“The son of YOUR president took a single bribe and showed his ding dong on the internet, my president rapes women, lies about his finances, commits fraud and incites an insurrection! See both side are bad!”
And some of us just really want fresh healthy food. At least some of us will eat the day old food, but won’t be happy about that being the best choice. But because of polarization and group think, we’re just lumped in with the nazis. The internet is fun.
It doesn’t matter though, he’s not the president and is not involved in any politicalmatters. Sure, he should be investigated if he did something wrong, but why is that relevant?
I find it interesting that the hamas Israel conflict has become such a political issue. Support of Israel in general, yeah religiously charged. But Hamas did start the attack and do a ton of fucked up stuff. SO many hostages including Americans. Israel is an oppressive government and from a distance seems systemically racist not just overly defensive. I just feel like this is a more nuanced issue
I just think it’s worth noting that Hamas does call for the destruction of Israel. You can’t discount one set of lost lives for another. The only real victims here are non-Hamas Palestinians
I’m not finding anything explicit about the destruction of Israel being a Hamas goal which is interesting. I wonder if anyone else can find that source. I would love for that not to be the case
I don’t understand why you’re going to a website of the USA intelligence apparatus - an apparatus that is currently participating in a genocidal war against Hamas - in order to learn what Hamas calls for. Why not look at what Hamas themselves say?
Why are to adopting the default position that they do call for the destruction of isreal and then asking for sources that prove otherwise? Seems like the people making the claim should be able to provide their source, and if they can’t, they should maybe be asking themselves why they believed it in the first place.
Though, again, it’s not really relevant: genocide is bad.
I’m honestly not. I want to learn, especially in times like these where the information warfare is so tough on both sides. These were just the only more academic sources I could find. I’m not saying “I’m right until you prove otherwise” just trying to crowd source research
When it comes to the official stance of Hamas, I would suggest looking at their 2017 Charter. Notably item 20:
Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
That is interesting and thank you for the primary source reference! I’m trying to interpret the 1967 border phrase with the “complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea”. Is that just referring to the Gaza Strip and West Bank, not either or? Otherwise, the big concerning phrase is the “rejection of the Zionist entity”. It also seems by that last sentence that they want the total dismantling of Israel, but to compromise internally within Palestine, they’re willing to accept merely the 1967 line
The problem isn’t that I want to be a centrist because I think it’s correct. It’s because this country is going to fucking shit with the deadlock on any kind of cooperation.
Constantly volleying for further extremes correct or not is why we can’t get a budget approved, why even with the ACA it got stripped to fucking Bits when the next presidency swung around.
The reality is you want to be bringing in more voters by being more palatable and not pushing them away by drawing a line in the sand for EVERY single issue. No I’m a better liberal! No I’m a better liberal look at me virtue signal.
You’re not wrong that we should be able to critique everyone in government, but that’s not what people are taking issue with so it’s not really the problem. You’re kind of omitting the second half. “Both sides are the same, so it doesn’t make a difference what I do/I’ll just keep voting the way I have/I won’t vote because it doesn’t matter.”
I just don’t understand how “both sides are the same” could possibly hold any water after Roe was repealed. That’s evidence enough to the contrary, but people are far more concerned with sounding like they are “above the fray” and being perceived as big brain skeptics (even if they are uninformed on the issues) so they repeat it anyway. That or they are still voting MAGA and want to create a false equivalency.
Yes I got what you were saying, but the problem is it’s obfuscating the issue. You are claiming that people who reject “both sides“ are rejecting critiques of the party they support. I am saying that is not true and it’s not even the core issue at hand - which this meme is directed at, mind you.
“Both sides aren’t the same” isn’t “I’m with the good guys.” It’s “the two parties are not doing the same things so stop pretending they are.” See: Roe.
I’m sorry but “Trump will shake things up and get us to do something” is an absurd take and doesn’t give us the right to unleash what we know will happen to marginalized groups in this country. Especially when bringing him on isn’t going to stop what is going on in Israel and Palestine. If anything, it will make things worse.
Unless you think Trump is going to help innocents in Palestine, frankly, the argument doesn’t hold any water. And if you do believe that, well… I’m not really sure what to say.
Oh, it’s not something I am hoping for, just the potential of a silver lining.
I don’t think trump will help anyone.
What I do see is so many people who are worried about people’s rights, and then continue supporting someone who doesn’t support an innocent persons right to live.
It makes it really hard for me to feel for someone who is worried about not being able to dress or be called by the pronoun that the feel matches their gender, none of which is throwing trans/ace/ other minority under the bus.
I use it as an example to point out the hypocrisy.
I am sure it is horrible to people who have to deal with that, but being killed is irreversible.
I know that trans people are more likely to commit suicide and all that, just using this as a parallel.
If we are this worried about the potential harms created by a trump presidency, shouldn’t we hold Biden to a higher standard?
I’m sure this will rub people the wrong way so please feel free to ask for clarification if you actually want to have a discussion about the topic.
Just because I voted for Biden does not mean I don’t care about an innocent person’s - or any person’s for that matter - right to live. That is a cruel accusation to levy at someone.
You’re acting like we all have a concrete say in every issue of domestic and foreign policy. The reality is we all have a very small piece of the puzzle that allows us to move the needle in small ways. It’s glacial and frustrating and kind of the point, for better or for worse. The problem with your comment is you are equating voting against Trump, i.e. voting for the Democrats, with not caring about innocent people dying abroad. I think I don’t need to explain to you why that’s not really a fair take, anymore than I can say you hate the planet and want it to burn for ever getting on an airplane or in a car.
You could stand with me and say no to Biden and make them run a better candidate, you are choosing to allow it by not standing against, or at least by not supporting the standard he has laid.
I did not vote for Biden in the primary last time and I will not be voting for him in the primary this time. Do not presume to know how I am going to vote. We are clearly talking about the general election, however, and it is safe to assume it will be Biden vs. Trump at this stage.
2023 centrism in a nutshell. “I don’t like Biden so I vote to give Trump the dictatorship he so craves backed by the scotus he rigged his way into so we’ll never have a choice again”
Both sides ARE bad. The trick is to use critical thinking and realize that one side is “stupid and misguided” bad and the other is “literal nazi, genocide against minorities, and also very stupid” bad.
Almost everyone with national level political power do. An open letter from House democrats to the White House urging them to work towards a ceasefire agreement had TWELVE signatures. Out of 212. And one of the 12 even tried to quietly remove her signature from it without the public noticing.
They may not hate Palestine, but they sure as hell don’t care enough about Palestinian lives to not support the fascist Israeli government and its genocide.
Well the democratic president just sidestepped congressional reviews to give more tank shells to the Israelis but is struggling to provide Ukraine with materiel and shut down giving them fighter jets.
That’s begging the question in the traditional sense of the term in formal logic. First of all you have to establish that it is in fact a genocide. While what the IDF is doing probably counts as war crimes, I have yet to see a convincing case that it’s genocide in a legal sense. We’ll see. I’m more than willing to change my mind in light of new evidence or a stronger argument than I have seen thus far.
Sometimes but not always. There’s more to it in international law. That said, I realize that in arguing caution before leveling accusations of genocide, I am in the minority in this instance. My take is based on what I’ve read of expert legal opinion on the subject and not on my own evaluation of the IDF’s moral position.
The long and short of it is that there are matters of intent that have to be shown in order to have a case for genocide. Thus far, regardless of how we think about the IDF vis war-crimes, I have yet to see a convincing argument for genocide on a legal basis.
You may say that this is a distinction without a difference, and while I’m sympathetic to that idea, I still think it’s worthwhile to maintain these sharp legal definitions.
Ok so you don’t consider what they are doing genocidal actions.
Forcing people out of their homes, cutting off all electricity, food, and water while having them in a complete barricade and shutting down or extremely limiting aid, while destroying 80% of housing is Genocide.
If you feel the need to try and hide behind obfuscation then you do you but I can call a spade a spade.
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
They do suck, but the GOP is significantly worse in every way: It's all about the least shitty choice in the United States which is why we need ranked choice voting so badly.
I’ve found people on here actually arguing that hamas is unambiguously right in their actions. Unlike black lives matter where saying white lives don’t matter is a complete straw man that no one was arguing. So making sure people are on the same page about Hamas I think is valuable still.
You know your take is “How dare they fighting against being genocided” they should let Isreal drop bombs at them and kill their families daily like the last half century and never ever retaliate while the world watchs in silence or even help Isreal doing the massacre. How inhuman of them to fight back with the same ferocity the Isreali settlers fucks has shown to them. Oh, look at the Poor isreali settlers that left their western country to go and steal a palistinian land and act towards them worst than during apartheid SA. Yeah, hamas are freedom fighters and isreali propagandists call them terrorists to delegitimize Palestinians fight against fucking genocide.
I geuss when someone enters your home and beat the shit out of you and your family, Steal and destroy all your belongings every other day you just accept it and will not defend yourself, huh?
This is international law. We must uphold international law and promote human rights, because any society that does not, puts the whole world closer to barbarism.
International laws that isreal keep violating over and over and the world stay silent. They even kill journalists for god sake !! The world has shown us its true colors but thanks God the new generation is waking up. In the future, these laws will hopefully be truly followed.
Depends on the issue. Queerphobics vs “woke ideology”? One denys a minority the right to exist and tries everything to make them miserable (including bringing them to the point of suicide) whilst the other sometimes maybe overshoots a little. There’s no “muh, bOtH sIdEs” here.
Isreal and Palestina? Hamas is a terror organization hiding behind civilians, in hospitals etc, risking innocent palestinian lives (and there are innocent civilians in Palestine) whilst the israeli government conducts policies of illegal settling or funding of Hamas to stay in power and facilitate a public enemy. Both sides here do abhorrent things on the back of innocent civilian lives, but both do have reasons.
All in all, this meme is perfect. The stupid and idiotic person depicted fits the stupid and undifferentiated caption very well.
(And yes, I know this text will start a comment war about Israel and Palestine because too many people feel like they have to pick a side and defend everything that side does. I will not participate though.)
All lives matter was a racist dog whistle. Both sides are bad is just the sad state of politics where neither major parties actually care about the people.
“Both sides” is an attempt to create a false equivalency between the party that wants to do an end run around our democratic systems/repeal the rights of women and already marginalized nationwide/jail dissenters, and the Democrats.
The Democratic Party has countless problems, but the fact of the matter is the above are incredibly important and imminent threats. Yeah, I’m going to hold my nose and vote for the less-bad option. Because both sides are not the same.
You falling for the theatre one presents a little better, doesn't mean they don't both lead to the exact same result, one just does it slower and politely enough to appease moderates such as yourself:
If you’re going to reduce my opinions to “falling for theater” then I have little interest in having a discussion with you. I don’t see what kind of discussion is worth having with someone willing to dismiss me out of hand.
Okay so you admit in your own argument that they're doing it slower. Yes, I WILL vote for a 50-year plan to fascism over voting for a 2-year plan to fascism, every time, without question. Gives us more time to turn it around before sitting officials burn everything down. At this point in this country I frankly don't give much of a damn what the Democrat long term goals are anymore because the Republican party is such an immediate and obvious threat to safety, democracy, and human decency. Given such an environment it's obvious that a few decades (or less) from now we're going to be dealing with significant problems in the Democratic party, since it's so easy to choose to usher them into power right now - it's easy for bad actors to abuse that. And frankly there are already problems in the Democratic party. But I'd rather deal with that then, than deal with Republican ideals now, because instituting Republican ideals now will not leave us with a future where we even have the choice to deal with Democrat problems.
(Hint: the Democrats long term goals are to lose to the fascists on purpose because that’s how they maximize their funding/support from liberalesque individuals like yourself.)
Very interesting hint. I do agree though, one is wolf in sheep’s clothing, other is wolf in wolf’s clothing. MLK Jr. had something to say about that:
I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negroes’ great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s “Counciler” or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Show me any decision of consequence in life that doesn’t have a downside. There are no perfect choices, just less bad ones. And in the 2024 US election there’s one choice that’s a lot worse than the other.
It may not technically be too late, but everyone who has a say about it has nixed the idea.
A primary SHOULD happen, hopefully with someone much better than the Senator from MBNA winning it, but it’s not going to. The corrupt establishment protects their own.
The way the US democracy works, attempting this would be too dangerous i.e. either all your fellow voters agree with you or you lose. How sure are you about winning this?
Not a democracy… It’s a constitutional federal republic. There’s a difference.
If I vote like everyone else then there’s no point in voting at all, nothing will ever change either way.
It’s not about being sure, it’s about not voting for the same people who we know are corrupt or incompetent.
I just want a different political party to get on the ballet at least once, at this point I don’t even care which one. I’m just sick and tired of this bullshit.
A federal republic is a type of democracy. Often those that make this hard distinction are thinking republic vs direct democracy, which while accurate doesn’t capture the democracy most people are referring to when they say the US is a democracy. They mean the US is a modern liberal democracy, which it is, and has the constitutional federal republic style of government. I point this out not to nitpick, but because the right has used the argument that the US isn’t a democracy to justify eroding our rights.
I’ll gladly compromise as long as it means there’s more choices in the future.
This shit is like being vender locked where the only choice is between 2 really shit monopolies.
Completely new… seen partying with the existing cabal in 1990’s and also affiliated with the sex island pedophile ring that nobody ever got in trouble for.
The idea that pointing out that modern "democracy" is a sham that's hurting us all in the name of capitalism, is in any way comparable to a racist dog whistle, only goes to show your privilege and wilful ignorance
To all the people who want to vote third party or withhold their vote, please tell me, when had that ever effected change?
This idea that if you hold your vote or vote 3rd party you’re gonna teach the establishment a lesson is laughable. No, the system will go on without you and you’ll just have even less of a voice/decision in the direction of our country.
There is a reason certain people work so hard to tell you your vote doesn’t matter. You’re all falling for it.
Edit: If you don’t like the candidates you have to choose from then go out and vote in the primaries because there’s about a 90% chance you’re not doing that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PartyVotes-Presidents.png, with the generous assumption that the threat of party replacement hasn’t influenced policy positions whatsoever.
So in today’s elections, one might point to Democrats who are increasingly opposed to FPTP.
If all the people who are defensive voting decided to stop doing that, our current leading parties would not be #1 &2. Your presumption that we even consider your candidate is laughable. And you are not making a convincing argument to change my mind, at best you are triggering clapter in the people who agree with you, so I hope your motive is to actually just keep defensive voters in their place.
Plus you already believe going against society’s establishment is worth doing, or why are you on lemmy?
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