Explain to some idiot that as a socialist you’ve gotten for conservative as you got older that you looking into the finer details of economic planning and reading into Stalin, wokes: “omg YoU hAtE gAyS” I swear a lot of social engineering these days to turn people away from these ideas and towards an emotional irrationalism with a horrible aesthetic to keep people in an echo chamber surrounded by self-reflecting identity politics chained to the predominant ideology serving capital.
It’s almost like both sides are stupid and wrong and just wants to shout at each other without giving any solutions. Both sides just want to be right while society suffers because both sides won’t just shut the actual fuck up. Sick of feminist ideology, sick of aggressive males. Why won’t you all just shut the fuck up with your bullshit. Especially fuck your egos with your identity politics shite whether your a white nationalist tard or a blue haired woke tard.
100% agree. Modern day society tells Men to actively express their emotions and feelings without actually providing good, logical advice that helps improves Mens lives and get them out of their depressive states.
Instead of teaching Men to observe and regulate their emotions to become better and find purpose. Now society is encouraging to trap them in an emotional cycle where we need to be dependent on people.
And still society wonders why so many Men are radicalised by gurus like Tate, which is also no good as it comes with mysoginistic opinions and same old conservative beliefs, how Women should be treated.
However, whether people like Tate or not. He definetly has impacted Men and lit a fire underneath. Maybe improved individual lives. After all, Tate saw a weakness in society (Men depression and suicide) and took advantage of it for his own personal gains.
What society needs now is actual Male Role Models. This is where ancient greek philosophy Stoism can be one of the useful solutions to this issue, which should be taught in education systems.
If men have no positive role models and no framework through which to interact with their emotions and their place in the world, they will find horrible role models like Andrew Tate and come up with crude and self-serving frameworks through which to view the world. Since people find religion cringe for some reason nowadays, personal philosophy and virtue ethics are now our only good option.
How about stop trying to dictate who’s role model people follow! How about let people live their lives? If people find help and value to become better then so be it. Who are you to say he is a bad role model? Because he says things you don’t like or behaves in a way you don’t find appealing.
Andrew Tate’s entire schtick is being a misogynistic chimpanzee wearing the skin of a man and bragging about how wealthy and sexually successful he is. Anybody who believes this manchild to be a good role model ought to be treated as a laughingstock, much like the man himself. Andrew Tate and people like him capturing the minds of the youth, or young people living a meaningless and depressive existence with no role models or aspirations at all, has direct negative effects on society, and therefore me as well. Therefore, I will continue to tell people to stop following shitty role models like him and to get good ones, because I wanna live in a society where people actually have standards for how they conduct themselves, instead of a society dominated by people like Andrew Tate.
I agree with what you said. However it also worth pointing out that I have seen individual Men going to the gym, improving their mental, physical, emotional and even career after watching a few Tate videos.
The thing is you can use Andrew Tate as a source of motivation whilst not agreeing with his beliefs and opinions. Although, this seems more of a difficult task for some, I managed to do this. Take a bit of red and blue pill to have a better understanding of the world around you.
Men ought to have higher aspirations than owning a Bugatti and fucking a lot of hoes. Andrew Tate does not promote any such aspirations. A society where young men only care about sex and supercars is a society on the fast track to collapse.
So bad because he wrong thinked? Tate bad because he said a word? Please if he helps young men go to the gym and improve mental health then what’s the problem but it also highlights a gaping hole in society that hasn’t been addressed and neglected by this Western woke ideology, largely the needs of males have been neglected, shunned and ignored.
Because he’s a degenerate scam artist who influences young men to do things which are harmful for society. Society needs standards.
Please if he helps young men go to the gym and improve mental health then what’s the problem
That’s not what Andrew Tate did. Andrew Tate tells men that they are worthless unless they’re wealthy, strong, and promiscuous like him, and then extracts money from them so they can attend his “hustle university” and learn surface-level Investipedia knowledge from a moderator on the Andrew Tate discord server.
People like this should absolutely be ostracized. Being mistreated by society does not give any of us an excuse to be fucking stupid.
I think that while everything you say is true and you are right, he is a scammer. But it would be also wrong to say he didn’t impact a few men in positive light.
He lit a fire under Men to get up and fix their life through anger and agression. Its the only positive I see. True, I have seen more radicalised with fucking cigars in their mouth doing jackshit and ruining themselves, maybe that is fate telling wokes to wake up and see something is wrong. But there are smart men who indeed get motivated by Tate and i’ve seen body transformation vids too on it.
This is good as an individual to be successful, healthy, happy, agressive, smart, strong, wise. This is freedom. To forget about the noise/distraction and politics and build your own beliefs, opinions and virtues.
I have always believed in taking bits and stuff from everyone and leaving the negative that doesn’t benefit me as a person bc I too have to adapt in society.
I have always believed in taking bits and stuff from everyone and leaving the negative that doesn’t benefit me as a person bc I too have to adapt in society.
And I find that while some of what Andrew Tate says has positive effects on society, most of what he says is negative and that it outweighs the positives, and his target demographic, teenage boys, are biologically incapable of comprehending nuance due to their undeveloped brains, and are therefore way too stupid to be trusted to only take the good and leave the bad. Therefore, Andrew Tate and people like him should be ostracized by society.
I mean who would of thought that feminists blocking and banning any criticism on social media and then blasting social media with kill all men, men ain’t shit etc over and over again such a positive impact on society like the climbing suicide rate! Well done, you’ve alienated at least 50% of the population.
I agree to this to some extent. However as you say, letting Men live how they want by being free is what modern society have always been telling them. Yet no purpose, no goals, dreams, motivation? Every human needs a mentor to guide them through life. If you look into stoism, you will understand what I am saying. These ancient greek gods knew their stuff and they were emperors and masters for good reason.
Why won’t you all just shut the fuck up with your bullshit.
It would be nice if we all looked around at what’s happening in the world, recognized what we can change, what we can’t, accepted our differences, accepted that we’re human, tried to work together, shook hands and let the best win, whatever.
In this climate, there are too many individual biases in place that prevent that from happening in a way that’s ideal, though - none of us are immune from that, either, unfortunately.
We can work toward it; I’m more interested in practicality, for example, and I try to be aware of my own biases while recognizing the biases of others, without judgement - or at least, with minimal judgement that’s impersonal.
Some people will always be harder for me to connect with than others. That doesn’t make them bad - it’s just a part of the human condition. And sometimes those connections are still very feasible.
It’s usually ok to be “wrong”. It’s usually ok to have an opinion that doesn’t jive with the norm.
It’s complicated. There’s many aspects of feminism that make perfect sense, and it’s more than reasonable for the issues that feminists raise to be discussed. Many (perhaps all - I don’t have a list off hand) are totally legitimate.
There are approaches to feminism that are counter productive…or even just…cringe.
The same could be said for almost any other political issue.
People have been unjustifiably exploited by political issues as well.
I think the media, in general, is problematic. We all rely on it, but it’s too powerful, and the people who have control over what it produces naturally exploit it.
Above all, it’s best to work toward preventing external factors like the media from controlling how you think and feel.
It’s not easy. We all succumb to it in one way or another. Sometimes it even serves a purpose.
The more we’re aware of it, though, the less control it has.
The media is also a tool. One that’s useful. It’s not black and white.
In general, the more we’re aware of how a system itself is designed, and how that affects us, the better.
I know people from many different walks of life who voted for Trump or lean more in the direction of the right; I hold nothing against them for that.
Working toward the interests of society - the best outcome for the majority of people - would be the ideal, but in a way that’s diplomatic and didn’t involve shouting at each other over the Internet.
We might not necessarily be in a position where we can even do that, or at least as well as we could have 10 years ago.
That’s kind of scary.
Anyway, maybe in your case the right thing to do is just take a deep breath; put your phone down, and do something else.
That’s at least what I’m going to do.
Humans definitely gonna human tho.
Understanding that and finding a way to navigate it in a way that’s fruitful is key…
This is a true story: My doctor told me this while I was lying in a hospital bed, in the ICU, after trying to kill myself by ODing on pills and alcohol, straps around my wrists and ankles. This was at an extremely nice hospital in Silicon Valley, California.
I was loaded on antipsychotics and a little loopy but I remember telling him that it was sexist bullshit and unhelpful, which made the nurse chuckle.
I will say, from my grandfather to my father to me, it feels mental health in men has shifted. my dad told me what his dad did (like “the crust will put hair on your chest”) but it feels society has shifted on the subject and I hope our education system still reflects that!
BE A MAN We must be swift as a coursing river BE A MAN With all the force of a great typhoon BE A MAN With all the strength of a raging fire Mysterious as the dark side of the moon
I would love to create a community on here for men’s mental health and (actual) issues, but I’m afraid it would get invaded by the toxic masculinity crap.
How can you even dare do suggest such an evil thing? Everybody knows men and women are completely different creatures. There’s no way they would be able to talk about mental health together! /s
Everyone deserves mental health. And everyone deserves a safe space to discuss their feelings and emotions with others in a similar situation. And I don’t want a space strictly for men. A LOT of men need to hear women’s perspectives and experiences. And process what was shared and why it is important. I don’t want men to learn how to be better men. I want men to learn how to to be happier, and better people.
There’s a benefit to having communities for all and communities focused on the different groups, may it be specific genders, ethnic groups, generations, socio economic backgrounds and so on… The support people need might be similar in some cases, it can also be very specific to who they are in other situations…
I’m on the fence about that. The internet seems so fractured, hateful, extremist and identity based, that it seems like leaning into an identity group is going to create the problems it looks to solve, in this case toxic masculinity.
I’m on the fence about that. The internet seems so fractured, hateful, extremist and identity based, that it seems like leaning into an identity group is going to create the problems it looks to solve, in this case toxic masculinity.
Honestly, I agree, putting a gender slant on it, unless completely necessary, can easily arecomplicate the situation, as its putting these expectations at the front of mind. I often see this leading either into resentful sexism, or original sin type self-loathing for being a man.
I honesty just think tbe topic of gender online is so toxic, that mixing it in with mental health can cause lots of unnecessarily complications, and makes it easy for third parties to take advantage for their own ends.
Isn’t this exactly part of the problem? Men have been gaslit into “being a man” on one side, while also being taught to fear “toxic masculinity” if they try to discuss their problems in group/digital settings. It seems no matter how such a community behaves there will always people that push both of these narratives. But they’re not part of the solution, so I’m not sure I’m gonna take them seriously.
“I find it kind of funny, I find it kind of sad…”, what actually does people think toxic masculinity is? The one you’re replying to seems to have been tricked into believing that feminists think that all masculine traits are bad. They are actually listening to the enemy of their own self best interests.
I think there might be some overlap causing confusion. Being protective and problem solving are not inherently bad, but combine it with stuff like dominating, controling and not listening to others, and it can be very harmful. So a person might believe that they are just being protective but since they didn’t listen to the other person their actions turns to controling instead.
This is great! It reminds me of this video which in my opinion everyone should watch who tries to run a community (and everybody else should watch it as well).
Just as a shady bar can be a magnet to not so nice people, a mental health online community for specifically men on a platform like Lemmy (that probably already has a not so diverse user base) is basically a honey pot for people who want to spread certain ideologies.
The video gets reported endlessly on YouTube btw, that’s why it is “age restricted”. :( While it talks about hatred it doesn’t endorse hatred. But for some reason this gets a video age restricted on YouTube while videos which are actively hateful do not get restricted…
The thing is, you’re going to need actual leftists with a lot of experience in right-wing narratives to do that… liberals can’t. They only recognize right-wing narratives when it’s far, far too late - if they recognize them at all. That’s what the Bartender’s Rule demonstrates - you can’t allow right-wing ideologies to hide behind “respectibility politcs.” If you do, the right-wingers have already won.
Yeah - I haven’t checked Reddit again but there was
Menslib, which was focused on Men related issues and discussing them from an empathetic standpoint. I’d say it were critical social discussion with a clear emphasis on men.
And there was bropill, which was less about longer discussions and more about sharing in general.
I dunno if they are still active but if you start something I’d love to join that community. So maybe write me a DM if you do? :)
Toxic masculinity is just severe insecurity and blatant ignorance with a sprinkle of lack of education. Modern day caveman only good for moving logs and building houses. They now think they deserve a place where something educated needs to be discussed and instead of understanding or trying to understand they just spout their bullshit.
There’s a sub-reddit called Daddit. It was a great support group for Dads on reddit, either struggling or wanted to share their love for their kids. It’s very doable, you just need to set an example early on for what it needs to be.
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