I shined a torch in my wife’s sleeping face this morning at 5am.
I didn’t mean to, I was looking for my ear tunnel, it had fallen out in the night and I didn’t want to go a day at work with a cats arsehole for an ear lobe.
I looked for my spare ones first, I really didn’t want to be that guy, I’m a night person.
Anyway I sent her this and she had to remind me I was a bastard.
I was a big fan of the body modification scene when I was younger. Now I’m approaching my 40 my piercings have all been removed except these ear stretches.
When I had housemates in the past, I respected this until 9AM, at that point, unless you actually have a reason to stay up past 1AM (for an 8hr sleep), then I’m afraid then it sucks to be you and I’ll just be normal amounts of quiet.
Totally reasonable to have other sleep schedules requiring quiet at certain times of the day, just I think it’s on the person asking for something non-standard (and currently it is a social norm to be awake and asleep at certain hours, right or wrong) it’s on the person to actually communicate it, rather than expect it.
Is it only rude to slam a door in someone’s face between 9am and 6pm? Consideration shouldn’t have hours. If anything, I would say doing something inconsiderate would be the person with the onus of asking. Hey, does it bother you when I turn the music up all the way at 7am when I make breakfast? … yes. Yes it does. If they tell you its fine then it is on them. Still rude, but they were asked.
I’m saying opening and closing doors normally (still makes some sound unless you’re being very, very careful) using the kitchen normally to prepare food (still makes some sound).
Does this seem rude when no indication of other needs is given? If yes, that’s my issue with people in this thread, the assumption that night should be treated the same as day by default, and you’re a dick otherwise.
Normal amounts of quiet. It’s not like I ran around the house banging pots and pans.
I feel like Lemmy really self-selects for “night-owls” (people have different chronotypes sure, but like, if you’re staying up to 3,4 AM, then you have sleep issues, it’s not a chronotype to be up this late. Humans aren’t nocturnal. And I say this as someone who has had sleep issues where I have been up that late. You know what I never did, complained that my housemates closed the door a normal amount at 10AM and made a normal amount of noise at that time)… that feel hard done by.
Like, it’s called getting along with others, it’s something you need to learn when living in a sharehouse.
I went to bed at 5-6 am for a few years. I didn’t have sleep issues whatsoever. Slept the same amount and felt just as rested (more if anything) as now where I have a “normal” sleep schedule.
There’s also people that, yknow, work at night, whose sleep might start at 9.
I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong to not limit yourself greatly on what u do based on if someones sleeping as long as you avoid very loud things (a pleasant fuck you to my mom (love you) for insisting she needs to vacuum at like 11 every second day when I had that sleep schedule), but your reasoning is just bull.
See I actually agree with you on this, to a point, that if you’re working night shift and your mum knew about it, then it’s pretty unfair to be doing the vacuuming at that time each day if she knows you’re going to bed that late.
If you’re just deciding/feeling it’s better for you to be going to sleep that late with no other reasons, then yeah, I do think it was on you to come to some other compromise with your mum about when she can vacuum. In the early afternoon after you wake up for example.
It’s the “other people should work around me by default” attitude that I take issue with. When the standard is be awake during the day (right or wrong), then I think it’s on the people asking for deviation from that to ask for accommodation.
You seem to only be accounting for people who are like yourself. It’s hard to picture other people’s minds because we only have ours to go by, but it’s important to acknowledge that other minds work very differently from our own.
I was a habitual night owl in my twenties. Went to sleep at dawn and woke up around noon. I didn’t have sleep issues, I was always incredibly rested and full of energy.
Now I sleep at 10 and wake up around 6. I have less energy but I am now a morning person. I can easily get up at 4 for occasions.
You’re making judgements on others based on your own biased view, one that only sees it your way. That’s why you’re being down voted.
People should be mindful of noise at all times, but if it’s late in the morning, I feel it’s unreasonable to have an expectation of tip-toeing around without bringing it up and asking if you can come to some sort of an arrangement.
It’s the expectation that I think is the problem.
Whereas the expectation that daytime is for normal activity is not unreasonable. Why? Because that is the way it has been and still is. It doesn’t mean it’s “good”, or “fair”, but it is the current standard and if you want to deviate from it it should be up to you to say something to get what you need.
We have norms and standards in society that people do expect, these different in different parts of the world. Bring a gift when you meet parents for the first time (east Asia), don’t be loud at night (Nachtruhe, Germany). If you want to deviate, then yes, it’s on you and communicate.
As I’ve repeated in other comments, if there is some reason someone needs to sleep at “unstandard” hours, then I’m not suggesting they just deal with it and suffer.
What I am suggesting is that it shouldn’t be taken for granted that day time should be treated the same as night, and that staying up late should mean others need to tip-toe around during the day without asking (unless there is some other reason, or you ask for it to be different because XYZ)
I’m quite happy waking up at 3pm and going to bed at 6am. To be honest, I think anyone waking up at or before 10am and going to bed before 12am is a weirdo who has sleep issues and I just can’t respect that. If I make too much noise when you’re trying to sleep, well, that’s just too bad innit?
As mentioned in other threads, it’s just the expectation that bothers me.
If you’re deviating from a social norm (and right or wrong, it is still a social norm), I think it’s on you to communicate it properly.
Again, people should be reasonably quiet at all times, but it is unfair to have the expectation that the day will be as quiet as the night without prior discussion.
I live a full 100 meters from a bar but every fucker leaving will scream at full volume as they are leaving. I’m so desensitized from women screaming at night that I could miss a genuine rape outside my front door and not even roll over.
Drunk people find it hilarious to shout and scream at night. It’s just drunk people things, if you ever live near a bar in a gentrified and popular area you’ll understand
I owned one and conveniently had an apartment above it in the past.
With that perspective I tried keeping it not too noisy. Speakers facing in a way to prevent noise pollution to the outside, less bass on everything too. Central speakers also get to be louder while speakers close to the windows are not as loud. It’s not ideal but it’s much better than being entirely careless.
The customers at least tend to not be noisy unless it’s karaoke night. They have some common decency where I live.
I went to an Airbnb in Milano, in which in the middle of it’s block was literally a night club. Literally block residents and people who come to party enter and exit the same block door.
However, I didn’t hear anything, they soundproofed the hell out of this place, and the culture isn’t loud.
That’s almost as bad as the geniuses that build luxury properties right next to race tracks, then petition to have the race tracks shut down for lowering property values.
Might be a regional thing, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a new church built in my lifetime. The only churches I see closing down are the ones in small towns that don’t have the population to maintain it anymore.
I’m curious, do you see a trend in the denomination of these pop-up churches?
I imagine it’s “regional” by the meaning that entire countries have them behaving in a similar way, but it’s different from one country to another.
Anyway, I live in a 60 years-old city, so there are no centenary churches here :) yet they are still mostly older than the average for my country. There are entirely pop-up denominations that appear, annoy the hell out of friends and relatives that I have in other cities, then close down and disappear so that nobody remember their names anymore.
Restaurants turn into bars, bars turn into clubs. This can happen in the span of months in some cases.
Also some people may have bought during covid when there were no bars, some others may not be able to afford much else within commuting distance of their work.
Yes. The stimulants used have a side effect of basically being turbocharged coffee… That’s the best way I can describe it.
I’ve been in prescription ADHD meds for more than a year and after forcing myself out of bed long enough to shove my medication down my face hole, within an hour, of that, it becomes impossible for me to get to sleep for at least 10-12 hours, even if I’m fully acclimatized to my dose.
Once when I neglected to take meds for over a month straight (pretty significant depression after a job loss, I’m ok now), the first time I started back on my medication, I was wired for at least 20 hours after taking my normal dose. Messed up my sleep pretty badly, but I got back on the horse right after and things calmed down a lot.
Since getting onto this prescription, I haven’t had any issues staying awake, and usually as the meds wind down (wear off) near the end of the day, I can get to sleep at a reasonable time.
It’s a stimulant, so that’s not really surprising.
See our house is totally opposite, I get up early, take myself downstairs feed the pets and have a nice quiet morning. My wife will arrive at bed at 1am, throw the bedroom light on, rattle all the drawers for PJ’s, loudly demand I wake up so I can watch whatever Facebook video she’s been watching and announce we should have a serious conversation about where we should book for holidays this year.
When I complain, it’s 1am and I gotta get up at 6:30 suddenly I’m the reason we never talk anymore…
If your marriage is worth it to you, a consider getting on her schedule somehow. Some people just don’t think about that shit. I started waking up before my ex because she was complete chaos every morning. She’d scream and throw things around. She was ultimately diagnosed with BPD right after we had a major crash and burn.
The girl I’m with now is the opposite. She’s calm, considerate, and an all around amazing partner. There are things she don’t think about though. She loudly looks for her pajamas too (she don’t turn the damn light on thank goodness) but I know she cares for me and considers me because she does so much to show it.
She wakes me up to talk too, but we’re roughly on the same schedule. It bugs me when she does, but it legit doesn’t bother her a bit so if I complained she wouldn’t even remotely understand why I was complaining. It’s no big deal to her to wake up and go right back to sleep.
Sometimes you have to make big changes for the sake of your marriage. Some people can work on opposite schedules and get along fine. Some people can’t.
I wouldn’t wish divorce on a modern day Hitler. It was hands down the worst experience of my life. I don’t regret it now because I’m happier now than I’ve ever been. I’m with someone who I work well with and who I love on a level I didn’t even know was possible (as cheesy as that sounds, I’ve never been happy to do things for anyone else like I do for her). She’s someone I legitimately want to make sacrifices for. If I had to go through that shit again though, I don’t even know if I could. I might check out early or just start walking and never look back.
Think back to why you married your wife. I’m telling you, once it’s done you will and it won’t be any fun.
Just hearing my ex talk just about drove me up the wall though haha. It did from the very beginning too. She was just cool as hell and an amazing artist. I admired her when I thought about her, just couldn’t handle her when I was around her. She was so arrogant and certain that she was the best thing on the planet, which was really just her insecurity talking and playing confident somewhat, but god I couldn’t stand it. I legit think she was one of the best writers the world has ever known, but so did she and good god.
Idk man, sounds to me like his wife is very inconsiderate, or unaware that some people are deeply asleep at 1am. This behavior should not regularly happen between people who respect each other and clearly communicate their needs. Maybe they can find a different solution than him changing his entire schedule.
Anyway, I just wanted to browse memes while taking a dump. Strange how these internet conversations come to be.
I tried my whole life to get up early, one day I just gave up. Started my own company, bought a house - now I live and work like nature made me. No, I wear clothes, it’s just the sleep. Btw it’s interesting when you’re hiring how many people are like that and love the hours. I can recommend that to every night person.
Most of the startups I’ve worked for dont have any of their meetings until nearly lunch time to account for the fact that most programmers stay up late
sure it’s a lack of self control, if i had better self control i could force myself to go to bed at 21:00 and lie there for 2 hours until i fall asleep out of tortured boredom, and then i could force myself out of bed at 07:00 despite my limbs feeling like lead and every movement bringing me abject misery and pain!
I had the opposite experience a few years ago, I am very much a night owl.
I did a job that required me in the office for 7am for a few months, I was noticeably less effective for the whole duration, I was just slower at everything and was basically constantly tired. Switched back to getting in for 9-10am and the difference was night and day, as basically I was back to my old levels of effectiveness after a day or two.
I just think I’m one of these people that cannot adapt, or at least if I do, it comes with a cost.
I’m a night owl and even early morning acclimatization hasn’t helped.
There were a few months that I had to do 12.5 hour shift work where I had to be at work at 5:30 AM and I was miserable the entire time. It’s hard to adjust when your natural cycle is like 10 am to 2 am.
We did week about shifts. That meant earlies for a week, nights, then lates. Every week you had to change your sleep pattern.
I liked earlies to nights because long weekend (finish 11am Fri start 10am Mon) and a fun “adaptation” that required me to stay up as late as I possibly could on Sunday night. I’d drink, smoke and play games with US chums (UK here) until 3 or 4am and then sleep as late as possible.
It fucking sucked but I did it for a good decade. Then managed to wangle permanent 6-2 shift.
It was a revelation.
Suddenly I had a regular sleep pattern. It was hard to train, but I managed to get a good 6 hours a night most nights. Which was good, I’ve always suffered insomnia for lots of reasons, so I managed to become one of those people that survives on minimal sleep. More sleep was amazing.
I’ve kind of got it down nowadays, thanks in no small part to some pills I was given for my restless legs. They make me drowsy, so if I take them at the right time I can force a sleep pattern, and they stop me kicking my wife up the arse when I’m asleep.
Back to your point after a trip through the weeds, I now do 2 week late shift and 2 week early shift, there’s a permanent night shift at this new place.
When I’m on the early shift I wake up at 5am on the Saturday and Sunday without fail. Once I forgot to set my alarm for work and woke up a minute before it should have gone off. Years of the early shift have honed my wake up time to a knife edge.
Sometimes on the weekend I can’t get back to sleep for various reasons, so it’s not an uncommon sight to find me gaming on my PC at 7am on a Sunday morning. I don’t want to be there, but it’s kinda nice having the peace and quiet of being a night owl with the sun up and a sleep cycle behind instead of in front of you.
There’s actually a genetic bias on it. It can be overridden, but you’ll always feel a bit burnt out from it. It also changes with age (teenagers are the latest, getting earlier as you age.
I’m the same way. If I fall asleep at 10pm but wake up at 6am I’m absolutely miserable for the first hour, but if I go to sleep at 2am and wake up at 10am I’m refreshed and in a good mood most of the time. I’m 30 and it hasn’t gotten any better with age yet.
I had to get up at 05:30 during my teenage years to get to school in time, which was horrible. If I slept in, I could easily sleep til noon or even later. Now that I’m older, I usually wake up around 08:00, even on weekends.
I said upvoted post on kbin. Not posted on kbin. I might be wrong, but I think I see only kbin upvotes and downvotes. Right now I see 6 upvoted and 1 downvote to the post you have replied. How much do you see?
What’s wild is that you’ll see them get a night job, or have to stay up late on vacation a few times and they’ll be 100/10 miserable af. Never adapt to it, and still keep believing iTs aLl SeLf DiScIpLInE
Well what it ‘proves’ to them is that mankind is supposed to follow the exact same routine that works for them. My Dad was forever saying “Early to bed, early to rise makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.” Died when he was 45.
He didn’t have a ton of money certainly. It’s fair to say he wasn’t a complete idiot but I think that even the example I’ve given so far argues against any claim to sagacity.
My dad is still among us, even though I grew up with his take on it, loosely translated:
Early awake, early asleep. That brings health to every weeb.
It’s possible that he already translated it from English (your dad’s saying or an unknown variation of it), and that I’ve now translated it back to English, for each translation moving a bit further away from the original meaning in order to keep it rhyming. (I wrote “weeb” to make it rhyme, my dad’s version said “boy”.)
If you’re sleeping off a night shift and I’m up early I’ll be quite as a church mouse. But if you’re just laying in bed for no reason then you can deal with the noise of whatever I need to get done
Never worked nightshifts?
The cleaning crew at the hotel on my last business trips are always extremely noisy. But I’ve just hit the bed after my shift, some breakfast and a beer.
Would be nice to at least once get 6 full hours of sleep…
I have not but I simpathise for you. I tried to word my reply to indicate that there were cases that didn’t follow my rule of thumb… Cases like yours it makes sense to wake up… Frankly whenever.
You shouldn’t disturb other people whether they’re asleep or awake. Buying a pair of slippers or flip flops for indoors and not slamming doors and cupboards isn’t exactly a monumental ask at any time of day.
I’m very confused by this statement. Does nobody in Belgium really go to bed before 10? If you knew your neighbor had to be up by 4am every day and had a child, and knew they had to go to bed by 8, would you not try to be nice if they were nice in kind?
Only because rich sociopaths decided that it was better to force the serfs into working at the same times than it was to allow people to work around the clock according to their own sleep schedules. Before you try to tell me that this isn’t a rich people thing, you absolutely can’t convince that it didn’t start that way. Rich people’s money may not trickle down, but their bad opinions and beliefs sure as hell do.
Right, but they’re not going to do their job very well if they’re sleepy. Over time evolution is going to select for the nightwatchers who don’t get sleepy and overlook the shadows in the night, leading to humans who are comfortable being awake at night, and humans who are comfortable being awake during the day. The day humans get food, make clothes, etc for the night humans who make sure the farmers, gatherers, etc are safe when they’re asleep.
Edit: I wonder if there’s a correlation between being ADHD, being a night owl, and gun ownership. ADHD is speculated to be a residual evolutionary trait from when humans were hunter gatherers due to a typically heightened awareness; I wonder how often ADHD humans found themselves as the nightwatch as humans graduated to farming.
I’ve been on night watch. Yes you aren’t as alert when you’re sleepy but that’s just something you have to deal with.
It’s interesting theory that there’s evolutionary nocturnal humans but I’m not sure how concrete that is. In any case, humans being diurnal isn’t contingent on absolutely everyone being like that. It’s just the default with most being like that.
Morning people are courtious and quiet for the ones sleeping late. On the other hand when a night person has to wake up early, they’ll wake everyone else as well
I’m a night person but proper sleep only works at night so I had to become an early waking very quiet night person.
Maybe instead of being exclusively for one group over others, our society could kinda be for everycritter?
[Sarcasm, though not necessarily directed at the person I’m replying to] Nah, why would we want a liveable world when we can just demand that everyone be a damn automaton that exists to work all day.
Oh fuck no, you should see the difference between me and my girlfriend when the other is asleep, I used to work night shift and she wouldn’t wake up when I came back at 4am even if we lived in a 500sq ft apartment, but she sure as hell would wake me up at 7 am by making breakfast and coffee!
I had a roommate that loved pour over coffee in the morning. That in itself isn’t the issue; she taught me how to use her V60 and it actually makes pretty good coffee.
No, the issue was she ground her beans fresh. Every morning, at 6AM. Know what the loudest sound in the universe is? An electric coffee grinder at 6AM.
lol Why the fuck is this the most downvoted reply? Did you all even read it, or did you count the score and prepare yourself for outrage? There’s literally nothing wrong with what was said. ‘Night people struggle with morning behavior more than morning people.’ Sounds like a valid perspective, esp if this person lives with/is a courteous morning person.
Then there’s my fucking cunt of a housemate who lkves on the floor above me that’s the loudest mother fucker on the face of the earth and fucking stomps around until 1am every night and opens and slams close every fucking draw and door in his room, and re arrnafes his furniture every night, then gets up at 6.30 in the morning so he can stomp around some more, hack up his lungs as loudly as humanly possible and slam every door in the fucking house before leaving for work exactly when my alarm goes off, specifically so I can’t have a single good night sleep ever.
In my experience people who are this utterly devoid of consideration are not only unable to change, they will get angry at you for suggesting they’ve done something wrong.
Yeah I can’t really describe it but this guy lives in his own little world. He’s a friendly bloke but just does not give the slightest shit about anything that doesn’t affect him personally.
From the sounds I hear above me, I’m fairly convinced the upstairs neighbors have a bowling alley set up in one of the bedrooms. The people below play music that’s so loud that they must be deaf and their dog barks for literal hours when they leave. Not to mention the dipshits with gas-powered leaf blowers pushing dust around pretty regularly regardless of if there are any actual leaves.
Leaf blowers piss me off. They are good in some circumstances but usually it’s a neighbour that just blows their shit on to the street. Use a brush and pick it up you selfish prick.
You must live below the people in the apartment next to me.
Why are people like this. Really. I want a serious, well thought out answer from people who act like this. I would be fucking appalled if I found out people had been losing sleep because of me. Or they weren’t able to concentrate when working from home, or had to get a bluetooth converter for their tv to connect headphones because otherwise they can’t even enjoy tv with all the stomping, banging, furniture moving, and door slamming. I would feel so fucking guilty and especially embarrassed for coming off as such an entitled piece of shit. I literally cannot comprehend that there are people who know they’re disturbing others, in their own homes, day and night, and they either don’t give a shit, or they get mad at the person they’re torturing for asking them nicely to keep it down. Or both. And yes I have brought it up with my landlord countless times. They could give a fuck. The next step is to contact the city and have them come in with a decibel meter or something. In my state, landlords must ensure “peaceful enjoyment” for tenants. But I’d have to prove it’s over a certain level, then deal with filing a complaint and/or civil court or whatever, so nothing ever changes.
This is one situation where I think an eye for an eye is perfectly reasonable, because after living through over a year of daily constant noise, I think my next door neighbors aren’t deserving of a single moment of peace from now on.
Everyone seems to have a story like this, which makes me think that we might actually be just as loud as the people we complain about without realizing it. Think about it. It’s not like we can actually hear what we sound like from the floor below while we are “softly walking around” upstairs.
I got told we were like this once. Mle and my wife would literally tiptoe around after, carefully close doors, live in a constant state of worry, and still the next morning the guy below would say “you’re literally shaking paintings off the walls!” My wife was physically afraid to run into him after a bit.
At the time I thought the apartment must have paper thin walls that apparently I couldn’t hear through, but now I think he was just an ass. Living off self righteous anger.
YMMV. You have situations like the one you describe, and you have situations like mine. There’s a unit down the hall that keeps everyone on the damn floor awake. There’s a nice dude who lives there and raises his grandkids, and there’s also the kid’s father. The kids and the grandfather are great. They’re respectful, kind, and very friendly.
The kid’s father has this “fun” habit of sleeping with complete randos. You do you, yadda yadda. I try to mind my own business.
He makes it EVERYONE’S business. Every single time he gets dumped, he throws an enormous hissy fit. Screaming incoherently, banging on every door in the hallway, stomping about, etc. He doesn’t work, yet he throws a hissy fit when he has to watch his own kids because the grandfather has to work. It doesn’t matter if it’s 2am or 2pm, there’s a decent chance that that guy is pissed at something. It wasn’t uncommon to see him crying by the front doors.
It’s a great personal reminder to never start doing hard drugs. I only know that the guy does hard drugs because of the grandfather was venting to me about it. I can’t even begin to tell you how many times the cops have been called on him by other people.
Consider that smokers exist. The entire premise of being a smoker is that you damage your own health and the health of everyone around you. It is not at all different.
I do the same thing except I can’t stand silence so I play thunderstorms in the background so I hear the thunderstorm through the headphones instead of silence
I do the same thing except I can’t stand silence so I play ASOIAF theory livestreams. Thank you Alt Schwift X and Glidus, now I sleep much better and I also understand that Tywin Lannister is secretly the Dusky Woman (and Tyrek Lannister is a horse).
I do that in the morning sometimes but it doesn’t help when he stomps around and slams doors I shakes the fucking house like zues himself is having a temper tantrum.
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