How to choose a computer/laptop/device that is better compatible with linux? Are there certain things to look out for when shopping?

I apologize if this has been asked a ton, still migrating to lemmy. Still stuck on crappy reddit out of habbit, but i’ve found the lemmy universe to be much more helpful.

Basically I’ve had a Dell Xps 13 9310 laptop for 4-5 years maybe? and I’ve put the thing through hell and back. Always (I believe) fixing it though and bringing it back to life. However, it seemed as if any linux distro i ever installed always had some sort of problems. I don’t know Linux well enough yet to be able to trouble shoot because it seems there’s many different routes to do it in Linux.

I’ve gone through so many distros and DEs and have tried everything on this thing. Well I think I finally bricked it after tinkering around with it. So I’m trying to plan a new budget setup.

I’ve always been a laptop guy because I love being able to lay on the couch by the TV and also have my laptop right there in front of me. I suppose im open to a small form or mini form desktop or box and just get a small display and a wireless keyboard/touchpad combo.

I just don’t know how to find what’s better compatible with linux. I see so much talk about “X” computers being great for Linux and to avoid “Y” computers because they dont work well with Linux (which I found out the newer Dells kinda suck. becoming more locked down and proprietary like Apple). I know there’s companys like Tuxedo or Pine or Pop Os that sell their specific Linux friendly devices, but those are all too expensive for me.

I’m looking for a machine that can easily handle Linux but also handle I guess a system or network, basically something strong enough to be a stable link in my entire network; if that makes sense. Because I have many plans for things I want to learn about and add to my network or system down the road. Also something durable and fairly user friendly.

The million dollar question(s)… how am I supposed to know which machines are better or even “compatible” with Linux? like all linux distros or flavors? I ran into a firmware/driver issue with my Dell and linux… they provided only a handful of drivers/firmware for ONLY Ubuntu 20.04. super limited and meant as a windows machine. As far as ram and storage, those are probably not pertinent and more of personal preference. But I guess it boils down to things like the cpu, gpu, ram, idk, whatever is important for Linux? any tips or advice is greatly appreciated. I want to finally take this serious and ensure I have the right equipment for what I want to do instead of falling for the newest, shiny things lol. Thanks

MasterNerd,

The arch wiki is a great source for this. Usually I’ll just search the model and it’ll come up.

I found your laptop there for reference: wiki.archlinux.org/title/Dell_XPS_13_(9310)

Smokeydope,
@Smokeydope@lemmy.world avatar

Old thinkpads are the golden standard of Linux compatible laptops, far superior build quality compared to the crap they put out today. Cheap and durable, if a little outdated in specs. TLP is a popular battery management tool that have specific built integration with thinkpads. I managed to snag a couple thinkpads through FB marketplace pre covid for under 200$ each, my daily driver being a t460 made in 2015. i7 quad core processor, 16gb ram, its weakest link is the Intel onboard GPU. The newer thinkpads let you use thunderbolt 3.0 to plug in an external GPU but there’s a trade off between how new a thinkpad is and its build quality. The old ones could be used as body armor plates and probably stop a 50 cal bullet and boot up fine afterwards, the new ones not much

Macaroni9538,

so what i’ve been doing is finding various models through the generations and researching their cpu’s and oddly enough, nearly every one i’ve put in has had subpar ratings or rankings… idk if that really matters or not

Smokeydope,
@Smokeydope@lemmy.world avatar

It depends on what you expect your laptop to do. 8gb ram and a 2.4ghz i5 quad core processor is acceptable for almost any computing task out side of playing heavier load video games or specialty IT stuff like LLMs or cryptomining. If your main concern is video games go with the base model steam deck. Also, when you go check out listing for used think pads you will find they contain wildly different specs even if they are the same series. This is because the companies that bought them new X years ago spend some sweet corporate cash on decking them out with the at-the-time highest end options ordered custom from lenovo, and then they throw them in the literal trash a decade later. Some people who dig them out and resell on facebook don’t know a thing about computers and think they are only worth the base options used price.

Macaroni9538,

This helps alot actually because tbh, I don’t know what “works” good together as far as ram and cpu specs

Smokeydope, (edited )
@Smokeydope@lemmy.world avatar

Glad to have helped you out. Whatever you decide to get, I highly recommend you give Linux Mint a try next. I started with ubuntu, went to mint and haven’t looked back since. Its been my daily driver for half a decade now and has worked absolutely perfectly with every laptop and desktop ive ever owned. My elderly parents use mint without issue every day.

A quick cheat sheet for understanding computer spec lingo:

Ram:

4gb = bare minimum

8gb = pretty good

16gb = awesome

Intel CPU cores:

duo/two cores = bare minimum

quad core/four cores = pretty good, most common

more = awesome

Intel CPU processor

i3 = bare minimum

i5 = pretty good

i7 = awesome

Intel CPU processing speed measured in gigahertz ghz

2.x ghz = average

3.x ghz = awesome

hard drive

HDD = Slower and more limited lifespan but ok, tends to be higher storage space than SSD for cheaper

SSD = Faster and much longer lifespan, usually only goes up to 256GB but its possible to find 512GB. More expensive than HHDs

Harddrive Storage Space

100GB = bare minimum

256GB = average

512GB = pretty good

1TB = Awesome

Upgrading

You can have a computer shop upgrade harddrives to a multi terabyte SSD as well as replace the batteries for you if you do your research and provide it for them.

Another big win for thinkpads is theres lots of documentation on upgrading, and you can order official parts right from lenovo vendors through their website Which is huge for replacing batteries when they degrade to the point of annoyance. Thinkpads have an external battery and an internal one both you can replace to get supposedly about 10 hours of battery life. I get like 3 at this point so I may be considering this option soon. The Linux command TLP can help you get a good estimate on how degraded your batteries are.

Anyways Good luck!

ransomwarelettuce,

In my experience it comes down to avoid nvdia and check for the network/wifi chipset support on linux.

mfat, (edited )

As a genera rule avoid Nvidia. Also google the fingerprint sensor and wifi model before buying. General advice like “Thinkpads are fully linux compatible” is rubbish. Take your time to Google all idiosyncrasies of your desired model.

Macaroni9538,

Im just most concerned about it being linux user friendly and fairly durable, as I tend to mess things up and wipe my drive sorts often lol hey, i’m learning! don’t game so don’t need Nvidia, check. don’t need a fingerprint sensor, check. so what is it that actually makes linux more compatible with some computers but not others? does it boil down to the cpu???

mfat,

Focus on what you’re going to use the laptop for and choose your hardware accordinly. Linux will work great as long as your hardware is not unsupported. So don’t worry about that at all.

ramius345,

Use a system76 laptop for work. Came with popos and works like a charm.

Macaroni9538,

I oughtta browse ebay and see if anybody’s selling some system76 stuff. I gotta see what to do with my Dell Xps 13 9310 thats stuck in manufacturing mode first. probably sell for parts or idk?

thecrotch,

I usually go for business level dells, like latitudes. They’re the go-to for corporations so they’re usually pretty well supported simply because they’re so common

Macaroni9538,

I have also heard this sentiment, that enterprise/business level hardware is best, even for personal use

p_q,

they pretty much all run linux ootb. Question is: What devices run without binary blobs underneath the OS?

Macaroni9538,

Sorry, over my head on what a binary blob is lol does it have anything to do with proprietary stuff?

HumanPerson,

IIRC it means a binary large object. Typically a proprietary part of firmware. Commonly needed for WiFi cards but there are other things too.

Macaroni9538,

Aha! so im not so stupid after all lol I was pretty much right. so how do you figure which manufacturers or even models are more open source and less proprietary?

stella,

Buy it, install Linux, see if it works.

If it doesn’t, return it and buy something else.

Computers usually have 30-days no questions asked return policies.

If you’re listening to people that say to buy specific things, then odds are you going to be paying more for less.

Don’t let their theory replace your experience.

Macaroni9538,

Well that’s the thing, I can’t afford to buy new where you can just return it and all that; I’ll most likely be buying a refurb or used or older but new piece of equipment or possibly piecing together my own, depending on what i can learn about what I need for a smooth and easily fixable linux system

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

In general its not about the CPU or GPU. Even Nvidia works kinda okay on some Devices, at least according to Nick from TheLinuxExperiment. Some apps like Davinciresolve require it, and cuda is also only supported on Nvidia. Mobile AMD graphics are kinda underpowered for some tasks.

Its more about weird hardware that isnt supported, Fingerprint readers, even keyboards going into some weird hibernation and you need to hard reset the PC as you cant control it anymore (Acer swift). Some devices like Microsoft Surfaces need a custom kernel.

Lots ot refurbished business laptops like the Lenovo T series, HP or Dell business series works well, as they also dont have weird components.

Check linux-hardware.org and if you have a running laptop, install their HWprobe and run it, to share that your laptop is working. With comments you can add what is really working etc.

Personally I would also care about Coreboot. Checkout Novacuston (EU) or System76 or Starlabs, they have Coreboot laptops. I mean, installing Linux on some laptop with a proprietary garbage Bios that doesnt get updates (!!!) anymore is pretty hypocritical. Coreboot is awesome but rare, its awesome that there are some companies and people making it run on new hardware, so I would check those out.

And… maybe dont get an M1 Macbook ;D

Macaroni9538,

good advice, thank you! oh ok, so since im on a budget and i’ll likely be buying refurbed or used, it’ll likely be an older machine. would older computers but from the good companies mentioned still be capable of running newer versions/kernels of distros?

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

Welcome to Linux! Every hardware runs everything. Its not Mac or Android. Old Devices work always, as the drivers already exist. Only reeeally old stuff gets thrown out of the kernel.

Thinkpad T430’s have a pretty high price on Ebay currently, I have one and its a great laptop, nice keyboard, Coreboot/Heads/Libreboot/1vyrain custom BIOS all run. But it is a really old Laptop.

Bought a Clevo MZ41 on Ebay, will attempt to flash coreboot. Was not pricey too.

Try Thinkpads, Dell, Hp. Normally older Acer or Asus too. If you find a laptop with

  • good 1080p display
  • good keyboard in your language/ you dont care about stickers
  • good battery life
  • everything normal broken, not completely old

Just search for “Linux MODEL” and you will probably find some reports.

For new hardware you want a recent Distro, Fedora (try Kinoite! ublue.it), OpenSuse Tumbleweed (try Kalpa) or EndeavorOS for easy Arch, are all good. Maybe avoid ubuntu, or use something like PopOS or TuxedoOS, which are better versions of Ubuntu, with newer packages and less annoying crap like Snap.

I am not sure if you already use Linux, but some general tips:

  • try to use Flatpaks from Flathub as much as possible. They are already often officially supported and have less bugs. Also the apps are isolated from your system, so they are more up to date, dont break your system, keep system upgrades small, and they have privacy advantages
  • use a Distro that supports Wayland very well. X11 is stupidly old and will be completely unsupported in a few years. Its already dead since a few years, as nothing changes.
  • try an “immutable”, image based Distribution like Fedora Atomic (Kinoite (KDE), Silverblue (Gnome)) or Opensuse Kalpa (KDE) or Aeon (Gnome). They are simply modern, stable, resettable and your changes are transparent.
  • if you want to do any crazy stuff like code, install apps with many dependencies, do it in a Distrobox. You can install apps normally, but they are still not bloating your system. If you dont need them, delete the Distrobox and your system is clean again. This goes especially for strange University etc. software that needs to be installed with some script or something.
  • use a root Distrobox if you need things like USB
  • use fish as your normal shell, simply by editing the Terminals “open command”. That way your shell in the Distroboxes has a different configuration, fish looks nice and colorful and has stuff like autocompletion.
  • do backups of your system and your data. Just do that always, on an extra drive. It saves so much horror of losing everything, if a drive breaks or your laptop gets stolen or whatever. If you want Cloud backups, use Cryptomator and any cloud you want.
  • use Syncthing, maybe disable global discovery for LAN only, for syncing your data between two or more specific devices.
  • use soundbound, SoundCloud Downloader (Firefox Addon) and youtube downloaders as long as they work. Download all of your music to not be dependend on those companies
  • try waydroid for Android apps on Linux. Use F-Droid basic as the application store, and check for “list of f-droid repositories” and add some.
Macaroni9538,

Wow, I truly appreciate this response. So i’ve been using Linux for a decade and know a “fair” amount, never made it a goal to learn the ins and outs, though I am now. So I hear business laptops make great linux machines. My main question is, most of the computers within my budget that are “known” to be decent linux machines are very old. Are they capable of still keeping up with all the newest and latest versions of distros? or are you stuck on older models just because the nature of the device being older?

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

No XD again, every hardware runs every distro.

Rule of thumb, avoid intel generations younger than 7-8 and avoid i3, on AMD I am not sure but probably the same. Avoid weird cheap brands you never heard, chances are huge that nobody cared to support every hardware piece of them.

Best are noname OEMs like Tongfang and Clevo, if you get those, chances are very good and they are cheaper.

Also a little reminder from debloating a Windows “Gaming laptop” today. Windows doesnt support shit, its the manufacturers making the hardware work by bloating the system with horrible software.

Macaroni9538,

wait a sec, kinda contradicting here. you said to avoid weird cheap brands but then you told me to buy weird cheap brands… lol sorry im confused

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

No, these OEMs are noname but not cheap. They are noname because they produce PCs sold under different Brand names. Many Linux Laptops use Tongfang or Clevo hardware, put some branding on there and custom parts and thats it.

Macaroni9538,

Aha I see! thanks for the info. I think i’m going thinkpad though, just gotta decide which model. they are incredibly cheap! especially for what you get

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

The hardware is great. The BIOS is god awful.

qyron,

As a general recommendation: whatever you get, try your best to have an AMD core.

Not a tech guru in any way but any AMD machine is just more friendly for linux

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

Intel integrated graphics and CPU are better imho. I have no GUI way of controlling energy saver on AMD while thats there in intel. Like changing the governor and all. Thats not even remotely there on AMD, there are apps but not on Fedora at least yet.

stella,

This is a lie told often enough it’s become true.

qyron,

As anecdotal as this may be, out of several machines I owned and installed and reinstalled over the years, AMD centric were always easier to install, while installing Intel based machines from friends and family always got me grinding my teeth out of frustation.

I vouch for AMD based on my history with working it - and I repeat: I am not a tech guru - even without putting linux support on the table. I’ve ran AMD machines for over a decade, with no hardware problems, while I had Intel based hardware fail me in three or four years.

nyan,

More recommendations mean more people using the hardware. More people using the hardware means more testing. More testing means more people learning and documenting how to fix problems. So in that sense, statements like that actually do become true over time regardless of their truth values at the beginning.

Macaroni9538,

Really??? I have always heard the opposite, that Intel is best for Linux? who knows

qyron,

My personal experience comes from running several machines over the years and AMD always returned the best results, from laptops to desktops.

My current desktop is reachin 11 years of service and still reliable.

Macaroni9538,

Don’t think I have much experience with AMD, almost always Intel. Are there certain generations that are like cutoff for being too old to be stable, quick, and performant?

qyron,

My first laptop was a MSI AMD+Nvidia, circa 2005. It was a low spec machine yet it outperformed and outlived laptops coworkers had with higher specs. Back then I used Ubuntu and drivers were available out of the box. It managed cpu better and the machine ran smoother than under windows, which would stress the cpu more. Ran it for almost 9 years and I retired it because it made no sense spending the €100+ to have the graphics card repaired.

From that point forward, all my AMD machines were always responsive and reliable.

My current desktop is already 10 years (Sempron based) old and it outperforms my laptop, which is 5 years younger (AMD as well).

I am a bit of a Linux missionary and every single machine I ever managed to bring to the dark side always ran smoother under Linux, regardless the core, but Intel often posed some extra hurdle to install. One particular case I still remember today was a laptop that required to manually install network card drivers, both wired and wireless. The required driver was available in the installer but it always failed to load.

I’ll risk anything from the last 10 years will be good. I’d personally recommend a minimum of 8GB of ram, DDR3. The technology is really cheap and mature at this point.

rollerbang,

Maybe Slimbook? I haven’t bought one yet but it’s definitely on my close watch.

slimbook.es/en/

WindowsEnjoyer,

I think your best bet is Framework laptops. If not, ThinkPads have superior Linux support.

Otherwise, pick your favorite model and read online. Also see if you can find your preferred model on Arch Wiki (laptop page).

Myself some time ago I’ve purchased Asus laptop. Spent quite some time (hobby) to get everything working (e.g. fan control) and documented everything in Arch Wiki.

Then I’ve got Asus Zenbook. Also had to participate in kernel bug report and test, because there were no audio. Eventually it got fixed in upstream and started to work.

Then I’ve got MSI gaming laptop. Had to participate in Intel DRM code issue, because 2K 240Hz panel was limited to 2K60Hz mode and eventually it got fixed too in upstream. Few workarounds are there and there, but eventually got it to work almost 100%, but audio is a bit…broken. Works fine, just first few secs after silence are silent.

Basically what I am trying to tell - manufacturers might introduce software-controlled hardware features that might work only in Windows. It requires experience and extensive knowledge to make everything manageable on Linux. :)

InputZero,

A warning about Framework, they’re on the bleeding edge of modular laptop design (not hardware). So while they may shift laptop design entirely, the bleeding edge always cuts. I don’t know anyone with a Framework laptop and if you’re the first person you know IRL to have one be prepared for unexpected issues. I really hope the idea takes off but I don’t envy the first adopters.

recarsion,

Avoid Kaby Lake processors. I specifically have i7-7600u in my laptop and must use a kernel parameter otherwise it kernel panics freezes minutes after booting. Sometimes it still freezes when waking up from sleep or hibernate. Something to do with power management or such.

Macaroni9538,

Yup my dell xps 13 had kaby lake processors, not all cores though.

silencioso,

Buy it from tuxedo

Macaroni9538,

man, can’t afford their gear unfortunately. my plan was to get my dell xps 13 9310 fixed (bios stuck in manufacturing mode) then sell that and use whatever I make to purchase my next device. in the mean time I get to use this old old probably decade old asus machine :)

AlexanderESmith,
@AlexanderESmith@kbin.social avatar

@Macaroni9538

I've been using Clevo laptops for years. Large user base, lots of great Linux support. I just run Ubuntu, haven't had many issues (and no critical issues).

They usually get rebranded, and I've gotten them through IBuyPower, Origin, and... can't remember the other one. My most recent one was just straight up marketed as a Clevo, got it on Amazon.

You might have one or two odd issues (like having to install custom code to configure the RGB key backlights), but there are plenty of users to ask for assistance on various forums and repos.

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