Every and any animal has a personality; you just need more time to discover it on some species than others.
Cows can be very tame, if from a milk breed, and brutal pointy ended stomping and biting machines if from beef breeds.
Pigs are not tame, at all. I’ve raised potbelly pigs and they could absolute sweets or complete assholes capable of biting or headbutt you without warning. It’s the only farm animal that can revert to feral state.
And chickens know they were once dinossaurs. Get them in sufficient numbers and they become dangerous. Ever seen a fox afraid inside a chickencoop? I have; at a 100:1 ratio, the poor fox was hoping for a fine meal but was instead made a meal.
No because they were not slaughtered on site but you could tell they all knew when someone wasn’t coming back. It made it hard to eat pork realizing that part.
Pigs can have a sense of numbers, like any herd animal. I get your point. But there are breeds and breeds.
To my very limited personal knowledge, landrace breeds tend to be more like that, especially breeds selected to be grazed and kept outside, which made sense as it would be desirable to have a closely knit group, where individuals would look out for each other. And this gave rise to breeds that can be extremely dangerous to other animals, including humans.
Talking with a few pig herders that live around the area I live, Inwas told more “modern” pig breeds tend to be less group and motherly care driven, to the point of sows mauling piglets out of food drive.
Now look at what humans do to cows, or even to other humans. We commit atrocities at a scale that no other species has ever achieved. According to your logic, humans deserve to be treated even worse than cows.
If I wasn’t clear, I’m claiming for the not so pretty side of the story to be told; people tend to romanticize everything, especially when it comes to animals.
I am not in favour, to any degree, to animals being mistreated and/or abused to any degree, regardless if those same animals are a food source.
Raising animals for food is not incompatible with caring and making all humanly possible efforts to assure the animals live a good life.
Raising animals for food is not incompatible with caring and making all humanly possible efforts to assure the animals live a good life.
People won’t ever stop buying from factory farms as long as it’s socially acceptable, or cheaper options with a close enough taste become available.
“Nearly 99 percent of farmed animals in the US are factory farmed. There are around 250,000 farms in the US. Every day, 23 million land animals are killed on these farms – around 266 every second”
I don’t know a single meat eater that doesn’t eat factory farmed meat, including my former self. Do you really believe that people will suddenly start asking about living conditions in restaurants and supermarkets, pay a higher price, and boycot all factory farmed animal products? Speaking of romantizing. This seems like a complete fantasy to me. The vast majority will always buy the cheapest options they can find, no questions asked.
Defending the notion that systematic exploitation is fine, as long as you stab them “humanely” in the throat, provides the ideological basis for treating animals as products, reducing the cost by treating them as worst as possible. Like most people do right now.
As I see it, the only realistic way to end factory farming is if either plant-based meat alternatives or lab-grown meat are produced on a large scale to become price competitive. Which seems to be where things are going for many meat categories, although customer acceptance still has a long way to go.
Whether we treat animals fairly shouldn’t depend on whether they’re friendly or playful towards humans.
Still, every cow looks curious and investigative. And even if they’re skittish, they’re still much more trusting towards humans than we deserve. If the cow understood what was really happening, it would be horrified of the monsters that humans are towards cows.
Now please stop blaming yourself and your entire species for existing.
Are we supposed to lay on the ground and die because we require animal products to live?
Let’s stop being stupid or coy and assume we either eat meat and animal products and are willing to pay the moral and material price for it or want to whitewash our conscience by making a life of blaming others for just being alive.
Animal products are all across our civilization, regardless you use it personally or not.
Horseshoe crab blood is used to perform specialized tests and analizys. Many forms of gelatin extracted from animal tissues is used to inoculate cultures. Ever heard of lab mice and their importance for scientific research and development, especially when it comes to biomedical and pharmaceuticals? Are you aware that pigs provided human compatible insulin for decades before the synthetic formula was developed? You know replacement heart valves can be harvested from animals? Horses aid in producing antivenoms.
These are very niche yet very important roles animals play to support our entire civilization.
So enjoy your dietary option and allow others to do the same.
Unsure if I fully agree. On one side, yeah cows are exploited. But they get a safe life, with medicine and treatment for illness and physical issues (hooves). Access to food without concern of predators, safe place to sleep and give birth.
Cows are one of the most successful animals in the world because they’re a resource for humans. They are not allowed to go extinct.
I’d say humans are by far the best thing that happened to any domesticated animal.
A safe life of being murdered after being caged (either literally or with fences) for 25% of their natural lifespan. That makes sense. Let’s blindly ignore all the abuse they typically go through during that short life because wE nEeD mEaT or some dumb shit.
Hehe, we like meat so much that we’re going to ignore the fact that it destroys the environment and continue farming and eating it like there is still a billion of us on this planet. Also, the prices must be low but i don’t care that living beings are raised in hellish conditions for our convenience. We made it illegal to record those conditions so we don’t have to look at them. Meat delicious, I deserve it three meals a day because look at my prosperity.
It kills me how often I see people claim that it is the corporations that are driving climate change and that individuals can do nothing when going plant based would make a huge difference.
For anyone interested, here is a relevant documentary about how Earth is experiencing a sixth mass extinction event because of our actions like you mentioned.
I know it’s a cliché, but say this on Reddit and you’ll be downvoted into oblivion. Tried it many times. Criticize meat and seemingly reasonable people suddenly start making the same circular arguments they usually mock.
People consider themselves good people and don’t like thinking about the consequences of their actions.
Same happens when you point out that children lose their limbs for our smartphones. People aren’t going to stop using their smartphones, aren’t going to consider themselves bad people, and so will rationalize however they can.
I love cows. Ciws are awesome. They’re cute, they’re cool, and I will announce them out loud every time I drive by them, even if there’s nobody else in the car to hear it. And they are DELICIOUS
Well good for you. Harr harr harr, what a knee slapper.
Continue to ignore the cognitive dissonance of the murder of a sentient being that is “cute” and “cool” so you can pleasure yourself.
Hopefully people will see this for what it is one day. It’s a crime. Not long ago men joked to themselves about how beautiful and nice women were before they raped them. Slaves weren’t considered human at one point.
I’m not gonna get too high on my horse, because I used to eat meat, but at least had the dignity to not proudly proclaim my stupid choice to assuage the nagging doubt underneath.
Yes, you are right and thousands of years of humanity’s culture is wrong. You are certainly not too high on your horse, which you shouldn’t have saddled and enslaved in the first place. Thank you, Citizen, for your erudite insight and wisdom!
Appeal to thousands of years of history… which is filled with murder, rape, war, enslavement, and endless other crimes. We are capable of evolving as a species.
Is it murder when you are biologically designed for hunting and eating meat? Unlike the other situations you mentioned I can point to a ludicrous amount of evidence that your body is made to sometimes eat animal proteins.
Whether we should regularly consume animal products or whether our methods of farming animals is sustainable us a different issue, and IMO is the most compelling argument as it is the only thing as an individual you can do to really combat climate change.
Over 90% of the human diet has always been plant-based until very recently.
You were also biologically “designed” (you religious btw?) to murder and rape.
And you were certainly not biologically “designed” to go down to the grocery store to buy a huge slab of red flesh in a plastic container to go along with your doritos.
Yes most of your diet should be plants because you should have more teeth for eating plants than meat (your dental care is bad if this is not true).
You’ll note that I talk about eating a lot less meat if you choose to eat meat.
You aren’t designed to rape. Consent as a concept comes about millions of years after the design parts of homo sapiens manifests itself. Don’t be ignorantly hyperbolic.
Unlike the other situations you mentioned I can point to a ludicrous amount of evidence that your body is made to sometimes eat animal proteins.
The experts would disagree.
It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.
Your source isn’t addressing my claim on any level at all which is biological/anthropological in nature not dietary. You have teeth designed for tearing flesh. You have enzymes to break down said flesh. You are designed to hunt some animals and NOTHING in your source addresses it nor could your source do so with any credibility.
So your appeal to authority is completely out of place here.
People live completely healthy without meat, so how is this relevant? Even if we were biologically adapted to hunting, that doesn’t make it ethical. Ducks are designed to rape, surely that doesn’t make rape ethical. Or does it in your view?
I aint got any way of describing it, good I guess. Its my prefered meat of choice if that gives you any idea. Also what relgion were you raised in? Im gonna guess Hindu.
The closest analogy that I have found is Ostrich, though that tastes of beef and liver. Venison, aka deer, is much like beef, but with almost no fat, so you have to mix it with a fatty meat to use it as beef, even then there’s a richer “beefyness” to the end result.
I wish I had tried an antelope steak, when I had the ability to do so, I suspect that would be closer to beef in taste and fat content upon further research.
Thing is, your opinion on it will be dependent upon how it is prepared and by whom. When I have beef in dishes like stir fry or brigiole or even in a roast beef sandwich, it’s not particularly impressive and is usually second fiddle to the vegetables, pasta or bread. However, a quality beef burger or steak made medium-rare and seasoned properly is just amazing. The other thing though is that if you have never had it, it just might make you sick or at the very least plagued woth indigestion
If you were born after 1985 and are American your views on pork’s flavor aren’t exactly spot on. We moved to leaner breeds in the 1980s and as a result our pork has a lot less flavor than it used to. There’s a richness to heritage breeds like the ones Neiman Ranch sells that have that flavor still. Other nations I do not believe made this shift.
“Carnism” that’s the difference between vegans and non-vegans.
Only vegans view their diet as a lifestyle and shit on everyone else who isn’t vegan. We’re not “carnists” we don’t give a fuck really except that we hate vegans. Why? Because you lot are the pushiest, most openly judgemental, arrogant pieces of shit to walk the earth.
I bet if you stopped murdering animals the mean judgmental vegans wouldn’t hurt your poor precious feelings. Honestly? You deserve it if you continue contributing to animal abuse.
Possibly iron. There’s heme and non-heme forms of iron and some people are just physically incapable of using non-heme (plant based) iron. It’s uncommon but definitely a thing.
If for some reason he medically required heme-iron, I’d rather publicly subsidize the price difference for them to eat impossible meat as that does contain heme-iron. No more requirement to rely on animal products for that. As far as I’m aware though, it’s just a concern of absorption rate. If the absorption rate is the concern they should just focus on taking a higher dosage supplement - which would not require heme-iron.
the meat industry put out decades of propaganda during the great depression & world wars to convince the western world to buy meat & dairy. truth is, humans have lived off plant based diets for millennia. ending factory farming is one of the easiest ways to combat climate change & corporations
Humans have also been eating meat for millennia. We’re omnivores, and have always been opportunistic about what we eat
Individuals cutting down their personal meat consumption won’t stop factory farming, but ending subsidies that make that practice highly profitable might
Most people have consumed animal proteins the catch is they weren’t eating a lot meat regularly. One of my ancestors was upper middle class when he migrated to the USA and founded a small city. His journal talks about his meals and as a wealthy person with a dairy farm he still mostly had stew and rarely ate steak. He wasn’t eating animals all the time and that was 1840-80s. We need to go back to a time when eating a whole chicken among a family of four in a single meal almost never happened IF we continue farming animals which as you noted is a climate change nightmare.
Make some shallow cuts on the ribs, so the salt penetrates better on them. Add a generous amount of [important!]coarse[/important] salt, making sure that some crystals go inside the cuts. Wait half hour or so.
Light a charcoal fire, and barbecue the ribs for a hour with the bony side down. [important!]Low fire.[/important] The bones should start detaching themselves from the meat, then you know that it’s time to flip it; cook it with the fattier side down for a few more hours.
Use your judgment if you need to flip it again or not. Some people only flip it once, some do it multiple times. This should take 4~6h so wake up early if you want it to be ready for lunch.
In the pressure cooker:
a bit of veg oil
an onion, peeled, sliced
1kg ribs, cut into large chunks
salt and pepper to taste
Put the veg oil, onion, ribs, salt and pepper in the pressure cooker, in this order. No need for water (the onions release quite a bit of water). Close it, let it cook on pressure for 40min.
It’s a godsend for a lot of things, from Bolognese sauce to “fuck I’m in a hurry perhaps I can adapt this recipe to the pressure cooker”. And some things get actually better in the pressure cooker, not just faster; homemade veg stock is a good example.
(It’s actually great for vegan stock too, you can squeeze a bit more flavour out of the veg bits and shroom stems. Just make sure to not add cruciferous vegs to the pressure cooker - because they will overcook and they will make your stock taste like sulphur.)
Oh boy, another dogshit kill animals hehe meme. Very funny maymay community. Psuedoprogressive animal abusers the lot of ya. There is not enough resources on Earth to quench your never ending demand for bodies. Just have ten trillion kids who all definitely have the opportunity to eat just as many animals as you do! Primitive zero brain cell fools. I’d throw you all out of Athens.
Yeah dude idk how to tell you this but some people actually do have an interest in a sustainable planet and individual’s bodily autonomy. Idc if these are foreign ideas to you. OP’s post itself is the trolling. If y’all don’t want reactionary responses, dont troll this shit to the top post for the last six hours. You’ve all demonstrated very clearly how little you care about anything outside of your own momentary pleasure.
Zero sum game that requires my own death to achieve - seems a reasonable request compared to a request to not participate in the forcible birthing of billions of animals into exploitative confinement until they are killed at our convenience for eternity, or the unecessary trawling of trillions of them.
Or we can seek to achieve what is possible, and work out what isn’t over time. You describe a technical problem. That aside can you even empirically prove that more animals die in agricultural fields than in nature? I’m all in favor of reducing those deaths but is it actually any worse than if we let the existing fields reforest? I don’t see your point as analogous to my own concerns.
No one is. A lot of people who are preferring a plant based diet due to moral reasons are well aware of such “roadkill”.
Thing is, we’re not breeding them into existence. These deaths are accidental and if there were a technical solution to the problem everyone would be in favour of that. In the animal industry on the other hand everything is intentional. Both, the scale and the moral intentions are a completely different world there.
So, from the moral stand point of veganism: is it bad to kill animals? Yes. Is it worse to kill animals intentionally on an industrial scale, which could be prevented, than accidentally on a much smaller scale during plant farming where it currently can not be prevented? Absolutely, yes.
And 1.3 million people are killed by cars every year. It’s a fucking bloodbath. So driving a car is similar to intentionally murdering people, of course. Don’t pretend you are innocent if you drive a car.
It’s not hard to just stop eating animals but these people will come up with any excuse to keep supporting totally unnecessary meat consumption. It’s disgusting and abhorrent.
You’re not going to change any minds by shutting on the people you’re proselytizing to.
Give it a few more years until lab-grown meat is cheaper than live animals, and then recommend that as an alternative. People are more motivated by money than ethics.
Yeah I don’t believe I’m going to change anyone’s mind. Everyone around me says I’m so “honorable” and “respectful” because I keep my mouth shut but do they ever change? No. It’s always “I’m thinking about going vegan” then eating a barrel at KFC. So forget that.
Habits are hard to break, and the other person needs to have an incentive to stop eating meat and/or animal products. Much like New Years Resolutions, those “I’m thinking of” thoughts are just going to be dropped because there’s no tangible motivation to follow through with them.
You can try convincing people by teaching them the health benefits from avoiding red meats, but realistically, you’re not going to get far. There’s a lot of misinformation and outdated research on the viability of vegetarian and vegan diets, and it’s hard to change somebody’s mind when they feel like it might be unhealthy.
This is why I’m hopeful for lab-grown meat being cheaper than actual meat. You’re going to have the “GMO science evil” crowd that can’t be helped, but the average consumer would gladly trade their ground beef for an equivalent-tasting alternative that saves them money. It’s not vegetarian or vegan, but it solves the ethical issue of factory farming.
I’m not eating dead animals and paying for their unnecessary murder. I’m also not under the delusion that I’m going to change anyone’s mind; really don’t get why everyone assumes that.
Cheap lab grown meat is not “a few years” out. Furthermore, this is like saying you shouldn’t berate people for owning slaves because they are just waiting for robots to come along that can fulfill the same tasks. Even if some magical x factor will cause everyone to be vegan two years from now that would not excuse the conditions we subject animals to in the present.
internet is filled with echo chambers who cant make ethical decisions of their own. veganism gets downvoted because it makes people question their morality & they have to make the effort of buying plant-based options. god forbid they eat food without cholesterol
Veganism gets downvoted for the same reason any other fanaticism gets downvoted: the vocal minority that talks about it does so with a hoiler-than-thou attitude, much like you are doing right now.
The people who want me to stop punching nonconsenting people in the face unprovoked sure are smug about not punching nonconsenting people in the face unprovoked. They should stop telling me what to do. Live and let live. I am very intelligent. An enlightened centrist you might say! ☝️🤓
The vast majority of the Western world does not consider farm animals to have the same rights as humans or pets. Equating the ethics of eating meat and battery is really reaching for an example to make me look stupid.
But hey, if we’re playing that game, here’s some examples that demonstrate unnecessary and annoying proselytizing:
The people who want me to {blank} sure are smug about how they {blank}. They should keep telling me how their lifestyle is better. My opinion isn’t as important as theirs. I am very happy to be talked down upon. An enlightened listener, you might say! ☝️🤓
On the basis of their being conscious feeling thinking emotional beings I assert that there is no moral difference between violating the bodily autonomy of a non-human animal and a human. Given a no alternative hypothetical it’s fair to give preference for who to spare, but this is not the same as willful unnecessary violence and killing.
If it’s false equivalency, demonstrate why it is permissible to kill non humans but not even permissible to punch humans in the face. What is the morally relevant difference? If you could apply that difference to a human, would you then justify doing to them all the things we do to animals?
Insofar as our laws view animals, we do not afford them the same considerations or rights as we do our own species. I can’t speak for Europe, but in the legal systems of North American countries, animals are granted their own distinct protections separate from the protections given to entities with the designation of personhood (i.e. humans or service animals).
For instance, with permits and barring species that are protected for conservation reasons, humans are allowed to hunt and kill animals for both sport and sustenance. In such cases, animals do not consent to their hunting.
However, that does not mean that it is okay to hurt animals without cause. There are animal cruelty laws that cover unjustified and inhumane treatment of wild and pet animals.
If it is legal to kill animals but illegal to be “cruel” to them, then the act of killing an animal is not, in itself, cruelty. If it was, then animal cruelty would unconditionally occur during the process of hunting, making the latter illegal.
With these four points, and keeping in mind that laws are a reflection of the collective beliefs of society, we see that:
Harming humans is viewed as a different act than harming animals, and is not generally permissible.
Killing animals is permissible.
Inflicting intentional cruelty on animals is not permissible.
(2) is not precluded by (3).
By (1) and that punching a human in the face is an act of harming them (and also illegal), I conclude that it is not morally permissible to punch humans in the face.
By (2) and (4), I conclude that it is morally permissible to kill non-human animals.
Just in case anyone thinks relativism is a cop-out answer because laws were written in the past and may not be reflective of society’s current moral views, I ask you to consider this:
Laws are constantly changed to align with updated beliefs. Canada amended its laws to consider gender identity a protected class, which reflects the contemporary belief that transgender individuals deserve equality and freedom from being discriminated against. If society cared about not killing animals, hunting for sport would be unconditionally outlawed.
Edit 1: I meant cultural relativism. Non-Western cultures have different (and in some cases, more progressive) views on animal rights.
Foundationally we already disagree, as I’m a moral objectivist. To assert moral subjectivity is to assert that moral progress does not exist. But with your edit your argument is actually now even worse IMO, because instead of focusing on a moral relativist position you’re now basically saying morality=culture/law. i.e., since you have no say in what another society does without disrupting their agreed practice, all their actions are permissible. Bigotry is permissible. Slavery is permissible, hangings are permissible, genocide is permissible, etc, just so long as it simultaneously does not occur within proximity to you and rejects your preference. I think you are tolerant of intolerance.
I don’t think we’re coming to any sort of agreement here.
You believe there’s a universal set of morals, and I believe individuals’ morals are determined by environment (time, place, morals of others around the individual, etc.) and ultimately come together to form a collective understanding of morality for that point in time and those within that cultural environment.
That aside, concluding that I’m “tolerant of intolerance” is both disingenuous and incorrect. I believe that culture dictates morality, and I respect that other cultures are allowed to have their beliefs, but that doesn’t mean I choose to agree with them. I don’t consider any of your examples permissible under my own moral code.
I also accept that I am not the universal standard, and that it would be hypocritical to impose my own beliefs on demographics with a different moral code. To override the moral autonomy of others^1^ in a crusade for moral righteousness would be an unjust act in itself. Or in layman’s idiom, “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”
^1^ Others, plural. Not individuals who are exceptional to the moral concensus of their surroundings (i.e. murderers)
I believe we seek to arrive at universal morals. When we discuss atrocities, I don’t see any reason to frame concerns for the well-being of others as personal preference. Their well-being is outside myself. The concern is for their own sake, not mine. I think you’re in contradiction because you are once again saying you don’t get to override the moral autonomy of others but simultaneously concede that you oppose atrocities that the moral autonomy of others permit. If I had the option to stop another society (where the majority of that society are in agreement on the action) from engaging in arbitrary genocide of their own citizens, I’d do that. The idea that you would find my action to stop them less permissible than their own tells me you lack conviction for your own values.
Correct. I, and nobody else, should be permitted to override the moral autonomy of others. Atrocities have already been performed under the line of reasoning that the persecutors’ beliefs are objectivity superior to those that they are persecuting, and this is not something that we should aspire to repeat in the current day. Two moral wrongs—persecuting those that are persecuting others—does not make a moral right.
If the goal in your hypothetical scenario were solely to provide refuge and safe haven for willing members of said society, then I would have no problem with that. You would not be overriding moral beliefs; refugees would simply be voluntarily defecting from their own.
If your goal is to stop the genocide by destabilizing the society and installing your own set of moral beliefs in its place, then it would no longer be permissible.
Well homie I appreciate the bullet bite but I don’t know how to fix you - you not only feel no need to endorse the ending of genocide - even for the marginalized in societies outside your own, you actively discourage and look down upon interfering with genocide. I don’t know if you have the capacity to engage as a member of society, and frankly you may be a danger to it. Maybe you get the boot out of Athens 😵💫
We can agree to disagree on our differing views of morality, I guess.
With regards to genocide, it’s a tough topic. We both agree that it’s wrong, but we don’t agree on how to approach it. I come from the perspective that there isn’t a baseline for morality and that it’s amoral to foist a subjective standard on others. You come from the perspective that there exists a universal standard for morality, and that it is amoral to allow societies to deviate from it.
Two diametrically opposed viewpoints that can’t be reconciled at this point in time. Maybe, in the future, if we have a unified global “culture” and moral relativism and cultural relativism are indistinguishable, we might be able to come to some agreement. Until then, you do you, and I do me.
Moral objectivism is pretty much the argument that inevitably always ends with an authoritarian regime to “eliminate” the “unethical” people from society. Germany first, and all that.
So if i want an external society to stop genociding for abritrary reasons, and I encourage my society to openly condemn it – even consider physical intervention where no alternative works, I’m the nazi? Did America do a nazi when they invaded Germany to end Hitler’s expansion/regime?
More than half of America lives paycheck to paycheck. Vegan options are more expensive. Until you fix the economic crisis and solve poverty you really can’t enforce veganism.
This isn’t even getting into the fact that vegan options are literally nonexistent in many places.
Oh but you don’t care about that because you only care about veganism because it allows you to feel morally superior to others.
I would feel a lot better about it if we treated cattle with existential respect while they gather for our consumption.
But capitalism does not do that to humans so hoping for mad cow respect in the US is about largely remembering about the fatal neurodegenerative disease of cattle.
Just go buy your meat directly from a farmer that only raises a few each year and that lets the cows roam free, it’s not impossible to buy meat that’s much more ethical, you just have to accept the price that comes with it.
Oh yeah you totally need a break, must be hard to only eat meat sometimes and continue supporting animal abuse. The animals totally don’t need a break more than you.
One form of harm does not excuse the other. We all have to make some effort on multiple fronts if we want the future to be brighter. Besides, it’s easier to survive as a vegetarian than without technology in modern society.
Brighter according to whom? By what standard? Is this a dietary restriction you would enforce on other through violence, or by some other authoritarian means?
As long as it doesnt involve chick peas, lentils, or any of that hippie garbage that the patchouli posse calls “food”. Vegan cooking is horrible, and I know vecause I am surrounded by them
Just because you’re surrounded by bad cooks doesn’t mean vegan/vegetarian food is bad… unless you also tell me that the only part of your meals that you enjoy is the meat and you hate all your side orders? 🤔
Oh goddamn what a bunch of gatekeeping shitasses. You people just can’t, can you?? I fucking hate chickpeas and lentils, and that is a basic protein source for vegans. Vegetals are awesome and my favorite part of the meal but vegan preparation of them sucks. Got it? Capiche? I dont fucking like it. I want butter on my goddamn corn and not some fakeass bullshit that isnt fucking butter. Do you understand? Do you get it? Or are you gonna respond like an asshole yet again and tell me my taste is all wrong?
Yes, because not enough people tell vegans that they act like self-righteous assholes. You’re always that shithead who insists that tofu is great, yOu jUsT hAvEnT hAd iT mAdE rIgHt!! iT tAsTeS jUsT lIkE rEaL mEaT!!
I’ve had PLENTY of vegan crap, all by great chefs and they all pat each other on the back about how great their vegan food is. My wife is a chef and prepared it professionally for Popular Vegan Hangout before she went blind. I dont fucking like it. It’s that simple. I am not wrong about that.
Thing is I could make efforts on all fronts except for eating meat every now and then and you guys would still be mad even if I made more effort then you everywhere else.
Meat eating is tightly connected to manliness. Also ideas of freedom. People think doing away with meat would mean more austerity and an attack on their individuality. You could sit someone down, join the dots for them linking meat to environmental catastrophe that affects them and they will still laugh it off with a vapid joke like in the meme.
The idea isn’t new or obscure but there is an academic source. Have you never heard of alt-right idiots complaining about soy boys? You know they are referring to men who have been emasculated because of aversion to meat and consumption of estrogen-like soy products?
I’ve heard about that, but I feel a majority of meat eaters are quite tolerant with veganism and don’t see it a a threat to their masculinity. And I think I can say this threat isn’t even relevant in the case of women meat eaters. About the study you linked: it doesn’t really try to take an objective standpoint on the matter since its entire premise is the necessity to convince meat eaters to change their eating habits. Also is says itself (end of section 5) that the link between eating meat and masculinity wasn’t specifically targeted by the study. The authors do mention though that the link between masculinity and meat eating can be attributed to perceptions created by industry marketing. But in this article (as well as in my own personal experience) this link seems at best anecdotal.
I don’t even know what to say. I’m a man and never did I link eating a steak to my masculinity. I know it’s a thing but it just seems so primitive/basic.
I agree with you that it’s a personal choice. I was replying to someone who seemed to imply that it wasn’t, and was suggesting that someone who eats meat can just stop doing it. I think that, for some people or some cultures, transitioning to a vegan diet isn’t that easy.
I love how you say it’s a personal choice then drone on about how people in “some” cultures find it difficult to be vegan but never did you say “hey I live in the Arctic circle where we’re forced to eat animals” (or something like that) so I imagine that for you the issue is irrelevant and you’re just choosing to eat animals.
“You’re supposed to pretend that you’re something speshul and above those filthy, disgusting and immoral animals!” - vegans.
EDIT, replying to a comment (from another poster? the same poster?) elsewhere. I think that it was answering this comment, but the thread got deleted so…
Yeah, not eating animals means we think we’re “above” them because that makes sense.
Yes, it does. Unless you also expect other omnivorous species and the carnivorous ones to refrain to eat meat… do you? (You don’t.)
And yes, this makes sense even if it hurts your “precious, oooh so preeecious!” feelings of superiority over other animals.
Also some other animal killer here in the comments flat out said “humans are above animals, this is fact” but evil vegans think they’re above animals!
Whataboutism: “but what about what the other guy said?”, disingenuously shifting the focus from vegans to non-vegans. Also I’m not responsible for someone else’s statements.
False dichotomy: implying that a non-vegan putting himself over other animals automatically excludes vegans from doing the same.
The false dichotomy is so fucking dumb that it makes me think that you’re implictly admitting to not have any actual argument at hand.
If you want a serious reply then bring up some something not so infested by fallacies as the above, otherwise I’ll just keep laughing at you, “sorry”.
(Arguably also loaded language but I’ll cut you some slack on that, given that it has some entertainment value.)
Yeah, not eating animals means we think we’re “above” them because that makes sense. Also some other animal killer here in the comments flat out said “humans are above animals, this is fact” but evil vegans think they’re above animals!
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