wolfeh,
@wolfeh@lemmy.world avatar

And you

Who are on the road

Must have a code

That you can live by…

FlashMobOfOne,
@FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world avatar

Yep.

The Punisher would have Gotham cleaned up in a week, including corrupt cops.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar
OrnateLuna,

Hard to have a police if you kill all the corrupt cops

joneskind,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

Also it’s kinda stupid because it’s only true if you stop at the first killer.

surewhynotlem,

No no, if you kill two killers you become a double killer and the count stays the same.

joneskind,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

So by your logic… Would you become a triple killer by killing a double killer? Or a serial killer by killing a single serial killer? What about the trolley problem if the single guy is a serial killer then? I need answers

Death_Equity,

Due to the transitive property of murder, you have valid points.

But you always let the trolley kill the old person instead of the murderer; the murderer can stop murdering, the old person can only be stopped by killing them. In all other cases the murderer gets trolley’d.

surewhynotlem,

By the additive property of killing, you’d be a triple killer if you killed a double. Serial killers get the title by killing people all in a row. If they’re not in a row it doesn’t count.

The trick to the trolley problem is to yank the brake, jackknife the trolley cars, and hit everyone. This would make you a septuple killer, and earn the ‘Badass Moves’ achievement.

joneskind,
@joneskind@lemmy.world avatar

Ok, but what if I drive a Time Trolley to run over my own grandpa before he met my own grandma and kill Antoni Gaudi?

surewhynotlem,

I’m pretty sure this was an episode of Futurama, and you end up getting laid. Just don’t ask too many questions.

runeko,
@runeko@programming.dev avatar

“Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god.” — Jean Rostand

Source: quotepark.com/…/1749668-jean-rostand-kill-one-man…

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

That only counts if your killings are non-consecutive.

emeralddawn45,

If you kill 1000 killers the number of killers in the world decreases by 999 though.

Wogi,

And if you kill a million killers you’re not a killer anymore so it goes down by a solid million.

LesserAbe,

Was just going to say if total number of killers was the only important metric, you could have one person kill the rest of the killers. Then the meta-killer could kill all other people, just in case there are undiscovered killers hiding amongst them.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Light Yagami has left the chat

Honytawk,

But the amount of serial killers goes up

emeralddawn45,

Not if at least one of the killers was already a serial killer.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

At last, the nights will be safe from Count Chocula.

FluffyPotato,

I never got how batman is so popular, he’s just a crazy rich person with the most plot armor of any superhero. Also he could pretty much fix Gotham with his money but he instead spends it on gadgets to beat up mentally ill people.

wholeofthemoon,

You just described why it’s popular, no?

qarbone,

You don’t get why Batman is popular because you apparently have an Adam West-era perception of Batman

Rodeo,

The Dark Knight fits that summation perfectly.

WhiskyTangoFoxtrot,

The Adam West Batman was the only good Batman.

geophysicist,

It’s the American way

Why spend money fixing a problem when you can spend 5x money responding to it with violence

Honytawk,

Bruce Wayne already is pouring in billions into Gotham social services. He is like the billionaire we want but never get in real life. Some things just aren’t solved with money in their universe.

Batman isn’t just some crazy rich person. He is the world greatest detective since issue #1. Better than even Sherlock.

He can not only stand his own next to power houses like Superman, but he also plays an extremely crucial part of the Justice League: the information gatherer.

To say it in gaming terms, Batman isn’t DPS or tank. He is support. And damn good at it.

FluffyPotato,

That’s kinda what I mean as far as suspension of disbelief is, concerned: billions would fix any city unless you aren’t trying to fix anything and no matter how smart you are you won’t stand up to someone with actual superpowers without a metric ton of plot armor. Like a kryptonian, someone with the speed force or even just magic could vaporize batman with barely any effort.

Like the comics and other media where batman is up against just normal humans I can understand though still not my favourites but the ones where he’s against actual superpowers you usually get some bullshittery.

I’m no expert in comics by a long shot but that’s just been my impression when I did read some batman. The one where batman was actually a patient in arkham and all the villains were just doctors, guards and patients was my favourite though.

EncryptKeeper,

billions would fix any city

Tell that to Boston, which squandered 22 Billion dollars on a highway project disaster. Boston may have had a huge issue with corruption, but Gotham is literally cartoonishly corrupt and decrepit.

FluffyPotato,

Yea, that’s what I’m implying, batman is either corrupt, stupid or unrealistic when it comes to helping Gotham with money.

I kinda like the depiction of him as an out of touch billionaire(The type that thinks bread costs 50 bucks or doesn’t know people pay for housing) that just builds orphanages or something but has no idea on how to actually fix issues, just believes he does. That would be quite realistic actually.

Rooty,

The hyperfixation of modern Batman writers on Joker and the weird homoerotic overtones that come with it has become tiresome. There are much better villains in Batmans rouge gallery than some crazy clown

Darthjaffacake,

I think the reason they focus on it is because it’s really popular. I really enjoy all the stories where they have to fight each other but can’t finish it forever or where the joker gives up because he thinks that batman is gone. I think there’s a lot of room to explore what makes batman different from criminals using the joker and the strong parallels.

vaultdweller013,

Mr Freeze comes to mind.

Honytawk,

While there are some awesome Batman villains, I agree.

None of them have the dynamic the Joker does. The Joker is like the complete opposite of Batman. Chaotic, maniac, big smile, kills without a second thought.

All the Joker tries to prove is that anyone, no matter how just they think they are, no matter how steadfast they believe themselves to be, are only a single bad day away from turning into a monster like him.

He wants to push Batman over the edge, because Batman is the biggest challenge in that regard. If he can bend Batman, he can bend anyone. So if he can get Batman to kill him, his point is proven.

bouh,

Wow! Something smart in this thread! Bravo !

pinkdrunkenelephants,

The rest of the rogue’s gallery does in fact have better dynamics with Batman than Joker does.

Joker’s some lame ass loser who views supervillainy as a career while literally everyone else in the rogue’s gallery has better, more interesting reasons to do what they do. Joker’s doing evil for the lulz schtick is boring as fuck. He’s nothing but a boring-ass two dimensional Gary Stu and I am tired of being quiet about it.

The only interesting Joker we’ve had in the past twenty years is the Joaquin Phoenix one.

IHaveTwoCows,

But his point ISNT proven; Joker is dead and the absurd killings stop. Batman wouldn’t have been broken, he would’ve suddenly been aware of math.

I’m glad we got Death In The Family and Red Hood to tell us that yes, the writers know Batman is an idiot on this point and has reached his point of incompetence.

Anticorp,

But if you’re already a killer and you kill a killer, the number of killers in the world is reduced by one.

DragonTypeWyvern,

Exactly, so as soon as you kill one you have a moral obligation to pump your K/D as high as you can.

Promethiel,
@Promethiel@lemmy.world avatar

Hah. Absurdist on the surface, and yet if you were to imagine yourself forced to be a vigilante…

Good writing prompt 🤔

CurlyMoustache,
@CurlyMoustache@lemmy.world avatar

Soooo, I should start killing now in case I find my self in a Batman-situation?

1847953620,

Obviously

gamer,

Dexter Morgan is a better hero than Batman ever was

IHaveTwoCows,

Bruce cant math, and apparently cant make his computer do it either

IHaveTwoCows,

The world’s greatest detective is the world’s worth mathematician

spittingimage,
@spittingimage@lemmy.world avatar

Am I the only one who finds it reassuring that the well-armed ninja billionaire who lives out a childhood revenge fantasy every night has a set of rules he follows?

immutable,

I tried to go back and watch the Dark Knight Batman movies because I remembered enjoying them when they first came out.

There’s an early scene where there is a Batman impersonator and he goes “what’s the difference between me and you” and Batman goes “I’m not wearing hockey pads”

It’s supposed to be a real zinger. As I watched it though the realization hit me that what he’s really saying is “because I have money so the rules don’t apply to me” and then I realized that that’s kinda the entire point of Batman. He’s a billionaire that’s decided he’s wealthy enough that silly things like laws don’t apply to him.

Really made me not enjoy the movie and I ended up turning it off.

fsxylo,

I think the point is that he wasn’t an amateur and the guy was. He was trying to do a job and they got in his way.

Replace batman with a firefighter and give the guy a water pistol and it’s the same story.

immutable,

I mean it’s not like you can major in Batman studies or go down to the Batman Trade School and become a professional Batman.

Batman is just as much an amateur as that guy is, he just has more expensive gear.

fsxylo,

I mean professional in a skill sense. Batman is very damn good at what he does, and no one comes close.

Batman Trade School

Also known as the Robin Internship Program.

Ser_Salty,

Well, Batman was trained by the League of Assassins.

immutable,

Now I’m just imagining the ads from the League of Assassins on AM radio and whatnot, and it’s great.

tkk13909,

I think that’s why I like Spiderman so much. He’s a vigilante who genuinely struggles to make ends meet at times and has gone through so much that he arguably deserves to completely stop protecting people and yet, he continues anyway.

Jaytreeman,

I like the idea of a Batman story where it's slowly revealed that he's the villain. There'd be his most sympathetic villains revealed to be people that are fighting the morally correct fight, while Batman is just fighting to maintain the status quo.
The sequel would have the Joker trying to undermine the public trust in the systems that maintain the status quo

PlushySD,

It’s just Batman subconsciously trying to avoid…

spoilerFailsave

AlataOrange,

Why is it Batman’s duty to forfeit his morals and kill the Joker and not on the state of New Jersey for their revolving door of crime in their penitentiaries like blackwater and appalling lack of proper facilities to deal with dangerous and deranged meta humans instead sticking them in a rotting facility made in the 20’s.

Hell why isn’t this on the federal government after so many years of chronic and sustained neglect. They have what amounts to a nightmare scenario for the department of defense and just let it sit like a festering wound.

Why do we blame a single crazy billionaire, instead of the horrendous circumstances surrounding them.

Omnificer,

Yea, it’s always been weird to me that Batman alone is being judged for not using lethal force. If that were part of any consistent values, wouldn’t every person who has had chain of custody of Joker, or even proximity to him, be morally obligated to kill him?

If random cop that has had Joker in handcuffs, or random doctor who has been treating Joker, or even every other super hero on the planet hasn’t extra judiciallly executed Joker, why should Batman bear the obligation to do so?

vklortho,

I was about to make the argument that if batman killed the joker the only consequence for him would be his compromised morals, but if someone else killed the joker while he was in custody then they would at least lose their job and most likely go to jail and that’s not comparable. Then I remembered that if a cop killed him they’d just get paid leave before they were acquitted of the murder and worst case would have to get a job in a different city. So yeah ACAB.

Rivalarrival,

Then I remembered that if a cop killed him they’d just get paid leave before they were acquitted of the murder and worst case would have to get a job in a different city.

That only became a possibility when they cast Nick Creegan.

ComradeChairmanKGB, (edited )
@ComradeChairmanKGB@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Yea, it’s always been weird to me that Batman alone is being judged for not using lethal force.

Batman is the focus of the narrative and the audience. Of course he will be the focus of the criticism. But technically yes, a lot of others in universe do also share responsibility for any further victims of the Joker. After a certain number of escape, spree, capture, escape, spree, etc cycles surely they must have realized he cannot be rehabilitated and will continue the remorseless mass killings until he dies.

or even proximity to him, be morally obligated to kill him?

This is a compelling idea for sure, and could definitely lead to interesting questions in other cases. Let’s say the Joker has a body count of at least 1000 victims, how far back do you have to walk that number before such an obligation is no longer reasonable. Would a serial killer with 40 victims also be such a clear and present danger that they’d represent a moral imperative for their elimination? Or does it have to reach comic book levels of obscene?

Jaytreeman,

Because rather than spending some of his money to change things, he spends it to punch people

Ser_Salty,

But he spends a fuckton of his money to change things, though?

Pretty sure it’s even a point in the comics that he hires a bunch of ex-cons and stuff specifically so they don’t have to resort to a life of crime again.

Honytawk,

Bruce Wayne is like an extreme philanthropist when it comes to spending money to help others.

Honytawk,

Just like we don’t expect the police to be the executioner, and instead have a judge make the verdict. We shouldn’t expect Batman to do so either.

o0joshua0o,

What’s much more important is the number of victims! If you kill a killer you are reducing the total number of victims.

dustyData,

This is the greatest part about the latest movie, The Batman. At the beginning you do have the depressive rich boy obsessed with revenge, being brutal and cruel to criminals is sort of his point. But as the movie progresses he starts to shift to realize that he shouldn’t be pursuing revenge against the criminals, for it isn’t bringing him any resolution, but instead should be striving to save and protect the victims. The shift is dramatic, specially with the thematic use of Nirvana’s Something In The Way as musical background, and it’s paired in a holistic way with his public face. Bruce Wayne comes out of the shadows to become the philanthropic playboy. Another facade, but one that fulfills just as an important role, by pushing Gotham rich society to charity and financial aid work for the ones in need, that is of course rarely if ever depicted, because it’s not superhero work. But it is important because is the part of the rich boy actually using his fortune to enact positive change in the world that the superhero persona can’t, just like the superhero does things the regular person can’t, capturing crazy criminals and saving people from over-engineered elaborate terrorist ploys.

Dadifer,

Batman’s goal is to create a Gotham where he is not needed.

candyman337,

Hard to do when he doesn’t fix the other issues in Gotham and he just beats up villains lol, man needs to use his wealth to influence politics for the better

fsxylo,

He… does.

This is the “why didn’t the eagles fly to Mordor” of the batman universe.

candyman337,

Yes and there have been other comics in alternate universes that prove that if he did more he could get rid of crime in gotham

fsxylo,

The alternate universe stuff muddies the water so much that it really doesn’t have much weight.

qarbone,

And there are stories where Gotham is literally cursed to be evil. You start pulling edge cases and you throw out everything that matters. There’s probably a story where Gotham and Metropolis switched vibes and Superman is an autocrat Spaze Nazi exterminating shoplifters and petty thugs

TheBawbe83,

here’s probably a story where Gotham and Metropolis switched vibes and Superman is an autocrat Spaze Nazi exterminating shoplifters and petty thugs

Ehm… i think the guys at Games Workshop did a pretty decent version of this with the whole Konrad Curze thing…

mojo,

Like trying to clean up Iraq while openly refusing to kill Osama bin Laden.

ChaoticNeutralCzech,
@ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de avatar

So you’re assuming I’ve never killed anyone?

ComradeChairmanKGB,
@ComradeChairmanKGB@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Maybe, but are you smart enough not to hint at it on the internet? No.

Mordachai_Shedbacon,

Johnathan Wayne has entered the chat

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