Except many of the communists on some instances call everything that isn’t their brand of authoritarian communism “fascism” which isn’t how things work IRL.
I think that’s awful an immature behavior. When you fight idiocy with aggression (at least on social media) you just get idiots who think they must be right and start truth social or something
I find that a lot of crazy right wingers do it to “own the libs” or get a rise out of their supposed enemies. It’s all just a sports game to people like that.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Almost nobody posts on the internet trying to challenge and reconsider their beliefs, so it’s not like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
Does ignoring the fascists make them go away? Please.
If you ignore them they get bored and stop being so staunch in their awful beliefs. When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
So now you’re accusing us of making fascists more fascist, as an excuse for your ridiculous theory of just ignoring fascism.
like you’re going to change their mind anyway.
Its not even about changing their minds. Its about forcing them out of shared spaces. Fascists should driven out, shamed, harassed, and redacted.
What you think is lib bullshit that gets your spaces infiltrated and taken over by fascists and reactionaries.
You want to ignore them fine, but don’t condescend to people who confront them and drive them out of shared spaces as if you have a more “mature” solution. Your solution is literally “if i close my eyes they go away” baby logic
We actually study history and read shit. Like I just finished reading Long Walk to Freedom & Armed and Dangerous, both are a fairly good firsthand on how “fascists” respond to non-violence and only start to have reservations when the oppressed shoot back.
It’s just polarizing. You’re just making people more staunch in their beliefs or just annoying people who would rather not deal with aggression (like myself)
If your goal is to drive people away and make a space where everyone just agrees with you all the time then it’s effective.
This is really the point to hammer home. Back in my lib days, I started hanging out with a dude who was much cooler than me, and his anarchist friends. We once got to talking about how our town used to have a pretty substantial neo-nazi presence, in the 80s-90s. I said something to the effect of “good thing people are smarter today!” and he and his friends got really animated and saying how “they didn’t just go away one day, we fucking chased them out of here!”
While at first I just didn’t like getting yelled at, it eventually dawned upon me that that he was right. I, and everyone I had ever talked to about it (other libs), just assumed that that whole unpleasant nazi thing just went away, through the magic of progress, presumably. It was just a thing that was there once, now wasn’t. People like him and his friends (and I’ve since met many more) were the actual people who went out and risked life and limb to oppose the nazis everywhere the went, to vandalize their posters and stickers the moment they went up, to show up in numbers every time there was a demonstration. To do everything to make life as shitty as possible for these pieces of shit until it just wasn’t really viable to be a nazi in our town anymore.
That whole realization did a lot to cure me of my “we can’t sink to their level”/freezepeach brainworms.
Polarization is clarifying. It drives away fascists which protects their targets and makes spaces safe for them. It also exposes people who would more readily share spaces with fascists and just ignore them than with the people who oppose them.
If it drives away people like you who ignore fascism, yet want to argue that opposing it is immature, then that’s a bonus
When you fight with them it makes them feel like they’re right. You end up forcing them to rationalize every shitty position.
Literal fascist talking point. “Look what you made me do”
I mean that’s what I think, at least
Investigate before you start thinking next time. Are trans children out there looking for fights just by existing or is your belief that fascists need to be provoked first founded on nothing but bullshit?
Yknow I’m talking about on social media platforms, right?
Frothing at the mouth raging at someone on a social media platform doesn’t do anything but cause more radicalization, so I just ignore people instead. I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
I don’t spend most of my life fighting with people on the internet over politics.
You won’t push back on fascists, but you can’t shut up when pushing back against people who believe in pushing back fascism.
cause more radicalization
Its been pointed out multiple times now that this is literally a fascist talking point. Pushing back against fascism is not what makes people fascist. In fact its how we protect the targets of fascism on shared spaces online or off.
As has also been pointed out to you some people just existing is seen as an incitement by fascists. What are they supposed to do? They can’t just ignore threats and the invalidation of their humanity. That you can shut your eyes to that says a lot about you.
Great to hear that the targets of fascism “can do whatever they want.” They don’t have a choice in the matter of being a target, unlike you obviously.
I’ve already told you this but our goal isn’t to change fascists minds. Its to drive them away, to shame them. To not allow them to spew their bullshit or attack their targets without resistance.
Pushing fascists out of our spaces is the only way people whose existence is targeted by fascism can actually “do whatever they want.”
I have no goal here. Just sharing my opinions. Not failing to do anything.
Yeah being aggressive is good for driving people away. And yknow given that your goal is actually to drive people away I was wrong to say it’s immature.
I just don’t like aggression. I don’t go on the internet looking for fights.
These skidmarks actively call for America to get nuked/civillians getting the wall and then turn around and project their fascist bs on others. The only group more representative of fascism today is maga.
Regardless of handwringing about it, the fact remains that we’ve driven out and proud fascists off of lemmy instances that we’re federated with. The simple existence of hexbear pulls the Lemmy overton window so far left that social democrats are now the right wingers - this is a good thing.
From what I see, it’s full of wannabe rebel communists, who claim to be communist because they like the idea of revolution. The type of people that think that wallstreetbets is communist because “they fight the system”.
Marx and gramsci are turning in their grave reading some lemmy post
I’m sorry but the Marxist and communist discussions on here are an absolute far cry from wallstreetbets lmao, not to mention using WSB favorite word gets you banned in a lot of these communities
Sorry Im not sure why but clicking on context provides nothing for me. Do you need me to explain what return on investment is (ROI) or is your comment regarding something else?
Some are well read and others maintain nonsense because they don’t know what anything means. Many seem to not have any understanding of how things work IRL. Fir example someone claimed China was a democracy and did not understand that the central party’s ability to determine who could oppose them meant that they are in fact not a functioning democracy.
Complicated issues are complicated. Neither Reddit, lemmy, Twitter (x?), nor any social media platform is particularly well suited towards discussing complex decisive topics.
To avoid crazy right wingers go to exploding heads and block the top twenty or so posters. Now all the authoritarian dipshits Im hearing from are at least coming from a better place than the auth right.
A whole bunch of these self proclaimed “communists” are supporting trump/trumpism…started with unfunny memes and well, I think we can all guess where they’re all going to end up.
The funniest part is arguing about current “forms” of communism and capitalism and not realizing that it’s just the same shit from different assholes and a far cry from either.
Yes I go into a phone booth as my normal commie antifa self and come out as Chudly Dugsfermpt local pool supply company owner and lover of Milton Friedman
Yes, every night I stop being a bisexual trans communist and put on my MAGA-Man leotard superhero suit and start ranting about immigrants and the woke gender ideology to people on the street
Damn, we found their trigger word! Lesser evil! LESSER EVIL!
It’s funny how hypocritical you are right now, too. You wanna label “liberals” as fascist, but get all pissy when the same happens to you with the same amount of credibility.
What’s funny is that you lot all seem to fail to realize that “Liberalism” is not inherently left or right wing, unless you are a reductionist who doesn’t believe that social liberalism exists and only believe Classic Liberalism exists. You all talk big about your political knowledge and how nuanced your beliefs are, and then you fall victim to the classic conservative notion of reductionism. Seeing “lib” used as an insult around here is just as hilariously pathetic as all the “snowflake” shit
I never called a lib a fascist. Liberalism is inherently right wing because its the ideology of capitalism. I understand that there’s distinctions between different types of liberals, and between them and fascists. I did call libs like you and the other poster, to use their phrase “the lesser evil” because you support capital but arent fascists.
If you don’t like being lumped in with other right wing tendencies then stop supporting capital. Its not our fault that reality is marxist che-si
Why are you lot so obsessed with reddit? Can’t you leave that place behind? I mean, haven’t you ever thought that people on reddit talk the way they do because its how most people online in general talk? Reddit didn’t invent linguistic trope. I digress.
And what makes you think I am a libertarian? What makes you think I support capitalism? Just because I don’t directly support your exact ideology doesn’t mean you get to straw man the criticism away. You and your ilk with that and ad hominem, or some other fallacy. Never able to directly hold an argument on it’s own merits. It’s fuckin hilarious lmao
Why are you lot so obsessed with reddit? Can’t you leave that place behind?
Can you blame people for being reminded of Reddit when you and your posts reek of Reddit?
I digress.
You and your ilk
ad hominem
Pretentious shit like that is the stench of Reddit.
And what makes you think I am a libertarian?
So far you’ve claimed not to be a liberal and not to be a libertarian, so if you’re one of those very tiresome “I have no political ideology” bullshit artists trying to dodge labels to seem extra enlightened, as seems to be the case, that’s actually a move that has overlap with both.
It’s fuckin hilarious lmao
You like it that
It’s funny that
It’s ironic that
It’s interesting that
Reddit minded people like yourself keep trying to mask their rage behind such tiresome “totally not mad” sentence fillers.
Lmao, you are one to talk about being pretentious. Hypocrisy is definitely your watchword.
Also, dont know why my comment said libertarian, definitely meant to write liberal and my shit must have autocorrected. I definitely have a political ideology, and its democratic socialism, which staunchly criticizes Marxist-leninist ideology. Like I said before, I dont agree with your philosophy but that doesnt make me a liberal or right-wing or anything. We agree on a lot of fundamental ideals, but theres a lot of disconnect, too.
I know you folk always have a “you’re with me or you’re against me” attitude, which makes sense considering your authoritarian nature. I think its just fun how easy it is to set you off. I mean, I can leave one half-baked comment and you guys swarm like vultures! I can see how the gish gallop is so successful.
So you’re one of those people that only support socialists who lose. Not a lot of room to talk about hypocrisy then, that’s your whole ideology. Makes sense you’re also into using logic pedant terms
What are you even talking about? This is the least comprehensible comment I’ve seen here. Everything you’ve said here has nothing to do with anything I’ve said; it’s the trifecta of straw man, non sequitur, and red herring. And using terms for logical argumentation doesn’t make me pedantic, it makes me able to precisely detail why and how your logic doesn’t work. I can see why you are afraid of that.
And, predictably, when all else fails, you basically resort to “no u”
You non-sequitur-ed, you double straw man-ed, you red herring-ed. Its not pedantic unless its from the pedant region of France. This is just sparkling smugness.
I’m sorry that you couldn’t comprehend my post, i was being pretty clear. You’re one of those western left anti-communists. You dont support actually existing socialist states. You think the men and women of the world who have fought revolutions and built real world socialist projects did it, or are doing it wrong. People like that usually have admiration for socialists who failed to bring a project into the real world, where their actions could be critiqued, where mistakes can happen and be visible, because only projects that aren’t real can live up to your idealist vision of socialism.
Mocking you for logic pedantry, and reddit debate bro bullshit to be fair is technically unrelated from your “ideology.” But there’s an obvious connection to how people who don’t find actual real world socialist projects worth supporting would also be into flinging thise terms around like anyone outside of online debate perverts would care
Damn, that’s a lot of wrong assumptions about me you just made. I can see that you lack the intelligence to actually see that I never really said much about my own ideology, so basically anything that you just tried to claim about me was pulled deep from inside your anus, and is objectively wrong. For the most part I actually support even communist states, but my main criticism with actual communist states is their authoritarianism, made easy by the inherent totalitarianism of communism.
Big problem with your criticism tho: there aren’t any true socialist states that exist today. There aren’t any states that have successfully fully implemented a socialist society today. A society where the actual individual workers own and control all the means of production, where all basic needs are met, and people are guaranteed the right to their freedoms. I absolutely support and laud the people out there working to achieve those goals. I don’t think any state will ever be able to perfectly achieve those goals, so I don’t expect perfection out of my fellow socialists. I do expect the abolition of the class, however, and that has never really even been close to being achieved. Not for a lack of trying, but because there is always some asshole who wants to be above others, and they have been very good at fucking things up for the rest of us.
And, you know, that gets me thinking… this whole conversation is exactly what capitalists want; infighting. You think I’m not radical enough for you, so you then label me as completely opposed to you. The problem is, I can guarantee we share a great many ideals, but you are too busy gatekeeping to allow others with slightly different but reconcilable ideals to be allies.
That is, of course, if I suspend my disbelief that you are a capitalist troll who is spitting vitriol, trying to make communists look belligerent and inhospitable.
Your explanation of your beliefs just proved me right. My thoughts about you didn’t come from my ass they honestly came from Michael Parenti Black Shirts and Reds
All governments are authoritarian, its a useless word. I didn’t make that up either. Its from Engels On Authority
Totalitarian is a bullshit concept invented during the Cold War to conflate fascism with communism, similar to double genocide theory, to use against communist states. To say its inherent to communism is like saying killing 10 gorillion dead, Vuvvezzuula, no food, no iphone, is inherent to communism.
You believe these things because you’re a left anti-communist. You can say that you arent, and then continue to describe to us all the ways that you are again if you want.
No, no it hasn’t gotten you thinking. If we share values, then why do you attack us. There’s more than once where you’ve popped off saying something weird directed at us. If you think our differences are reconcilable, why not lead with that?
Instead you started with TRIGGER WORD, and some comment about us being the same as fascists by saying we’re like Hannah Montana or something. Then you dicked around flinging out your straw mans and ad hominems and no true scotsmans instead of telling us about your ideology or making a real critique about ours.
Lmao I thought you wanted to move this discussion to your safe space, but your coward moderators banned me for literally just engaging with you. You guys are so fragile it’s hilarious. Carbon copy of The_Donald cosplaying as revolutonaries.
And, you know, that gets me thinking… this whole conversation is exactly what capitalists want; infighting. You think I’m not radical enough for you, so you then label me as completely opposed to you. The problem is, I can guarantee we share a great many ideals, but you are too busy gatekeeping to allow others with slightly different but reconcilable ideals to be allies.
Gatekeeping? That was always the issue I had with “democratic” socialists who have us-foreign-policy positions, but insist that they’re the ‘democratic’ ones because they want to make sure the slaveowners keep getting a vote (and continue existing).
If I’m a liberal, that would make you a turbo liberal. You guys keep throwing that word around, I’m not sure you even know what it means at this point. What kind of liberal wants total worker ownership and control of production? That is antithetical to the free enterprise fundamentals of liberalism.
If you oppose my actual beliefs (not the ones you made up and assumed based off of nothing) then you oppose your own beliefs, as Marx himself believed that a socialist state was required to be implemented before it could serve its purpose and wither away. If you oppose the implementation of socialism, you oppose communism. I merely suggest we implement socialism and go from there, see where things lead us. I don’t think the state would ever be able to wither away, as there will always be some need to facilitate the regulations decided upon, and we are long past the scales of community that allow that to happen autonomously. Apparently that’s such a radical notion that it makes me liberal. You guys are trying so hard to shift the Overton window, but the window has to at LEAST stay on the wall. You can’t shift left further left than you guys are, so just because someone isn’t ALL THE WAY left, doesnt mean that they are on the right.
Not that you guys are capable of arguing in good faith, anyways.
I mean unless we’re talking about the rich. But like my whole political ideology kinda hinges on aggression in that direction so…
I think the common Communist definition of “Rich” and Marx’s might differ vastly, and I think the vagueness of the word is half the reason. I see too many Communists calling for the death to (for example) computer programmers because many of them are able to save up a couple million by retirement. I know a few that ended up with $10M cash because they worked for a profit-share startup. While I’m not an expert on Marx, I’m pretty sure that’s not what he meant when he referred to the bourgeoisie.
Hell, I don’t think he ever predicted the massive number of “petite bourgeoisie” that we have now in much of the west, people who put in 60-80 hours simply to live the same life the rest of us live but not have to obediently answer a boss. I’d do that if I could. You’d think Communists could make allies of both the successful proles (like programmers) and the petite bourgeoisie.
If you draw “rich” somewhere close to the $100M mark or higher and include some asterisks on the ones you think should be murdered in the streets (assuming that’s what you meant by “unless we’re talking about the rich”), maybe most people will agree you’re not an aggressive communist (but still be terrified of you like we are of anyone who wants to kill someone for who they are). If you’re going to look at a grandma who has $2M in savings after her husband dies, the world’s got problems with you.
I mean, if you want to peacefully dismantle people like Musk, then I’m 100% on board with you. If you would support someone taking sudden and violent force to him, as much as I think he’s a douche, that’s why we use the word “aggressive”.
I have no problem with an individual acquiring wealth on the fruit of their own individual labor. The computer programmer getting a buy out from a venture capitalist has successfully gamed the system without being personally responsible for harm to others. At least directly. Usually.
My problem is with people who exploit the labor of others for profit. No billionaire earns that last zero without causing harm. They perpetuate violence for profit, knowingly. That violence can take a lot of forms, from unsafe working conditions all the way down to actual fucking slavery.
The thing is, you can’t participate in capitalism without either extreme ignorance or at least a little complacency towards that violence. And fine, there’s little to nothing most of us can do about it. You exist in this system, you’re a part of it. You’re either ok with others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate in your breakfast croissant, or you aren’t.
I don’t see a peaceful remedy to this problem. We can talk about theory, about “yeah just organize and vote” until we’re blue in the face but the reality is that system is actively rigged against us. We can talk about organizing your workplace and demanding better conditions, but that system is actively rigged against us too, even if you’re already in a union.
We are actively rocketing towards a very bleak future and every passing day without cataclysmic change only pushes it down the line. And every day we push it back, it increases in magnitude.
So frankly, if someone is going to commit violence on my behalf, I’d rather it be directed at the problem than directed at my peers in the working class, wherever they may be.
My problem is with people who exploit the labor of others for profit. No billionaire earns that last zero without causing harm
I’m mostly on board with you. But I’d like to cite “Notch” (of Minecraft) as an example of someone who earns the last zero without causing harm. Pure fucking luck? Sure. Should be part of a society that will redistribute his wealth? Definitely. Perpetuating violence for profit? I dunno what he’s doing now, but he wasn’t when he got that billion.
The thing is, you can’t participate in capitalism without either extreme ignorance or at least a little complacency towards that violence.
As a demsoc, my whole position is described by stopping the violence from within. There are parts of capitalism that are palatable, though it will inevitably end up in a horrible state if left to stagnate. But if I had to choose between universal healthcare and welfare for all and a violent revolution that fewer than 10% of people actually want, I think the former is a better option. And despite me having a lot of the same goals as the groups seeking that revolution, they still terrify me.
You exist in this system, you’re a part of it. You’re either ok with others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate in your breakfast croissant, or you aren’t.
Please understand that this terrifies me. The black & white no-middle-ground thinking is the foundation of so many atrocities. That idea that you cannot improve capitalism, or that a “better capitalism” is still identical to “others doing violence on your behalf so you can have a bit of chocolate” is the kind of madness that leads to authoritarian regimes. I’m against capitalism in general. I’m also against a smallish number of people with guns replacing capitalism with something else.
I don’t see a peaceful remedy to this problem.
Can you acknowledge that a state that over 90% of humans would be happy with is still within “the problem” for you? If not, please understand that THIS is why most people incorrectly batch Communism with Fascism. If so, please understand why you having a problem is the problem and you need to learn to differentiate between the Bidens and the Trumps. Biden is “the other side”. Trump is satan.
We can talk about theory, about “yeah just organize and vote” until we’re blue in the face but the reality is that system is actively rigged against us.
Let me be clear about this. I’m part of the same category batched as “progressives and leftists”. WE represent about 9% of the population in my home country. That part is unfortunately Democracy working as designed. Not rigged. WE should represent a larger percent of the population, but unlike Billionaires and Church Leaders, we can’t seem to find common ground between Far Left V1 and Far Left V2.
But you’re right. With less than 6% of people in your country supporting your particular views, voting is not the answer. But, IMO, neither is violence. If 6% of the country manages a coup, I will not be happy no matter how much of their views I agree with. Because that’s an authoritarian regime.
We are actively rocketing towards a very bleak future and every passing day without cataclysmic change only pushes it down the line. And every day we push it back, it increases in magnitude.
Everything you say here I agree with. But if we can’t get the support for “very bleak future” under 90%, then you’ve failed even if you temporarily succeed.
So frankly, if someone is going to commit violence on my behalf, I’d rather it be directed at the problem than directed at my peers in the working class, wherever they may be.
My wife’s best friend is Petite Bourgeoisie, she owns a breakfast diner near the local project. She makes less than her workers in all but the most perfect months. I have no problem with her. I have problem with anyone who will make her choose between surrendering her freedom not to answer to an ownership structure (even a communal ownership structure), or “going up against the wall”. Ironically, it is the part of me most sympathetic to the goals of communism that support her attempted independence from private ownership. I have, on many occasions, been told she would be in line for death or disenfranchisement. Do you understand my reservations? I PREFER an imperfect capitalism if that is the only alternative. And you might not have meant it, but you came across as saying that’s the only alternative, and by way of violence.
Whether or not notch directly hurt anyone himself. (He is now) The money he was paid was blood Money derived from persecuting destroying and monopolizing the market on Microsoft’s part.
So are you or are you not advocating for the murder of Notch? If so, I will oppose you at all costs as I would any extremist. If not, then what exactly are you disagreeing with me about?
No. Definitely not as long as he will help to work to make a more just and amicable Society. However if he or others try to violently oppress or push everyone down. All bets are off. One of the things these wealthy people need to remember is that we far outnumber them. And their money only isolates and protects them as long as we are marginally content. Should we ever get focused enough to the point to come for them. They stand no chance. So it’s in their interest to work with us. I don’t care if they have a slightly better life than average. So long as people aren’t homeless and Starving in the streets.
I have never had a problem with self-defense. My problem is how often some folks talk proactive violence against a fairly vague definition of “bourgeoisie”, or merely “the rich”. And (I’m sure you can understand why I’d have a problem) that some folks talk like I’m in the receiving-end category of proactive violence.
I know it’s not popular here, but I hold Communists to the ACAB-rule. For me to consider respecting a member of ANY group where a substantial percent is advocating for violence against myself or those I care about, or proactive violence at all, I need to know that person strongly and openly opposes that behavior and is part of trying to fix it. If you do that, I’ll happily have a beer with you.
I don’t think Communists and Tankies are the same thing, but a lot of Tankies are pulling “no true scotsman” even here about advocating for violence against (for example) liberals.
If you just happen to be luckily a member of an ingroup. Chances are you will have minimal issue. But that doesn’t mean people don’t. Your personal experience is yours and yours alone. And not shared by everyone.
There is no nebulous definition of bourgeoisie. If you labor, you’re proletariat. Even if you’re sympathies mistakenly lay with the bourgeoisie. If you live off wealth, and use it to amass more wealth. Bourgeoisie. Owners of many, or large company’s and middle management. Bourgeoisie. Landlords/slumlords bourgeoisie. Career politicians? Bourgeoisie. Stock traders etc? Bourgeoisie.
There is more than one type of communist. So your generalization is well, …highly ignorant. However, when it comes to leninists. I strongly agree. Those are the ones you’re referring to. Anarcho-communists have a hard enough time organizing together let alone finding the desire to go after bourgeoisie. They want to be mostly left alone. Authoritarians of any stripe are the problem. Not communists.
And yet nobody minds the aggression of capitalism and the right on anybody other than well off cishet white men 🤔
Across the country LGBTQIA people are being actively censured, stripped of their right to exist, and outright physically assaulted. There’s no concerted trend trend to bitch about THAT violence, but mention a guillotine and half the fediverse comes out to cry about how we’re all just meanie tankies out to murder anybody who makes more than minimum wage.
And yet nobody minds the aggression of capitalism and the right on anybody other than well off cishet white men 🤔
Really? NOBODY minds that? I can’t be pro-LGBTQIA without believing that any possible system except strict communism will work? You’re talking black & white thinking, the same as the anti-LGBTQ extremists. There are miles of Left, even far left, that aren’t Authoritarian Communism (that isn’t authoritarianism but does involve Dictatorship of the Proletariat and the exertion of authority. I was fucking THERE, marching there, when they legalized gay marriage in my state, one of the first in my country. I had a good friend be in the first 50 gay marriages in my state. Does it not count if I’m not a Tankie? All my friends who were out there risking their safety against the Catholic alt-right violence in my state didn’t count?
Look, you touched a nerve here, and I’m trying to take a breath. Maybe I misread you. Are you genuinely trying to say that you can’t oppose far-right violence without being a Communist? Or (perhaps just as bad) are you trying to say that if I’m not ok with violence against queer and transgender individuals that I need to be ok with violence against all liberals?
And I’d like to quantify that I got hit this morning with a dozen replies putting me in the “liberal them” pile, basically agreeing that if I don’t strongly support violence against the non-Communist supermajority, I’m a liberal and have no right to call myself a leftist. I hate the tearing down of the pacifist Left I keep seeing.
you woke tankies are all the same the mind virus is infecting every aspect of our life and culture we must use violence to fight it before we wake one day in the pod eating bugs with no gender and no country
You frame it as killing someone for who they are (rich) while the aggressive communist frames it as what the rich have done (destroy countless lives for personal monetary gain)
Not saying that it’s ok, I wouldn’t condone murder in a public setting of course. Just saying :)
I’m not ok with the death penalty for serial killers and rapists, and I think the laws we have now (if they were enforced) cover for corruption.
I have a rule. No matter how shitty the rules, nobody should die for playing by them. Ex Post Facto protections are a hallmark of preventing justice from being another name for authoritarian persecution. Of all people, it tends to shock me that Communists struggle to see that when they are the first to back extreme versions of ACAB-attitudes.
I know rich people who are… just fucking rich and that’s it. Lottery, good job. Smart little investment. Most rich people don’t destroy lives directly for monetary gain. Is there an indirect effect between wealth distribution and suffering? SURE, but holding someone accountable by violence for something they indirectly effected when it was legal? I just can’t see it no matter how they frame it.
It’s like COVID opposition. When we didn’t have laws against their bullshit (COVID spreader parties?) it is unjust to now go back and pass a law to punish there behavior merely because it caused hundreds of thousands of extra death.
“What is or isn’t politics is itself a political question” mfers when my politic is that nothing is political, there is only what the Irish call craic
Thoughts on George Habash? —He was a good doctor innit
Thoughts on the GERD? —It’s a marvel of engineering innit
Thoughts on indigenous language education? —I like flicking through the Dakota dictionary sometimes. I don’t understand any of it but yeah
Thoughts on the South China Sea? —yummy fishies there innit
Thoughts on trans people using public restrooms? —I’ll answer your question with another question: why’s it called a “public” restroom when you aren’t shitting out in the open?
Thoughts on the world’s interlocking systems of marginalization, exploitation, and oppression, including the core contradiction between the working and owning class, causing the slow demise of the planet under a world order which can only justify itself through unsustainable constant growth? —Them systems can’t be reformed innit (※this opinion is apolitical because I have declared it to be common sense.)
South Dakota in the US here. Very red state. Can’t avoid politics unless I stick my head in the sand even for a moment and let the fascists run unchecked
Upside down in Italy is one of the best places for a fascist to be
Better yet is if they just stop being fascists, but you can’t logic a person out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into, so slim chance of that
Lmao yes, arbitrary generational divides are exactly the same as political divides over who should be allowed to live and thrive in a society. It’s easy to say “let’s all chill and live as a community” if you’re not among the people that the right wants to remove from existence. And even if you’re not, how could you bring yourself to hang out with hateful fucks who would put you on a kill list without a second thought if you were a little darker or a little more neurodivergent?
Trust, nobody wants to just chill and live as a community more than leftists. That’s our whole deal. But as long as capitalism and it’s immune response called fascism exist, everyone outside it (and those of us inside it too) must fight for their survival or be subsumed.
What you’re talking about are extremists. Nobody in their right mind would live in a community with them. What I was trying to say is, that labeling people “leftist”, “right-wing” and any of the other names does more harm than good.
how can you identify extremists if you’re not supposed to talk about people’s politics? how can you even tell what constitutes extremism? this is such a “let’s get back to brunch” take.
There are currently around a hundred thoudand people in concentration camps at the souther border. As of 2018, the DHS reported that they had “lost” 1,488 children. The FBI itself, years ago, published concerns about nazi inflliltration of police and federal organizations. US police forces contain an entire ecosystem of cop gangs, many of which are nazi. These same police forces operate blacksites and execute civil rights organizers. We are currently sending another several billion dollars of weaponry to arm guys with sonnenrad and swastika tattoos. What the fuck have you been smoking if you think the mainstream isn’t extremist.
Unless you're gay or trans or non-religious. While you're doing community activities with me, I'm going to spend every other waking moment trying to get your human rights taken away.
But when I have time, we'll schedule some of those community things.
Exactly! “Why are you making everything about politics?”
I’m a gay person in a red state with first-gen immigrants and trans people in my family. I don’t have the luxury not to “make everything political.” The fact that I exist is political to these people!
Need a politics-free safe space? It’s called “going for a walk”
Unfortunately, walks don't last forever. Another option is to delete your lemmy/kbin account, because everything in these places is politics or related to politics or turned into politics.
There are already, like antiquememeroadshow, adhdmemes and my_mouldy_memes. But the most generic meme communities, or the flagship meme communities if you prefer it that way, are infected.
I wonder if maybe this is a federation thing then given you’re on kbin. Honestly doesn’t seem that bad a problem to me on lemmy.world
And as much as my other comment has a couple of people disagreeing with me, I don’t think the point is unreasonable.
Unless a general purpose meme community explicitly disallows a specific type of content, I don’t see how you can expect to not see it.
Particularly something like politics which people just love making memes about. It’s like complaining about SpongeBob or Star wars memes in the same community, there’s just a lot of that kind of content out there, so you’re gonna see it in general purpose places.
But again, maybe this is a federation thing and I’m not seeing the problems others are on different instances
I don’t see anywhere close to the same amount of political memes on generic meme communities anywhere else i frequent on the internet. Lemmy feels like it consists almost exclusively of political memes.
I guess i wouldn’t mind so much if they were actually funny, but they aren’t. They’re mostly just “haha those people dumb” with zero effort to be funny or clever or anything which could make them interesting after having seen the first 3 or 4 of them.
Yes. After some self thinking about this topic, I realized that my concern is not about politics in general. My concern is about US politics and its big polarization, and about that fight between capitalism and communism. I wouldn't mind politics focused on other countries or Europe, and without that polarization.
The people that whine about safe spaces tend to have safe spaces of their own, and glaringly so, like “free speech” forums that ban people for opposing nazi shit.
Why not? Im a full grown adult person who can objectively look at different opinions, but when it comes to plain old trollposting I can just as well edit them out.
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