Did we kill Linux's killer feature?

A few years ago we were able to upgrade everything (OS and Apps) using a single command. I remember this was something we boasted about when talking to Windows and Mac fans. It was such an amazing feature. Something that users of proprietary systems hadn’t even heard about. We had this on desktops before things like Apple’s App Store and Play Store were a thing.

We can no longer do that thanks to Flatpaks and Snaps as well as AppImages.

Recently i upgraded my Fedora system. I few days later i found out i was runnig some older apps since they were Flatpaks (i had completely forgotten how I installed bitwarden for instance.)

Do you miss the old system too?

Is it possible to bring back that experience? A unified, reliable CLI solution to make sure EVERYTHING is up to date?

ReversalHatchery,

If your problem is Flatpaks, Snaps and AppImages, just remember that manually installed software can’t be updated with the same command either, and installing software manually is fortunately not a new thing.

Here’s the solution, though: don’t use flatpaks, snaps appimages, instead rely on your outdated distro packages only.
Personally I only use appimages, because I don’t want the resource overhead of the other 2

oo1,

no.
it's open source.

nous,

The killer feature is getting applications from a central repo, not so much that there was only one repo. Unlike windows where you have each application self updating or not updating at all and forcing you to have to go to several webpages to update things. Having to update two different repos IMO is not a huge problem, you just need to be aware of it and there are frontends to these systems that can update both at once. The only exception to that I think are AppImages - but those you don’t really need to use on most distros.

yak,
@yak@feddit.it avatar

You can use the great topgrade!

eager_eagle,
@eager_eagle@lemmy.world avatar

This should be up

Syudagye,
@Syudagye@pawb.social avatar

Well, one way to address this would be to have a little hook that triggers when you do a full system upgrade, and it updates your flatpaks.

also flatpaks are still centralized thanks to flatpak itself, same for snaps, nix, cargo and similar package managers. It’s not like you have to update every single app by yourself, like for AppImages and apps on windows or macos for example.

ulu_mulu, (edited )

The solution is using a distro that has support for containers (flatpaks preferably) but doesn’t force them on you, so far I haven’t found a single use case in which they’re truly needed on desktop so apt update still does everything for me.

There’s some software that I compile myself (emulators), it cannot be upgraded with a packet manager but that has always been the case.

I use Linux MX but there are other distros with the same approach. It also makes it really easy to see if you’re installing them because flatpak is a separated repository from non-container apps (I think it’s also updated by the package manager but I haven’t tried so far).

pfannkuchen_gesicht,

Solution? We’re not here to find solutions! We’re here to yearn for the good old days!

kratoz29,

Huh, I stopped using Linux long ago, and I hardly understand any of the issues you are facing… can someone ELI5?

Quazatron,
@Quazatron@lemmy.world avatar

Packages are native to the distribution you are using.

All the other are apps packaged as all in one mini containers.

Your software manager should be capable of handling all this in a fairly reasonable way.

You may want to research this topic a bit, but use whatever works and don’t read too much into these nerd discussions.

kratoz29,

Thank you!

raven,

Recently there’s been a push on Linux for containerized “apps” that come bundled with their dependencies windows style. Ubuntu has been the one really pushing this with their implementation called “snaps” which has made a lot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad idea.

kratoz29,

I see, thank you for the heads up.

Furycd001,
@Furycd001@fosstodon.org avatar

@mfat I don't have snap or flatpak installed in any of my systems, therefore my entire system is still all upgraded with a single command....

transigence,
@transigence@kbin.social avatar

Perhaps a small bash script to iterate through all of the package delivery mechanisms' for updating everything?

gnuplusmatt,

It doesn’t even need to be a script you could just alias the 2 commands on a single line to a command in bashrc

CalcProgrammer1,
@CalcProgrammer1@lemmy.ml avatar

This is why I prefer native packages over Flatpak, AppImage, Snap, etc. I want my entire system managed under one roof. On Arch, that roof is pacman. I’d rather get stuff not in Arch repos from AUR so they stay under pacman’s roof. I do like having the option to use Flatpak for stuff that isn’t in my distro’s repos (or third party ones like AUR), and on some distros with more limited selection it is very nice to have, though I’d still prefer native. The only places I really use Flatpak are on the Steam Deck (as SteamOS doesn’t allow the use of pacman, and if you force it you break things) and on postmarketOS because the Alpine repos lack a lot of stuff I want on my phone.

4ffy, (edited )

I think that this is above all else the reason that I use Arch. Arch Linux makes creating packages trivial, basically just wrapping build instructions into a shell script template. Arch handles the rest. The build systems for deb or rpm packages don’t come close, and good luck rolling your own flatpak.

This allows me to use pacman for everything outside of my home directory. Pacman is practically the central feature of my computer, and it’s wonderful. I’m sure those Nix people can relate, though I guess my method is a bit less robust.

combat_brandonism,

I guess my method is a bit less robust.

ime they just break in different ways. pacman’s easier to hack around but nix is more portable

Endorkend,
@Endorkend@kbin.social avatar

Don't generalize whatever distro you're running as "Linux", especially when we're talking package management.

mfat,

Isn’t this the case with all major distros at least?

BeigeAgenda,
@BeigeAgenda@lemmy.ca avatar

Nope the major distros use about 3 different package management systems.

cyanarchy,

As far as I know, Ubuntu is unique in its insistence on snaps. I can’t really speak for any others but my system runs fine entirely on native or locally compiled packages known to my package manager.

elbarto777,

Is it possible to bring back that experience? A unified, reliable CLI solution to make sure EVERYTHING is up to date?

Yes. Use a Linux distro that doesn’t use flatpacks and you’re good to go.

Shikadi,

Just don’t use Ubuntu and don’t use flatpacks

mfat,

I use Fedora and many of the apps featured on it’s default app store have turned out to be flatpaks.

d_k_bo,

If you use its graphical software manager to install apps then why not just use it to update then with a single click.

zkrzsz,

Make an alias like “sudo dnf upgrade && flatpak update”.

OsrsNeedsF2P,

Dunno about you, when I click Update in Discover, all my stuff updates

SpaceNoodle,

Only one of my Linux boxes even has a window manager, and I don’t use it.

juliebean,

is their some kind of TUI lemmy client you’re using then, or do you just do most of your web stuff on mobile or windows or something?

SpaceNoodle, (edited )

Lemmy is strictly a time waster on my phone. I already sit in front of a desk of screens all day for work, I’m not going to do the same thing for fun.

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