be_excellent_to_each_other, (edited )
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

Ah, the block list is going to go up a lot as I read this thread, I'm guessing.

If you aren't black, and you think you have a reason (or are trying to find one) where it's OK to say the N word in a non-academic context (and maybe even then), or you think you have a valid opinion on whether black folks should use it, or you think that black folks using it somehow justifies your use of it, you're either willfully ignorant of the depths to which that word has been used to dehumanize, and thus is indeed worthy of unique treatment, or you're a bigot, and likely both.

Edit: Not as many folks falling over themselves to find the corner case where it should be OK for them as I expected. gg fediverse, you aren't quite as shitty as r****t yet.

IHaveTwoCows,

💯 the people who say this also say we can’t restrict the free speech of Nazis

Thranduil,

Saying you cant say a word purely based on skin color is text book racism because ti discriminates on skin color race and ethnicity. Also saying that anyone using ut just want to be edgy or offensive is also a bad take since they might just not have american culture values

TimewornTraveler,

being ignorant of African American history and African diaspora in general is not really a great excuse. but that’s why people in other parts of the world might get your excuse. it’s still pretty awful, but maybe not as awful as living in America and still being ignorant of it. or any country with a history of + hand in African diaspora, really. so like >50% of the world.

oh and if you think NOT saying slurs is racist then I think you might be one of the ignorant ones.

Thranduil,

I dont think I understand your last point

Either way not everyone shares american values or definitions when it comes to words

TryingToEscapeTarkov,
Rosco,

I’m curious, is there another word that have the same taboo status as the n-word? I’ve never heard of another word that can only be uttered if you have the right shade of skin. What a stupid world we live in, seriously.

randon31415,

Y * * lo, r * d, and m* * * to skinned are also taboo, but you don’t see people with those skin colors using the terms and keeping it popular.

Rosco,

I have no clue what words are those supposed to be so yeah, you’re right.

randon31415,

One was a football team

SCB,

You censored the word “red?” I thought it was “retarded” lol

M is probably “mulatto” but what’s “y?”

randon31415,

Think Asian… and a color.

SCB,

Ahh ok the pattern follows too

intensely_human,

Yeah but I can use the word yellow all day without issue. Those words don’t share the cultural properties of the n word

HawlSera,

Faggot used to be a school yard insult but it’s being fast tracked to “The N Word for Gays”

Thranduil,

Is there a better lemmy server that dont censor words like snowflakes? It makes it hard to have genuine dialogues

BitsOfBeard,
@BitsOfBeard@programming.dev avatar

Try programming.dev. I don’t see any censoring.

HawlSera,

I have been trying to get on Lemmy NSFW because what I am on Lemm.ee wants to hide the porn from me.

But I can say what I am on right now doesn’t sense your words, I can say retard and faggot like it was the early 2000s all over again

Thranduil,

I think you just got censored

intensely_human,

Not in my view. All the words are there. What exactly are you seeing?

Thranduil,

Retard and removed. Unless you wrote removed

intensely_human,

I’m not seeing any censoring in this thread. I’m based out of lemm.ee and using wefwef web client to read.

Are you seeing certain words censored out?

Cethin,

I’m not speaking from any position of authority here, but I think it has more to do with being in the right culture, not the right skin color like some people imply.

There are urban white kids who grew up in the projects who use the same language as their black peers, and I think generally no one cares. However, when someone outside that culture uses that language, it’s not something they use for normal speech and there’s probably some other motivation behind it. It’s just like in a lot of people’s speech they say “bro” but it doesn’t mean brother. To people outside the culture it means black person, but they use it like others use “bro”. It doesn’t really mean anything.

Reiterating, I have very little experience with this. It’s just my observations. I’ve known black people who it’d be weird for them to use this language and seen white people who it’s just a normal part of their speech.

I_Has_A_Hat,

I don’t think it’s as removed from skin color as you think. If someone saw the white kids saying it and didn’t know they grew up in the projects, would they still not care? Conversely, if a bunch of black kids who grew up in an affluent household said it, would people be offended?

Cethin,

You’d likely know where they grew up by the manner of their speaking. The white kids from the projects are going to sound “urban” and the black affluent people are going to sound stereotypically “white”. I wouldn’t be offended (I’m white) but I would be surprised if the black people I know who do not use that language started using the n-word suddenly. It’s not a part of their normal language, so what caused them to suddenly start using it? Probably nothing good I would assume.

It also depends on the time and place. Those white kids from the projects would probably need to code switch when going to a job interview or something, for example, just like their black peers do. That language is context-dependents on whether it’s acceptable. It’s more than just being black.

KarmaTrainCaboose,

Maybe some well off black people wouldn’t use the word, but it certainly would not be acceptable for any white person to use it in any context. Even if they grew up in “the hood” it would, at the very least, be frowned upon for them to say it. In many places it would earn them an immediate beat down.

Rosco,

That makes a bit more sense if that’s a culture thing, but how do you define someone who belong in that culture? Is a black person born from a very wealthy European family still allowed to say it, even though he might have nothing to do with the culture? It just seems weird to me how you clearly define this, I mean even clearly defining what a black person is, is pretty much impossible.

Cethin,

The point is it isn’t clearly defined. It’s situational. Not all black people will or should say it, and some white people feel comfortable saying it and use it in situations where it doesn’t offend anyone. There is no “correct” race, skin tone, culture, etc where it’s always OK. There’s just situations where it’s OK for some people. I’m sure if you know it’s OK then you know it’s OK, and that’s the only time it’s OK. If you’re wondering if it’s appropriate, it probably isn’t.

PoopMonster,

There are exceptions, Puertoricans can say it all they want, just look at fat Joe.

Okashiikessen,

It’s called “reappropriation”, and there are words in other groups, such as the LGBT community, which are only considered “acceptable” when used by members of the in-group.

www.grammarly.com/blog/pc-and-reclaimed-words/

Rosco,

That’s fair, my only issue is clearly determining what makes someone a member of the group. I guess for LGBT it’s more clearly defined, but it becomes a lot harder to determine if you’re from X ethnicity or if you belong to Y culture (or I guess the hard part is to make people accept you in their club…)

Ookami38,

My guess is that the N word has pretty much no historical use outside of referring to darker skinned people in as derogatory of a way as possible. The F word for gays is about the only other one, unless you’ve got a British pal who smokes, but just about every other slur is either so obscure that it’s only heard rarely, or has other legitimate uses, so you have to apply context to figure out what the situation is. N word was almost always bad, until they decided to blunt the blade, so to speak, by adopting it as a part of their own vernacular.

intensely_human,

Voldemort

be_excellent_to_each_other,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

There's not another word with as lengthy a history rooted in dehumanization of the other, so the unique status shouldn't be surprising.

Trashcan,
Underwaterbob,

Unless you’re Korean. “Ni ga” (니가) literally means “you” in Korean. With the not-so-recent surge in popularity of Kpop globally, I know there’s been more than one outraged person accusing Korean rappers of racism for saying “you” in their own language.

Stamets,
@Stamets@startrek.website avatar

Russell Peters, a Canadian comedian, actually mentioned something similar in Mandarin years ago in one of his specials. Here he is talking about going to a KFC in Beijing.

Note: Russell is of Indian descent and uses a lot of racial jokes in both the entire special as well as this specific bit.

Raiderkev,

I worked a job where I’d often be driving people speaking Mandarin on conference calls. I had this exact thought while driving them around. I remember hearing this special around that time n laughing my ass off.

intensely_human,

Please tell me you worked for a combined ride share and conference call service called Zoomy Zoom

Raiderkev,

Ha, it was a black car company with a lot of corporate clients. Those people would be on calls all the time.

Underwaterbob,

That was pretty hilarious despite some jokes that definitely wouldn’t fly today. And were iffy then, too.

Stamets,
@Stamets@startrek.website avatar

Oh absolutely. I remember laughing at that when I was a very young teenager but was cringing just a little while rewatching it yesterday. It’s not nearly as bad as some other stuff but it’s a little yikes. Wondering if thats why I haven’t seen Russell Peters in over a decade.

Underwaterbob,

I just checked his Wikipedia, and it looks like he’s mostly been acting in some dubious looking comedy films with some TV on the side.

ILikeBoobies,

Or as League of Legends personality “LS” says

Just call people 니가 and they literally cannot punish you

assassin_aragorn,

Oh man I remember this in college. I was grabbing some stuff at a Walgreens and this Korean lady was on the phone saying that. When I got home I told one of my roommates and he was “No, no, they weren’t being really racist, that’s a common phrase in Korean!”

Incredibly unfortunate false cognate.

HawlSera,

It reminds me of a problem with Japanese let’s players, how they’ve been playing more and more Western games lately, who have been playing Grand Theft Auto V.

See in Japanese culture, onomatopoeia is a bigger thing, and it’s not uncommon for people to sing an onomatopoeia or for them to be accounted for in the dialogue for media, especially in anime.

So a notice actually had to be given to Japanese Grand Theft Auto fans to stop playfully singing the N Word (as is done at the end of the infamous Franklin Roast)

Many fans mistook it for a playful onomatopoeia and just began singing it on stream in the most innocent way possible.

There are compilations of famous Japanese Vtubers doing this and it is as adorable as it is uncomfortable

mcqtom,

I still believe “and if you don’t know, now you know, boy-o” is a much better line.

FrostbyteIX,
@FrostbyteIX@lemmy.world avatar

Black guy here:

I give all you motherfuckers the Nigga Pass. I hereby bestow you all the title of Honourary Niggaz.

Hobo, (edited )
skqweezy,

A quick note, YouTube started adding tracking into the URLs that are connected to ur account, if you want to remove these just remove the question mark and everything after it, then you have a clean URL

Idk if you will call me a nerd, but I thought it might be interesting

Hobo,

Huh… I didn’t even realize I had signed in on youtube in this browser which is a bit weird too. Thanks for the heads up. Didn’t even notice.

skqweezy,

Yeah, it just fingerprints the user no matter what, that’s why the recommendation algorithm is still active when not logged in

t_jpeg,

Nice tap dancing.

archiotterpup,

Sweet! Now I can sing along to The Story of OJ in Harlem without any worries.

Katana314,

Was there a South Park episode where Tolkien had his allowance cut off, and made up for it by selling “Nigga Passes” to the school? Or did I dream that?

majormoron,

If not, that sounds like a good plotline. But honestly that sounds like something they would’ve done already

Raz,

Tolkien or Token? 😂

olicvb,
@olicvb@lemmy.ca avatar

Tolkien, he got his name retconned in the latests episodes. Pretty funny they basically go around and ask people what they thought his name was XD

EternalNicodemus,
@EternalNicodemus@lemmy.world avatar

Person here: I give you the homie badge

settoloki,

Another person here: and I gave you…let’s just say you should probably schedule a doctor’s visit.

doubletwist,

I’ve been given the pass by multiple black friends. I still can’t bring myself to actually use it.

BigBananaDealer,

when the time is right youll know. and have 2 passes so no ridicule

IHaveTwoCows,

Honkie here: I give you the Jive Turkey pass

intensely_human,

Autistic here. I give you all permission to use the word Dork whenever you want.

boatsnhos931,

It’s funny because we made the word powerful by forbidding certain people to say it yet the people it’s the most offensive to say it the most.

dangblingus,

It’s not a difficult concept. Just don’t say it. The word doesn’t have any power above the comradery between black people and hatred coming from a white person. The power dynamic is what’s important.

boatsnhos931,

I never said it was difficult, it’s just ironic. I don’t say it. Can you read or are you just saying what you are thinking? It has a lot of power, it can make a room erupt into a riot in an instant or cancel your whole career/life…Look at Morgan Wallen for example…

be_excellent_to_each_other,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

Look at Morgan Wallen for example…

Would have been so easy just to not say it, unless it was in his heart.

boatsnhos931,

I don’t agree or disagree with that but that has no relevancy. My brother in Christ, I was simply giving an example of how powerful the word is.

Bruno_Myers,
@Bruno_Myers@lemmy.world avatar

it’s almost like context is important or something. nah, couldn’t be that! nuance is for pussies

letsgocrazy,

Depends what you think the nuance is. Maybe the nuance is that a group of people are self-perpetuating negative stereotypes and have trapped themselves in a situation where they can never be criticised for it, and where the they consider protecting that toxic trait to be “winning”.

assassin_aragorn, (edited )

…or it’s the difference between using it in slang vs using it as an insult/perjorative. And people usually get that. The whole hard R thing represents that difference really well. There’s nothing wrong with taking back power over a slur. I can’t think of any better way to mock the people who use it, in fact.

Generally speaking, the group taking back the slur isn’t going to use it in a bad way, so it’s assumed they’re using friendly slang. If you aren’t part of that group, that basic assumption isn’t there. And considering how many racists are still alive today, that’s fair. For me, it’s also just basic respect. The slur isn’t used against me and probably won’t be. I have nothing to reclaim.

Look at it this way. Eminem has gone his entire rap career without saying it. He’s really good friends and colleagues with a lot of black people. Undoubtedly someone has “given him permission” at some point, and I imagine almost everyone he’s with would be fine with it, but he still doesn’t use it.

It’s ironic, actually. The people who understand this are also probably the people most likely to be “given permission”. And they don’t use it. That should tell you everything you need to know.

Edit: Correction, he had used it in the past, but he stopped quite a while ago. The general gist my point though is still the same, he’s built an incredible rap career without saying it much at all, and he clearly hasn’t seen the need to in a long time.

FilthyHookerSpit,

I agree with your message but Eminem has used it in his rap several times. I know it’s old and some of those were as backing vocals just nice to see that he realized it wasn’t right for him to say so he stopped.

assassin_aragorn,

Ohhhh gotcha. Let me edit my comment. Thanks for the correction!

jcdenton,
@jcdenton@lemy.lol avatar

Elmo should learn to listen to music without racial slurs

CluelessDude,

Would his favorite song be “Elmo in Paris” ?

assassin_aragorn,

Now this is a cover I want.

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

I once worked with a black dude who said the word all the time. One day we were talking hella shit about our boss and all kinds of n words flying out of his mouth, and I let one loose too, froze, and looked at him and he didn’t even give a shit.

assassin_aragorn,

People joke about the hard R but there really is a huge difference. And besides, people know there’s a big contextual difference. Homies aren’t going to mind if you’re just hanging out with them … probably.

eestileib,

“Brother” scans and rhymes, and (probably) won’t get your ass kicked.

BROMETHIUS,

You got that right, my ninja.

assassin_aragorn,

I think “homie” would work too actually, and feels more correct since it’s slang. Like:

“Got my brothers in Paris, and we goin gorillas”

Vs

“Got my homies in Paris, and we goin gorillas”

But I mean it just comes down to which sounds better to you.

eestileib,

Whoa whoa whoa easy on the hard-r “brother” there.

“Got my brothas in Paris…”

Leviathan,

Just say ninja, every time. All those songs can be fun songs about ninjas.

Brickhead92,

Ninja please!

BROMETHIUS,

Ninja, what?!

Klear,

Did you notice a sign out in front of my house that said “Dead Ninja Storage”?

No. I didn’t.

You know WHY you didn’t see that sign?

Why?

'Cause it ain’t there, 'cause storing dead ninjas ain’t my fucking business, that’s why!

Knives,

Go ninja, go ninja, go!

archiotterpup,

My ninja

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