considering the space taken up by the queue as a whole. Not very rational.
It’s less work for everyone involved, because they have to pick up their things fewer times.
The length of the line is determined by how many people are in it, not how close they are standing to each other. Being up in the business of the person in front of you doesn’t make anything go faster.
Also it would be beneficial to a person joining this line, because it has less people in it compared to other wines of the same apparent length.
So the only people who are actually negatively affected are the ones who join other lines. And the neurotic who get irrationally angry at seeing the gap.
Personally I would rather pick my heavy stuff up for shorter stretches, especially if there’s more than I can carry at once. Can you imagine the chaos of her moving forward 20 feet and each person behind her having to carry two bags forward 20 feet and then run back for their other bag/pet carrier/baby car seat? Especially if they don’t wait for each other? Or someone tries to help but now the helpee can’t say they’re the only one who’s handled that bag? Dragging everything 3 feet at a time is hugely preferable.
That ONLY assumes that everyone is perfectly aware enough to not cause the line to extend out of the allotted area, AND nobody misses the fact that the front of the line moved far enough that they never cause a pause at the front. Assuming everyone has the ability to do this means that there shouldn’t have been a line in the first place. (and nobody has their face in their phone, like the person in the picture)
The line staying in the allotted area doesn’t make TSA work any faster. But you’ll get no argument from me that the people near the front of the line need to be paying attention.
It’s not even the same if you strictly consider ‘the time I spend in this line’, which I would assume is to most people the time that actually matters.
Everyone behind her doesn’t just lose the feeling of progress, they lose actual time (granted it’s probably just a few seconds). And she loses that time also.
The actual justification here seems to be that she’s busy doing something on her phone and doesn’t want to be distracted every 30 seconds, which in her mind trumps the handful of seconds she and everyone behind her would gain.
Which imo would be fair enough, if you didn’t have to also add the annoyance of the people behind her to the equation.
Many people standing in such queues are tired, stressed about catching their flight, or otherwise impaired and someone holding up the queue for no obvious reason can become aggravating fast.
Had a guy losing his fucking mind behind me in bumper to bumper traffic. I always like to keep about 1.5ish vehicle length (obviously not a real metric, just a guess) between me and the person in front in case people need to switch lanes or if I’m hit from behind.
When I say the guy behind me was mad, he was fucking LOSING it. He was screaming, he was flailing his arms, he was beating on his steering wheel, he was honking a shit ton.
He eventually just cut the lane beside me and the person next to me, just to get into the 30 feet of empty space in dead slow traffic. No idea why he thought this would somehow make any difference.
I honked at him several times just to fuck with him
There’s something like a spring effect, you should try to keep the same distance between the car in front of you and the one behind you, watch this it’s very informative: youtu.be/iHzzSao6ypE
Most importantly you should do your best to drive at one, single, steady, speed, and not stop and go. In civilised countries that kind of thing gets taught in driving lessons, three or four people acting correctly can dissolve a traffic jam.
We (United States) were taught this in 1987 when I took drivers ed at school. When my oldest got her license there was no longer a driver’s ed course. Must have cost more than the conservatives wanted to pay.
It’s better to build multi million dollar football stadiums and buy sports equipment than it is to actually give an education, obviously. Why else would we send them to school everyday?
(sidenote: the real solution to traffic is getting all the reluctant and unnecessary drivers to not take the car during rush time. I.e. providing viable alternatives to driving & the freedom to choose the means by which to go from point A to point B)
As if … Where’s he going? That many feet changes nothing. I live in a city famous for leaving a lot of space between cars, there are memes about it. So for this thread I’ll explain a couple of why’s:
Me personally , it became a habit when car jackings became a possibility. A less easy target mentality.
Insurance is crazy high here and so ,as you mentioned, the not being forced into the car ahead of you .
There have been multiple shootings in road rage in this city over the last year. Everyone kinda wants space and eyes on others or what may be happening, room to react or move. Also not into riding a cars bumper and maybe causing another incident.
I’m sure there are as many reasons as there are people, but these are the obvious ones.
My father taught me to leave enough space in front of me in case of being hit, but also in case I need to get out of the line for some reason. I’ve had to get out of line a number of times over the years due to accidents. I have 3 routes I can take to get to work, so once I realize there’s an accident I can just turn around and go another way. Works out well, but sure does piss off people behind me sometimes.
Most importantly, you need enough space to account for your reaction speed + the time your vehicle takes to brake. On slow traffic that’s one or two cars but as you approach highway speeds it’s like 15, which no one observes. And higher during snow or rain.
Escalators are still stairs, and drives me mad when people simply stand still on them. So do they expect the same shit when they get home and stand at the bottom of their stairwell?
Escalators are moving stairs that can suck you into the gears underneath and turn you into ground meat if you get caught in the teeth at the end of them. Doesn’t surprise me that people are hesitant to walk on them as you’re much more likely to trip and fall walking on stairs vs standing. Better to let them safely carry you up or down, then safely step off at the end.
It’s unreasonable to think that people who stand on escalators also stand on stairs and wait for them to move. Not only do you not understand my comment, you don’t even understand your own. Good luck out there!
Escalators are a form of elevator and not stairs. They were put there because stairs would be to long or too steep for stairs and a traditional elevator has less capacity. I also believe that the general recommendation is that you don’t walk in elevators because it creates a significant amount of risk of accidents while saving an insignificant amount of time.
Thank you for your great reply, but without providing sources to your claims, I'm going to assume you're simply talking out of your ass and spreading misinformation.
This article makes it clear that standing on both sides of the escalator increases general flow of people though the escalator and when they ask the company managing the new york escalators they say that it is their recommendation that people stand on the escalator because that is safer.
In conclusion, standing on elevators is both faster and safer.
Is there anything else you want to know, you smug cunt?
I’m not surprised you’re downvoted because 90% of people stand lazily on escalators from my experience. But you and I know better.
If walking up a flight of stairs is too difficult that you have to let the motors do all the work then maybe you should think about getting more exercise
Some people say ‘stand right, walk left’ but that doesn’t work in america because people are not only too dense but also too fat for that to work. So if you stand still, you’re in the way
I know I’m being condescending but idc so downvote me all you want.
Where are you in America that people are so fat that you can’t get past them on an escalator? Because I’m in Indiana, home of the giant deep-fried pork tenderloin, and people aren’t that fat here.
Behaving rationally in a society means taking into account other people, as that’s literally what a society is. This is irrational and selfish behavior.
A perfectly rational agent should choose behavior that works when other agents apply the same behavior.
If everyone uses her strategy, the queue can only get shorter if there’s exactly one person left in the queue, but it gets longer each time someone joins it.
In an idealized world where everyone can instantly teleport, this doesn’t technically reduce the throughput of the queue, however it does still increase its size unnecessarily. (and in the real world it also decreases throughput, potentially by a significant amount if the queue is physically long enough)
Even granting that she doesn’t care about anyone else, the strategy is still slower for her even if she’s the only one using it.
Judging from the picture, she will lose at least a few seconds when the person in front of her leaves the queue and she still has to walk the remaining distance to the front of the queue.
For a more extreme example, imagine the queue is a kilometer long. Assuming everyone before her shuffled along like the average queue enjoyer, she would now be one person-width away from the goal had she shuffled along with them.
If she used her “perfectly rational” strategy instead, she would now have to walk a full kilometer which, being very generous to her, would cost her an additional 12 minutes.
Perfectly rational behavior, if your only objective is to annoy others.
(there is perhaps an argument in favor of some variant of her strategy, if there is a high time/effort/opportunity cost associated with starting and/or stopping, but I think realistically this will rarely if ever be the case in an airport security queue)
Well put. There’s just something about airports that turns off people’s cooperative reasoning abilities. I’m sure I’m guilty in numerous ways too, but when I really focus on the little things that people do with complete disregard for others, it just makes me feel like they simply don’t care about anyone else but themselves. Most of the time I’m sure I’m just being uncharitable, but other times…!
I think you’re there with the last bit of your comment. The goal isn’t to only move once, the goal is to minimise stops and starts. If everyone does this is a self sorting system. If someone has the rule “try to only move forward once every x minutes (unless you are at the front or the queue overflows)” then the queue gets into a rhythm that works.
In a queue like this there is extra effort in picking up your bags and stopping so the worst case scenario is everyone moving exactly as space is available.
Problem is that “unless the situation doesn’t allow it” means you have to constantly be aware of how the situation is evolving, so you’re trading “move your bag a couple extra times” for “stay hyper aware of the environment and ensure you’re not starting a chain reaction of assholery” cause that can happen real quick at an airport.
I have agreed with that first line of yours for a long time. Some of the behaviors that seem the most asshole-ish in other people are those that both would cause chaos if everybody did it, and are easy to avoid or fix.
I guess that’s why even mundane things like this lady in line or shitty parking make people stand out is such a bad way.
Nah, move your ass forwards. It’s no different to you right there in that point in the line.
But at the back of the line its no longer people queuing in the barriers, they have started making up their own queue which has now branched off in two directions and new people arent sure which branch to join. Other people are trying to get to something on the other side of these queues and have to squeeze past people.
I get the logic, and it’s quite a good point if you have unlimited space for the queue, but stop being so entitled and move your stinky ass up the queue.
You can’t even see the line behind the lady that is stopped. We have no perspective here. Looks empty from this specific angle, but what’s behind her in the line? There could be hundreds of people for all we know.
She’s not on trial, there’s no punishment for judgement. We are discussing that the situation that is being caused is non-optimal for society and you should tend to move forward with the line at a comfortable pace.
There’s very little upside for leaving that giant gap, and quite a bit of downside if you don’t pay perfect attention to the full situation in front and behind (which you aren’t doing if you’re staring at your phone…)
Another point is the perception of progress. We all enjoy a progress bar that gradually fills up to one that sits at 20% then jumps to 100. It reduces our anxiety.
I once got berated by a Costco employee for ducking under the queue ropes instead of zigzagging my way through. There was no one in the queue. Sometimes society needs more logical thinking.
That happened to me at the Atlanta airport. Security person saw and told me “I’ll send you to the back of the line!”, I said “I AM the back of the line!”
Did you touch or move the queue ropes when you did this? Cause I worked at a movie theatre in the past and while we didn’t really care if people ducked under the ropes without touching them, if they pushed them up or unhitched them or grabbed them too hard then they often broke them because they didn’t realize how delicate they could be, especially if they’re older or already damaged but not quite damaged enough to replace yet. They would also often push them out of line a little bit, which adds up after a while and forced us to re-adjust them, which is kind of annoying when we keep having to fix them over and over again after busy times of the day. So after a point we just told people not to duck under them or try to go through them at all, just to avoid the possibility of them fucking the queue lines up in some way because we couldn’t exactly predict who would or wouldn’t touch something while attempting it. Obviously one person isn’t going to do much but you wouldn’t have been the only person who would have tried it that day by a long shot.
I just ducked under. Maybe my back brushed against it when I did so but that was it. They were steel chains too if I remember well so it’s not like I was going to break something. She claimed that “I could have gotten hurt” which is complete nonsense and I’m pretty sure that she made it up.
There is a certain type of person who when they see someone do something that is different from what they are used to they feel the urge to self-righteously stop it and will invent all sorts of excuses to justify themselves doing so. They’re the kind of people who call the cops on kids playing in a skate park. I’m pretty sure that was one of them.
But shes still right. Assuming that everyone is still in the queue area and not overflowing into the general concourses, it does not matter when she moves. The forward progress is an illusion if youre still queued after you move.
I think it’s just people want the illusion of the line moving so they can feel safe of reaching the end of the line, cause at the airport you want to the quickest way to your gate.
Yeah, it makes sense, but thats a emotional choice. You do that because it feels good, it seems productive. I think this is pointing out shuffling forward 2ft every 2 minutes is actually more of a waste of effort then going 40ft in 20 min. You need to exert some common background attention that we all just got used to doing with the shuffle way. The “leap forward” method is likely more mechanically efficent in a minute sense.
Emotional and rational get damn chummy when my missing my flight becomes a risk. I seek to eliminate unknowns to 0, such that I am SURE I’ll make my flight. Each checkpoint is an unknown of trouble, and until I’m papered and present at my gate I am seeking choices to arrive there.
The post isn’t about a solution. It’s about how we think and how we act. About which of those things we do are based on what makes sense, or what people think makes sense.
She could cause folks to ito be in the queue lanes, and be left in the “open walking space” of the terminal, thus materially decreasing the usage of folks not trying to join that line.
The forward progress is an illusion if youre still queued after you move.
Only if you count the amounts in the queue; if you count the positions, you’re still making progress because you have materially moved closer to the finish line: you’ll spend more time in the queue being “closer” than “farer” to the finish.
But why would you do that? She’s in front of you in the queue, so unless you have priority, human etiquette dictates that you should wait for your turn.
Skipping the line is just being mean to the people you skipped.
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