They have enough thought process to play. Watch them fly. They play in the thermals. Do all manner of aerobatics. They know how to steal from humans. That’s not “dumb”.
I think a lot of birds have more complex internal lives than people realize. I have chickens, amd all four of them have a distinct personality and feelings.
This entire argument is a joke. They are birds, not even mammals, what can apes know about bird-logic? Einstein said you cant judge a fish for how well it can climb a tree but our bias for human smarts remains. Judge a seagull in the context of a seagull and the result will be the same as for every single other species, some are smarter/dumber then others, all have their own strengths and weaknesses. A smart seagull is the one most consistently successful and healthy as a seagull.
Any bird who lives primarily in the water is dumb as shit. They have unlimited protection above and around them, so they have zero adaptive pressure to put anything into their intelligence. Land birds have a lot to worry about so their brains are approaching human levels of intellect.
A land bird flew into my window so hard I was worried it died this morning. This happens once a month to my knowledge and I don’t spend long in my bedroom outside sleeping. Land birds aren’t smart outside of a few select species lol
In all seriousness that’s more of a sensory limitation than an intelligence limitation. IIRC birds’ eyes work differently from mammals and they can’t see glass pretty much at all.
Like what? It’s a bay window like any other, I have blackout curtains drawn across it most of the time so I can sleep past 6. I’m not putting any stickers or anything on it that the hoa will get pissy about
That just gives them a target. They can’t see the window. This is a real problem in some cities. AFAIK no one has found a real solution other than frosting the windows, but then humans can’t see through the windows and get irritated.
It’s funny, I went to visit a place and the person who lived there was starting to get their life in order, so they cleaned the window. I knew this because while I was there I heard a THUD and there was a giant streak of bird shit trailing down the window from the impact point.
I agree, but not to go on a road trip to Manitoba :P
I actually did the math, and for how loaded the car was and how many people we brought, it was both cheaper and more eco-friendly to take a car that gets 42 MPG on that road trip than take a plane to Winnipeg.
Not true at all. There’s tons of adaptive pressure. If there weren’t, we wouldn’t see the thousands of pelagic and shorebird species that we do. But even if what you say about the threat from predation were true --its not-- there would still be adaptive pressure from differential reproduction rates and access to nutrients.
For real, there are at least some parrots that are likely to outlive their owners. Like if you get a pet parrot you do it considering you will likely pass it on to someone else in your fucking will.
The sadder part of this is that many “pet” parrots live much shorter than their natural life in the wild because their owners don’t know how to care for them. They’re also extremely intelligent, some researchers argue that macaws can be considered sapient for example.
Even more widespread problem with koi and goldfish. They can live well into their 80s and can grow up to many pounds over that time, yet most people have their goldfish die after two weeks and just assume that’s their natural lifespan because they’re irresponsible owners. Hint: that glass bowl is not cutting it, there isn’t a single species of fish that can be healthy in a tank without an active circulation pump and filter. Also fun fact: the Western misconception that goldfish can be kept in bowls comes from the fact that in China and Japan where they originate, owners would sometimes put them in clay bowls to show them off (which were about a meter in diameter BTW, not the soccer ball sized bowls you see nowadays), they were kept in those bowls very rarely, they were traditionally raised in large ponds.
So are all baby animals. Which is the only life stage of their species you’ve probably ever seen because most pet ones never live even close to their maximum lifespan.
Also, jellyfish are even more fragile looking yet some can theoretically live forever. Looking fragile to humans does not mean they aren’t well adapted to survive for a long time in their natural habitat.
Because of the industrialized pet industry, the likes of PetSmart. They’ve convinced people that small pets like fish are products that can be thrown away instead of living individuals. They’d rather your small pet die in two weeks because that just means you’ll be back to buy another one, so they’ve launched a propaganda campaign against any sentiment of responsibly caring for them and fooled the majority of people into thinking that it’s just their normal lifespan and they need way less care, equipment and commitment than they actually do.
They are related but not that closely. They share the same taxonomic family, but not the same genus. It’s like saying a fallow deer and a moose are very closely related. Or a panda and a grizzly.
My great grandad got a couple of cockatoos when he was in his 20s right after ww2 and they still managed to outlive him. Only by a few weeks mind you - poor things starved themselves to death out of grief after he died. He told us not to worry about rehoming them because he knew they wouldn’t be able to take the loss of loosing him at such an age.
He only had them because he took up conservation work and they’re just, native to Australia. They lived out in a big aviary he’d built with trees and bushes and even a water feature along with other birds he ended up aquiring. I adored those birds, but I genuinely can’t understand how or why you’d keep such a big beautiful intelligent bird as a pet in a cage on the other side of the world and it always weirds me out when I see these birds I grew up watching roam free eating all our damn lemons in someone’s house as a pet. It’s like if you an American saw someone keeping a racoon as a pet.
This reminds me of a talk I had with my dad, an equine veterinarian for 40 years. I'd seen that video of a horse eating a chick online and someone in the comments explained that horses are naturally opportunistic eaters and that's why it took the chance to munch it down. I confidently told him this later on and he said, 'nah, they're just stupid'.
I’m sure there’s some seagull out there with a 1000-yard stare who went through the most fucked up shit of his life in the 90’s and still remembers it like it was yesterday. He hangs out down by the bars and drinks discarded alcohol out of the trash, trying to forget, and then flies around drunk bumping into things.
The other seagulls look at him and shake their heads with pity “he used to be such a good gull… so full of promise.”
I don’t know that I’d trust an ornathologist to know how the brain chemistry works. But I do trust that they’re dumb. Lacking memory isn’t predictive of being dumb, but there’s probably some correlation. Maybe seagulls have perfect memory but just want to flip human observers the bird.
Ornithologists do actual science, they aren’t just bird watchers. An ornithologist is pretty much the only one I would trust about this because they are the ones studying the birds.
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