“with all that million dollar you still can’t be a doctor, did you know your nephew could play violins blindfolded while performing a surgery when he was still 3 years old. What a disappointment”
I had to do an official test along with a psychological examination for reasons when I was almost 18 years old, so I know at some point I was in the blue zone or above, but it doesn’t really fucking matter when you have autism, a mood disorder and have been neglected by your parents so you never learned things like determination or frustration tolerance. I think I shaved a solid 10 IQ points off anyway from almost a decade of substance abuse issues, so now I’m just autistic and dysfunctional without the gifted part.
Serious question: what kind of drug abuse does it take to shave off 10 IQ points? I’ve done my fair share and would prefer not to have that happen to me - if it hasn’t already.
Yeah the comic reeks of PMC brainworms. I say that as someone with PMC brainworms. “You’re special enough to make decisions, but make sure you cultivate too much self-doubt to make true change.”
This isn’t true at all. IQ isn’t some magical catch-all measure of a person’s intellectual ability, but it’s not entirely total quackery either.
I suspect that academic success would be very strongly correlated with having a supportive home life, but IQ not so much. Maybe the gifted kids you refer to were the academically successful ones and not the high-IQ ones?
They once had me take one of those horoscopes and one part of it was a rorschach test. How is that not quakery.
Another part was to have me write a short text wich fair enough.
fill in mulltiple choise questions that were deliveratly obtuse and ambigous.
The only part that i would expect to corrrelaete with intelligence was when i had to memorize a string of numbers and repeat it after a while. But even then this is an ability you can train.
IQ is bullshit in the sense that as a measurement of cognitive abilities it doesn’t really work, but that doesn’t mean the only factor influencing intelligence is social upbringing either
i mean, say what you will, but i could have the most supportive environment on earth and i’m pretty sure i wouldn’t ever be the second coming of messi (or michael jordan for you gringos), same should go for newton, knorozov or whoever
Of course. Humans are not clones. As long as they are not there is some variance due to physiological inherited factors.
That being said a lot of intelligence can be trained.
And a lot of it is culturally loaded. Im sure the average paleolithic hunter gatherer was smarter than me because they have to constantly solve complex problems. While people today rely on civilization to take on the load.
We dont actually do t need to be that intelligent know a days. And actually very few people relly care about it. For example there is some disiese going around that has about 7% chance of leaving you mentally handicapped. And you can catch it reapeatedly. No one really cares. Because they never came to a situation were their inherent intelligence was the bottleneck to solve a problem. Once eventually everyone loses 10or 20% of their intelligence they will still be fine.
So most of these asholes going woe is me im so samart. 1-Are not really that smart. 2-inherent phisiological limitations to cognitive avility have never been an actual limitation in their lives.
The iq is bullshit in the sense the the tests are bullshit. Only the part testing working memory relates to those innate charachteristics.
You are the one trying to start shit here. If you had a more nuanced response. In this case, an example would be descriving your experience. You would get a more nuanced response. See the other guy.
All I did was say I took an IQ test that didn’t have any of the elements in yours. You came back calling me stupid.
Elaborate on how I started shit with you. Explain yourself. How the fuck do you envision yourself as being justified. How the fuck do you explain your perception of me starting shit with you.
I know lots of people that didn’t grew up in a supportive environment and have a high IQ. I mean on the level of “my parents/father (it’s mostly the father) never cared about me and now I have sevear depression and tried to kill myself” level. And partially they were pregnant at the age of 13/14
And I did grew up in a supportive environment and am stupid as fuck.
Maybe on average, but you’ve got my ass who was put in the gifted program from 2nd grade on, with a single mom who was working two jobs and thus wasn’t around much, and who couldn’t afford childcare so I had to spend most of my before and after school time with my physically violent and abusive grandmother. Not that being in said program did much good (between the bad home situation and my ADHD, I was constantly in trouble at school), I didn’t even finish my bachelor’s in the end, but there were a few of us “smart” kids with fucked up home lives in there too.
I was in the “gifted and talented” program as a kid and all it meant was I got more homework lmao. Good thing I loved reading and actually enjoyed being assigned novel chapters
I think I pretty quickly came to the conclusion that I was effectively being punished for understanding the normal material more easily than my classmates, and I didn’t get why my “gifted and talented” work was necessary, since it was, to me, bonus material, and not even interesting bonus material.
A core memory of mine is after showing up one time without an assignment done, my teacher decided to go around the room asking what everyone wanted to be when they grew up. All my G&T classmates said standard kid answers like doctor, lawyer, firefighter, whatever. Not being a smartass, I gave the genuine answer that, because I really liked Taco Bell, and there was a taco bell in walking distance, I’d be happy to work there and get some free Taco Bell.
Teacher called my parents.
How the fuck was I supposed to know giving a real, and in hindsight significantly more attainable answer was unacceptable? We were in elementary school, so why the hell would I know at that point that basic food service is basically non-viable in America?
At first, us “academically gifted” kids were only separated from the general population for language arts, but later in middle school they expanded the program for math, and the way they implemented that was we skipped 7th grade math entirely and took the normal 8th grade curriculum, “pre-algebra.” So that as a freshman in high school, I would take 10th grade math, etc.
I think I took less time than the average 6th grader to “get it.” I didn’t need 50 practice problems for homework to become proficient in long division, 30 would do. I think a 7th grade math class that included a little less plug and chug practice and more word problems and practical application, ie reinforcing what this math we’re learning is for and how to really use it, would have helped me a lot.
Instead, I was just thrown forward a year and expected to just handle it, and even taking a course called “advanced math topics” which amounted to “algebra 3” rather than taking pre-calculus my senior year of high school, I never caught back up.
Something really similar happened to me in lower grades. As a result of their fuckery I had big gaps in basic math and it caused me problems/self doubt that lasted… Actually I’m still really self conscious about it god dammit. Everyone saw that stupid rain man movie and little ADHD “weird kids” like me that just really liked reading got screwed
I think a good part of that is because ‘average human’ is not a good way to represent who we are individually. I’m probably above average at specific things but in many other respects I’m average or below or wherever I’m supposed to be. Maybe most people are above average even though on average most of us are average.
Fully above average people IMO are like astronauts and stuff. We all live in the shadow of that former navy seal/doctor/astronaut who is like 45 or some crazy shit.
This really depends on the distribution. If some or all of the people in that bottom 20% are very, very stupid it could actually work out that 80% are above average, because the average is being pulled down by the people at the bottom.
This is why we have different averages like mean, median, mode, and RMS because they each give you different interpretations of the raw data. For example the mean electro motive force of the grid is around 0 volts because it spends as much time in the negative as the positive. We use RMS here because negative numbers become positive when squared.
Just the fact that you’re thinking about this in terms of a distribution that’s non-normal indicates that you’re on the right side of that distribution.
To be honest I don’t think intelligence can be boiled down to a single number. Like somebody or something can have a slow processing speed but can do a lot of different things, versus something or someone that is incredibly fast but limited in it’s usage. To some extent this actually happens inside human minds with things like system 1 vs system 2 in psychology having different roles within the brain/mind of a human and being suited to different things (flexible but slow and single tasking vs dumb but fast and parralel in this case).
Also I am considered by my society to have a mental disability. So regardless of how far right of this distribution I might be there are still things I don’t understand that more average people can. You could argue that those things are only domain-specific forms of intelligence but I don’t know if that’s actually true or not. There are too many variables and anomalies we don’t understand.
Fun fact: programs for gifted kids have historically been far more underfunded than programs for other exceptional students.
By the way, the euphemism of “exceptional children” pleases my autistic brain way more than any other word for Special Education students. It has all the compliment-sounding qualities of “Special Needs” but is even more literal than any previous euphemism. It literally means “kids that teachers need to make exceptions for”
“Gifted” programs royally screwed my education. I had huge gaps in my knowledge because they decided that being top percentile in reading/writing (and being the weird kid) meant I could just skip out on classes for special little weird classes or sit with higher grade classes. I just had ADHD btw and really liked to read. Anyway, I would LOVE to know wtf they thought they were doing moving a kid around that much in 3rd-5th. I suffered the hardest with math. I was missing bits and pieces, which is pretty gd important in math, and I’d still somehow get the answers right but talked to about my overly complicated or ✨creative✨ solutions lol. Even now I hide my work if I need to solve something because I’m probably doing it weird… Then later it was really fun finding out that I couldn’t really live up to being “gifted”. 0/10 being special made me less educated.
Skipping classes as a “gifted” kid always seemed like a very weird concept to me, you’re making the child lose a lot of interaction with their peers for dubious reasons. It seems to me like it should only be reserved for the most bulging hyperwrinkled brains, like those kids that finish college by the time they’re 16 or whatever that would obviously be extremely understimulated when going the normal pace. Even then you could argue the gigabrain kid would probably benefit greatly from socializing with their peers, I mean where’s the rush really? They’re young, they can always learn more later.
those kids that finish college by 16 usually just have parents that pay a fuckton of money to skip their kids through the honestly very simple and bleak public schooling experience. has nothing to do with intelligence and everything to do with not dragging out units for ages and paying a small fortune to get private tutors and certified testing done.
For what it’s worth, math can be taught very linearly, but I think it can be explored and approached many different ways. I did the same thing, the teachers would say “I don’t know how, but you got the right answer”.
I kind of wish we leaned more into the way individual kids intuitions of math worked, I think you could teach the foundations much faster that way.
3-5 is mostly arithmetic and intro to word problems anyway, I’m awful at arithmetic but it doesn’t affect doing any of the important parts of math.
was just joking around with a sibling about how some of the most intensely “being highly intelligent is my identity” people from high school with supportive families grew up to be dumb as hell.
the gifted valedictorian became a nurse, then went full “iraq had WMDs, but it was classified” chud, quit the workforce to have 4 children, is a god-tier horder with rooms full of actual garbage, and now is entangled in several MLMs shoveling a spouse’s very high income into a blackhole.
the “actually, i have a 160 IQ” inherited a bunch of $$, bought a bunch of vehicles, had 5 kids, went full blown “dance mom” facebook+social media freakshow, and spends most of their effort trying to cultivate inappropriate relationships and fabricate dramas with other married spouses in their neighborhood.
excellence and success are subjective. a life of curiosity, personal enrichment, family, and friends can be excellent without needing accolades or other features of careerist striving. but i’ll be damned if some really “smart” people don’t take their potential and, in defiance of the odds, turn it into a shit smoothie.
You sound bitter and cruel. Nursing is a wonderful profession that requires a lot of intelligence. There’s nothing wrong with having children. Hoarding is a fucking mental disorder and one of the most intelligent men I know struggled with it.
on the topic of iq, i have a lot of problems with the way people seem to interact with the concept. there’s a bunch of assumptions all baked into it:
iq is a variable that actually exists in nature
people’s iq is static and follows a standard distribution
iq tests are capable of objectively measuring or at least approximating this variable
this variable is a good stand-in or even synonymous with cognitive ability
cognitive ability is univariate or single-faceted, able to be described with a single number
cognitive ability equates to or correlates with usefulness, happiness, sociability, success, whatever
finally, that any of this really matters, like in a materially impactful way, or is something that we should focus on
it’s not that each of these statements is 100% wrong, it’s that each shouldn’t be assumed to be true. but the way i usually see iq invoked kinda just uncritically runs with all of them, contained within a neat little ideological package.
also a pet theory i like (that isn’t actually true or provable) is that gifted programs are meant to remove children deemed smarter from their communities and funnel them into middle management and academia, so they don’t become agitators for change in their communities and workplaces
That could be true, but I think only if there’s a systemic effort to diagnose and put those children into specialized establishments. Where I’m from, it doesn’t appear to be the case.
You’re gifted enough to cruise through the first few stages of your education without trying, so you forge an identity as “the smart kid” but never build up skills in learning or studying, so when you finally get to a level where your natural intelligence can’t carry you anymore you can’t keep up with the people who did learn those skills and you start to fail and lose your identity as the smart kid which causes you to break down because that’d how you defined yourself for so long… or so I’ve heard.
This is actually the reason. Because there is no such thing as “natural intelligence”. Not more than there is “natural strength”. There are natural predispositions, yes, but what you get is function of what training effort you put in. Whether you realise, and/or like, putting effort into training your intelligence, is is another thing. So people who are “above average” were in a favorable environment that fostered their development without it feeling forced, or unnatural. And then, when the environment was replaced by the school’s, it sadly didn’t foster personal development anymore. I would argue we would need to redesign education, now that we have internet. We don’t have to design courses around physical limits.
Because there is no such thing as “natural intelligence”.
Weell, some children have it easier to comprehend stuff on the logical/abstract level than others. Which feeds their curiousity. Which trains their intelligence…
It is also not always about our intelligence but our skill set. I rarely have hard time learning when I want, but issue in my case has been in addition to probable ADHD and mental health issues that the system wasn’t designed to teach me studying.
Also, when you see it happen and you actually start trying and do better but some teachers always give you a lower mark to “motivate” you so you’ll “try even harder”.
First half describes me, second part does not. Never struggled in school or university (although I did fail lectures because I was too lazy to show up for exams).
But I also never defined myself about being “the smart kid”, I always rejected that notion. Society didn’t and still projected it onto me. That’s why I’m breaking down crying every other day. I always tried to help people that do struggle, I always tried to keep my “gift” as far away from conversation as possible. It didn’t matter, I’m a failure.
I feel like you watched me grow up. For a long time I was smart enough to pick things up naturally, I was even offered to skip grades.
Then the math got complicated and I didn’t know how to learn it. I went from being the smart kid to being the stupid one in remedial math. Being smart was all I had at that point, so when I “lost” that, I lost everything in my eyes. I was stupid and I was never going to be anything because of it.
I ended up getting my GED as an adult and I now have a promising career in insurance- so I didn’t really lose everything, but when I was 15 it sure felt like I had.
More or less the same, except I ran out of steam somewhere in the calc 2 to calc 3 area…so instead of becoming an engineer, I became someone who works for them.
In some ways it ain’t bad. I’m “skilled technical staff” whose work makes my position “salary non-exempt”, which means that at most companies/employers, my work gets guaranteed salary pay, but if I am asked to go over 40h in any given week, they’re legally obligated to pay me 1.5x OT pay.
I am crossing this divide now. I have secondary education but no university and I am working to get to med school now (In Finland it is a combined undergrad and med school). I think I can do it but I don’t really know how to study. I know how to learn but learning in schedule is the issue. I was too ill to go to university when I should have and I could have gone to easier courses I could have gone to without an entrance exam and done OK but I always wanted medicine. Or well, I not easier but easier to get into like maths. After I got better I ended up in aid work, and stopping that is really hard. But I still want to become a doctor so I am trying now in my thirties. Having what looks like undiagnosed ADHD that is now under investigation and crappy childhood might explain part of why I never became what people felt I should have but the fact that I never had to learn to study because I didn’t need to get through is up there.
I try to remember that our education does not mean anything for our value, but it seems hard when it comes to you.
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