I remember when Proton launched it was like magic playing games like Doom and Nier Automata straight from the Linux Steam client with excellent performance. I do not miss the days of having the Windows version of Steam installed separately.
I think this may well be the thing that, at long last, eventually leads to the end of the Windows hegemony on PC. Linux compatibility being a prerequisite for running on the default configuration of the Steam Deck. Gaming is the Microsoft OS’s last real stronghold.
Nah. Windows biggest customer is the corporate world. Windows is everywhere. Gaming isn’t much of a factor, especially when the majority of gamers are console players.
I… sort of agree? But also, kids game. Which means (part of) a generation could grow up using Linux systems to game, which makes Linux more palatable to businesses looking to hire those kids. I’m not sure how big a factor that might turn out to be.
Mine are learning more Linux than Windows. They really only use Windows for Office, and only then when Office Online absolutely won’t cut it.
Their laptops dual-boot, but flipping over to Windows is happening so rarely these days (school changed some things around) that I may just have them on Linux going forward.
Bonus round, it’s much easier on them for computer science classes.
First, those boomers do not want to learn Linux. It is a fact.
Actually they usually don’t give a flying F about the OS, they care about the apps they used to get their jobs done. They care about Outlook, Word, Excel, etc.
Also, as someone who just finished 35 years in corporate America, I’ve done retraining of older employees at many multiple companies plenty of times, so your Ageist assumption is not correct.
And finally, again, I was just commenting about hardware sales and how gaming drives that, and how an OS rides piggyback on top of the hardware sales.
Yes, but the discussion wasn’t about how Microsoft makes its money, it was about how important gaming was to promoting one OS over another, via hardware sales…
Gaming isn’t much of a factor, especially when the majority of gamers are console players.
And I would argue gaming is a big part of that, which is what my original reply was about.
For entirely different use cases. The corporate world loves Linux for servers, but exceedingly few will use it for workstations, and generally only for developers even then
And even then the majority of developers aren’t on Linux cause the AM and ManagedInstalls doesn’t work as well as Mac or Windows.
The F500 I work for is almost entirely mac, with the few stragglers on windows for specific applications. Linux just doesn’t support the same kind of enterprise tools that the other 2 main OS’s do.
I’m still waiting for games to release on Linux with good compatibility, I hope that’s the case since the steam deck has been out for a bit. Unfortunately every Linux native game I’ve tried so far has had some issues that were resolved switching to wine
I’ve got a GTX980ti, which runs fine with my POP_OS setup, but I’ll be switching to AMD for my next GPU as well. If for no other reason than to not support Nvidia.
Nouveau drivers are not made by Nvida? What are you even talking about? They are third party drivers that are not even fully functional because Nvida will not open source their own drivers for linux.
It’s trouble is in that it severely lacks features that it have on Windows, especially newest popular stream add-ons like voice and background blurring, troubles with Ray tracing and dlss, and most infamous problem is that Nvidia drivers absolutely would break your system updates eventually, and it can break your whole system Edit: source: i have laptop with Nvidia gpu
The nvidia drivers can be a pain, and some distributions don’t care about nVidia’s support schedule and push a kernel update and nVidia will no longer compile.
Also, the fact that a kernel update means the nvidia driver must recompile is a pain.
I’m holding out hope for the open drivers (they basically moved all the proprietary bits to run on the GPU) to eventually mean that the premiere nVidia experience is already integrated at some point in the future.
Nouveau? I’ve not exactly had a very reliable experience, and as far as I can see Nvidia doesn’t really help to ensure that works in a timely way or a reliable way.
I’m using an Nvidia GPU on my POP!_OS Gaming PC it runs mostly without issue. The few times there has been driver problems, there’s been an easy fix on System76’s homepage soon after
I switched to Linux on my gaming PC about five or six years ago and tried a couple of different distros. Manjaro was the first one that worked really well for me, and I played through the original RAGE and Mass Effect using that setup, but for the last couple of years I’ve used POP!_OS, after Manjaro broke a couple of times. I’m never going back to Windows, mostly thanks to Proton. Even Elder Scrolls Online works really well using Proton.
Wine developers. Yes, Valve/Proton has given it a big boost in the last few years but the Wine project has been under steady development for 30 years, almost as long as Linux itself. I remember trying it for the first time back in the day and being amazed that it could run Minesweeper.
For most games I’m sure you can find a way to do it. If you use protontricks you are able to run an exe under a proton prefix for a game (basically a virtual windows drive in a folder for the game) which I’ve had pretty decent luck with.
If you play games that support mod organizer 2, there is a sh install script somewhere for support in proton/steam that works well (I can find if you like), but the program does run pretty slow and is fairly buggy. Usable with patience. Upside is it can run MO2 for a given game direct from steam if configured correctly
My son does tmodloader via steam, but I think its native Linux. Works without issue.
I play WoW and run Trade Skill Master (in the same wine bottle prefix). I also run RaiderIO/WoW Up/CurseForge (Linux native).
I had issues with mods for The Forest and Sons of the Forest. Never got them working.
FF XIV DPS meter worked after a lot of tinkering. Had to go to a specific discord to get the info as the modders didn’t keep their READMEs in GitHub up to date. Wish that shit was searchable.
For terraria tmodloader works no issue, I think forge has a native client for WoW, and Minecraft is linux native anyway EDIT: I only ever modded terraria and minecraft so idk about any more
Same as far as I can tell. I installed model swap mods for several games, workshop mods for binding of isaac and terraria, and did other random things to games like tweak configs and shit. All of it worked fine. The biggest issues I had is installing random old games in my collection to my steam deck that weren’t on steam already, and even that I still managed to make it work.
It varies but generally if there is a will there is a way. Sometimes it just works, sometimes intervention required.
Typical things that may or may not be needed depending on game:
Windows packages and/or Dll overrides via launch arguments or winecfg/protontrick
Separate wine prefix with specific weird wine build to run mod managers or editors etc. with links to relevant directories in game prefix
Case insensitivity which can be set per directory on empty directories on ext4 (poorly made mods only usually)
Searching “[game name] mods [steam deck or linux]”
Regretting all of that to find that there is a Linux mod loader that works 100% but google stopped giving meaningful search results decades ago and the reddit trick doesn’t work as well post api-suicide.
Not only it works very often but one can even check www.protondb.com before buying to make sure it does work. It also works for VR games. I recently tried a brand new game, supposedly “Windows only”, and it worked without any tinkering. I then updated ProtonDB to clarify so that others could play too. It’s simple I didn’t boot on Windows to play for years now. I’m also traveling today and instead of bringing a laptop I bring my SteamDeck to play, to work I’ll also bring a BT keyboard.
TL;DR: it works, even with VR, and ProtonDB can help to identify problems
What profits did Valve say that to exactly? They were shipping a device that didn’t have an existing OS that worked for it. I know companies have been shipping handheld PCs since the 90s but they never took off because the experience of Windows on a mobile device sucks, full stop.
I’m very happy they did this and it will help lots of things, but it’s about as altruistic as Apple making WebKit open source. A massive boon to the community that did help everyone, but the goal wasn’t altruism. It was to create a software solution where one didn’t exist to improve a for-profit device.
Plus, not having to pay Microsoft for OEM Windows licenses helps too.
You are looking too short term. Valve has been very concerned about Microsoft for a long time (maybe a decade now?). They have traditionally been dependent on the Windows platform while Microsoft has a competing built-in store and the Xbox product line. This means that they are dependent on one of their biggest competitors. If Microsoft wasn’t concerned about anti-competitive legal action they probably would have smited them already.
Especially with macOS dying for gaming and iOS having no third-party stores they have made multiple pushes into Linux as a platform where they don’t depend on Microsoft. While the Steam Deck has been very successful, they have already blown money of failed attempts in the past and running Windows on the Steam Deck would likely not be a huge cost (bulk licenses are cheap and they are spending a lot of money on Linux development).
So whether or not they are making more or less money in the short term doesn’t appear to be Valve’s motivation. Their primary motivation is to unlock themselves from Microsoft, whether or not that is best for profits right now.
I agree but I don’t think that contradicts anything I said. This is definitely a long term plan to end up with a gaming focused OS that people can use instead of Windows to reduce their reliance on MIcrosoft. It’s definitely a long term decision.
However in the short term, a Steam Deck with Windows would have been far less exciting. Developing WebKit also was clearly a plan for a much better web landscape too and cost far more than Safari ever generated until it was in iOS.
I only take issue with this being cast as some altruistic act, which it isn’t. It’s just one of those situations where the goals of the community and the company align, because the company is very focused on delivering a good user experience above all else. This is a great move for everyone involved and Valve deserves praise for that. But that’s no reason to be naive to how this greatly benefits them.
I’m not sure how Valve is seen to forfeit any Windows related profit.
They are still thoroughly supporting Windows. A Windows gaming system will have Steam on it, and most gamers still prefer Steam while on Windows.
When Windows 8 happened with the Microsoft store, Valve saw the writing on the wall for the eventual problems they would face, and did SteamOs and SteamBoxes. However, not much skin off their back, as they didn’t “bet the company” or anything. It then pretty much let those efforts die off when the Microsoft Store wasn’t quite the imminent existential threat it looked to be. However, the Xbox-ification of the Windows ecosystem may prove to be a more imminent and dire threat now that Microsoft realized that “hey, we actually do have a gaming brand that enjoys some popularity and is basically just a Windows box already”.
So Valve saw that the Nintendo Switch was such a hit and extrapolated to PC space. They could have had a horribly awkward device running Windows, which has forever sucked at serving this form factor and is not even vaguely amenable to ‘total controller control’. However they decided to revive the SteamOS efforts since it was moderately close to enable them to actually deliver a pad-first UI for a handheld, with Valve branding front and center rather than Microsoft.
So the closest I can see to that claim is that Steam Deck opted out of supporting a handful of games (that also likely don’t work well on the relatively low end specs anyway) rather than trying to make a Windows hand-held work against all the design points of Windows.
I think the implication is that pursuing Linux development has a high opportunity cost, that, if they just bought into Windows as the foundation, they could’ve used that time to build HL3 or whatever
Then you’d have a windows based steam deck. Valve got themselves into the mobile market by doing this. I imagine the Linux ecosystem will prove better for continuing mobile gaming in the long run.
Also, there are multiple scripts for HL3 and Portal3. They have all been rejected, considered not up to par as a third game in each series.
Imagine how much else humanity could do if they said that. Even just once more, fuck the profits, let’s give people a 4 day work week with 6 hours per day.
I still remember having to use Ubuntu back in 2007.
To cut a long story short, I used to have a crappy Packard Bell PC that was weirdly partitioned (the main C:\ partition named Programs had 20GB and D:\ named Data had 120GB allocated.)
A (obviously now former) friend at school who thought he was hot-shit with PCs nagged and pressured me into acquiring a copy of Norton PartitionMagic and merging the two partitions. Completely totalled the Windows XP installation and because I didn’t have any recovery media, I was forced to wipe everything and install Linux.
Gaming on Ubuntu back in 2007 was a nightmare. Only thing I managed to run that wasn’t some shitty FOSS game that looked like it was made for the Net Yaroze was WoW, and even then actually installing the damn game was a nightmare where I had to resort to literally copying files from each install CD because actually running the installer from the CD itself resulted in failure by Disc 3. Every other game I tried to run through Wine either refused to boot at all, had bugs that would soft-lock my PC, or put out 0.01 frames per second due to lack of OpenGL support.
Linux has evolved by leaps and bounds but still has some way to go before you could use it as a gaming OS. Hopefully the Steam Deck encourages more developers to support Linux.
Of course, some devs have turned their back on Linux, such as post-Fortnite Epic Games.
but [Linux] still has some way to go before you could use it as a gaming OS
maybe a nitpick, but I think it’s more accurate to say it has some way to go before everyone could use it as a gaming OS. many many people can use it as is right now. All the games I play work great on Linux so far, I removed windows from my gaming PC months ago.
if you’re already into Linux and you don’t care about competitive games with anti cheat, then Linux is ready to be your gaming OS right now imo
Yup. I’ve played everything I’ve wanted to play on Linux with only one minor stumble getting ea launcher to work, and it was literally just selecting a different version of proton than I had as default.
It amazes me how many people come to the Linux communities on lemmy just to tell people that Linux isn’t good enough and we have to still use windows…
It amazes me how many people come to the Linux communities on lemmy just to tell people that Linux isn’t good enough and we have to still use windows…
People, or “People”?
Between the Steam client and the Bottles app (for games not on Steam) I play every game I ever wanted to on Linux. I don’t even have a dual boot setup anymore.
I’ve overall had a decent experience playing games on my Steam Deck. A lot of incompatible games but the ones that not only do work but are verified have shocked me greatly.
Valve have single handedly evolved Linux gaming by leaps and bounds.
Also, Frets on Fire, which was a much shittier attempt at creating a freeware clone of Guitar Hero. Thankfully Clone Hero came out over a decade later.
The steam deck inspired me to finally ditch Windows for good. I have dealt with it for the past 15+ years professional and I grew so damn tired of it. Built myself a nice little gaming PC running pop is and I’m quite pleased!
Mac as a laptop, steamdeck for gaming. There is a Win 11 VM on my unraid server for the occasional poke at something but I can’t say I miss windows in any way…
Same on the laptop and Unraid server actually, lol. But I don’t run any VMs on it at all. Hardware is a bit old so I don’t know how much it could run effectively.
I’ve used Ubuntu on many occasions but tried PopOS since last week.
It’s surprisingly good. Lots of ergonomics over Ubuntu. They have a version of the iso prepackaged with Nividia drivers.
Most surprisingly, after some install busted my sound devices (they stopped showing up), I discovered PopOS has a system refresh button that saves your home directory but reinstalls the OS to a fresh state. Very convenient.
Iam using a Laptop with a thunderbolt connected gtx1070. Does someone have experience or tips using linux and gaming with a setup like that. That and (solidworks) are the last reasons i didn’t switch already.
because @clegko mentions shit support :( , maybe look at the framework laptop for your next upgrade? they are doing some stuff with replaceable parts, and the newest one even swappable gpu’s.
Sadly my current laptop is kinda new (half a year) and I searched way to long, because I have a weird taste. (I am used to hardware mouse buttons, so thinkpads are mostly the only option. I also dislike the odd haptic gummy feeling of premium thinkpads, which only some models don’t have (for example T490s, T14sG1 and G2) or the Yoga X1 series which is aluminum, which I gladly found a nice deal of the 2019 model.
Honestly, I’m considering risking the jump to something like Pop OS. If my games ran well on Linux, I probably would have no reason to stay on windows outside of for my work computers.
I daily Pop OS, it’s overall pretty good. Drivers are super easy to deal with, and the Pop Shop has a lot of game-related apps ready to install. Biggest headache is that sometimes my Mic just won’t work and I have to reboot. That, and steam does Vulkan Shader Compilation on every game launch it seems, which can be a pain
Add comment