I somehow missed this one! I remember there being a ton of drama surrounding the wedding pack back when it came out, but it was more surrounding the bugs and some features not being fulfilled, fulfilled poorly, or the overall angst that surrounds basic game content that probably ought to just be included in the game you boughtinstead getting segmented off into multiple pricey packs or expansions for additional purchases.
This one is downright nutty. I really can’t even imagine what they were thinking.
Fascinating drama, but I wish people wouldn’t link to CDNs for their images. Those links never last, and now several comparison pics linked above are gone.
I once made a small edit to the page of some random piece of property, just changed the value from $70 millions to $50. I thought it would be hilarious to see if anyone noticed or cared enough to change it back. Surprisingly, nobody has yet
Yeah Wikipedia should never be cited qnd I personally don’t find Wikipedia reliable due to its ongoing editor wars and editor factions insisting that their version of a page is better and using built up reputation to delete any good faith edits they don’t like
”Do i just like… (LINKS TO REDDIT) keep running naxx over and over and over for years? What do these people DO with their WoW time. I literally have nothing left to do and quit playing.”
Did the game simply stay this way forever? Would Blizzard start developing new content to extend Vanilla separately to the original release (as had happened to old school Runescape)? Would they reset the game? Or was Burning Crusade Classic on the way?
Blizzard wasn’t too sure themselves. They knew they wanted to go with the latter, but they weren’t sure how to make it work. A survey was sent out, asking players for their opinions. All of the options proved popular, so they tried to appeal to everyone.
There was a lot of nostalgia for Burning Crusade – nostalgia which had yet to be monetised. I won’t explain what BC was because we’ve covered it here before (LINKS TO REDDIT).
The crazy thing about the ad was that it promised BC Classic would be available in less than a month.
”We’re less than a month out of this date and we still don’t have official word, it’s fucking stupid”
[…]
”Blizzard needs to communicate better so i can book my fucking vacation lol.”
Once again, there were a number of questions to answer.
BC couldn’t overwrite vanilla - that was the whole point of Classic – so players weren’t sure how it would integrate into the existing game. But by that point, Blizzard had decide it would be a separate service to Vanilla, but still covered by a single WoW subscription.
So far, Blizzard had done everything right (more or less). But the announcement of BC was incredibly botched, and infuriated the community in multiple ways. They offered players the option of transferring their Vanilla characters to the BC servers for free. Or, for the price of $35, they could clone their character, keeping one the original in Vanilla and getting a copy in BC.
Cue the shitstorm.
”$35?! To copy some code?! (LINKS TO REDDIT) I mean even $10 would be a lot for that, but it’s in the realm of reasonable.”
[…]
“Oh wait, you’re serious. Let me laugh even harder.”
[…]
”At this point (LINKS TO REDDIT) I’m reasonably sure I don’t want to spend any dime on TBC. Even a subscription. This is just going to continue to get worse.”
”This process takes SECONDS (LINKS TO REDDIT), and now we are supposed to pay 35 USD for each character if we wanna have a copy in both eras of the game?!”
[…]
”Horrifying amount of greed for something that is basically 100% automated.
Their excuse for charging so much for retail server transfers/race changes is they don’t want people to do it too much (some do anyway), what possible excuse is there to charge so much to simply ACTIVATE a clone?”
A lot of players were discussing the idea of abandoning the Burning Crusade altogether out of protest.
”Vote with your wallet. Don’t sub, don’t play TBC.”
The player base worked itself into a lather, getting angrier and angrier until the developers had no choice but to respond. Just days after announcing the price, Blizzard backpedalled and reduced it to $15.
“However, over the last week or so, we’ve gotten a very large amount of feedback from the community, and we’ve decided to lower the price.”
The players had won.
”Absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for listening! I wasn’t going to clone my main due to the high cost, but now it certainly looks a lot more tempting.”
But some were quick to point out that they shouldn’t be paying anything at all. Others suggested that this had been the plan all along. Blizzard never intended on charging $35, they just wanted to make $15 look good by comparison.
Lord Bobby has blessed us. Now I only have to pay an extra £12 on top of the annual £120 access fee, if I want to keep playing the game I bought in 2006 for a tenner.”
[…]
”They are charging money for literally a copy/paste. “
[…]
”I’m still not buying it and i’m not falling for this crap for 1 second, Blizzard have revealed their true intentions when it comes to Classic.”
Alas, the cloning fee was not the only controversy here.
Players could buy a Dark Portal Pass for $39.99, which would take any character on a BC server straight to level 58 and provide everything they needed to start playing in Outland right away. That pissed people off even more than the cloning fee.
In an AMA prior to the release of Vanilla, one of the developers had declared, “Character Boosts are not in keeping with Classic. We don’t want to break any hearts.” (LINKS TO REDDIT) That had come as a huge relief to the community at the time. And now it came back, as a betrayal. The cracks were starting to show. The only crack players wanted to see in Burning Cruade was Illidan’s, and that’s the only one they weren’t getting.
We already covered the arguments against boosts in the Warlords of Draenor write-up, but those feelings were felt more strongly here. Not only did players care far more about levelling as a rite of passage which was meant to be slow and painful, they were also keenly watching for any signs of ‘corporate money-grubbing’. They saw modern WoW as the ‘darkest timeline’ and wanted to prevent Classic going down the same road. As far as they were concerned, meddling with BC was like trying to rewrite the Bible.
”Please change your mind on providing boosts. It makes me happy to see you guys are noticing our complaints and that you’re talking to us because maybe y’all will take boosts out. Tbc is still a classic wow game, and it had no boosts originally.”
Not everyone was against the idea of boosts, however.
”The leveling was part of the draw of Classic, and so they did not want to take away from that. The boost for BC Classic takes you straight to the bare minimum level to get into BC, where that leveling can take place, and gets you to endgame faster, which had a much bigger focus in BC than it did in Vanilla”
Some players thought boosts should be conditional – perhaps they should be limited to players who had already hit max level in Vanilla, or they should only be available for a month after launch.
There were also concerns about bots. Classic already had an issue with them, and giving them a way to skip levelling risked making the problem worse. More bots meant more gold farming, which in turn meant more damage to the economy.
In protest, a thousand players banded together to ‘reboot’ BC on one of its smallest servers, starting over from level 1. ““Blizzard announced Burning Crusade Classic with no fresh servers and no mention of what will happen to the existing low population / dead servers, except hinting there could be the possible creation of new servers post-Burning Crusade Classic launch,” said the organiser behind The Fresh Crusade.
"This makes sense especially in the current state where most servers don’t have a levelling scene with players very much soloing their way from 1-60 with issues finding groups for dungeons/group quests, which is an integral part of the WoW Classic journey.”
And as if Blizzard was deliberately trying to infuriate their Classic players as much as possible, they announced the Digital Deluxe Edition, for the low low price of $69.99. Every single feature came like a new dagger to the heart.
As well as a Dark Portal Pass and 30 days of game time, it included the Path of Illidan toy, which caused characters to leave a trail of green flaming footsteps, a unique hearthstone, a mount for retail-WoW, and most important of all, the Phase Hunter mount, specifically for BC Classic.
Pretty bold of them to firstly cater to a hardcore traditional community by making classic versions of the game, to then add something that this community deeply despises in the pursuit of some extra revenue.
[…]
”This is precisely why I’m #NoChanges because you give Blizzard an inch and they take a mile.”
[…]
“What do u mean it’s a slippery slope?! We just want X and Y!”
[…]
”The sad part is (LINKS TO REDDIT) the whales will still eat it up.”
[…]
”I know I shouldn’t be (LINKS TO REDDIT), but I’m always amazed at the incredible amount of corporate fanboying and defending of corporate greed going on here. It’s really hard to tell if it’s bots/paid shills or if these people genuinely just want to suck the teats of Blizzard that badly for some reason.”
Asmongold, one of the biggest WoW personalities, who had followed Classic from the beginning, encouraged his fans to fire the /spit emote at anyone who used the mount. The idea was that if they disincentivised the mount enough, no one would buy it, and Blizzard would learn not to try these kinds of techniques again. The harassment campaign applied to everyone who bought store mounts, but was specifically targeted at those who bought the Digital Deluxe Edition.
It was intensely controversial.
”If you think people trying to punish others (LINKS TO REDDIT) for not conforming with your opinions isn’t toxic then you may need to take a break from the internet. That is the real childishness here.”
Most content creators strongly opposed the campaign, whatever their views on store mounts. But many players were on Asmongold’s side.
”If you think people emoting on a game is harmful, might wanna take a break from the internet until you grow up.”
An addon was created to automatically spit on players with the Deluxe Edition mount. Screenshots emerged of players’ chat logs filling up with notifications that they were being spat on.
One user on Reddit suggested (LINKS TO REDDIT), “I guess Blizz was worried people would be afraid to buy the mount LULW. While another added, “they found a spit emote too problematic and ‘toxic’ because people were using it against players who spent money on their cash shop.”
They insisted that Blizzard didn’t care about harassment at all, they were just trying to protect their golden goose. After all, Blizzard had done nothing to curb the use of racial slurs.
”You can buy the n-word pass from the ingame store.”
“Wait, is it actually dead? What the fuck? It’s actually dead.”
When Classic first released, there was little no real concern about it cannibalising the playerbase of retail WoW – the games were totally different, and catered to different people. Burning Crusade Classic didn’t have that advantage. It was directly aimed at players who had enjoyed Classic, but who wanted to move on to Outland. There was a serious risk of splitting the community in two.
When Blizzard cloned players over to the BC servers, their Vanilla characters remained, and the Vanilla servers were never going anywhere – the company had been clear on that. But with everyone playing in BC, the Vanilla community simply disappeared. Since most players went on to BC without paying the $15 dollars for the character cloning service, their favourite characters were gone from Vanilla forever.
Folding Ideas compared World of Warcraft to a religion going through a major schism, with a more progressive branch (Retail) and a fundamentalist branch who desired a return to the old tradition (Classic). And here with BC Classic, the branch split again. Vanilla was left in the hands of ‘Classic Forevers’ who rejected expansions of any form, and chose to remain pure.
In those servers left behind, it was often hard to find more than a dozen max level characters online at once. They soon grew disdainful of the traitors who had abandoned Vanilla.
When it came to the Horde/Alliance split, very few servers had ever been equal. Often, one faction would vastly outnumbered the other. In the fifteen years since the game began, Blizzard had worked tirelessly to find a solution. Some ideas had worked, but all of them had come at a cost. Whether it was combining servers or splitting them up or developing systems that moved players seamlessly from one to another depending on the need, it always meant messing with the delicate ecosystems and communities of the game’s many ‘realms’.
Faction ratios were just some of the many problems Blizzard recreated in Classic. Racial abilities were much stronger when the game first came out, and certain classes were exclusive to one faction or the other. After many years of debate and investigation, it is generally agreed that the Alliance had an edge in PvE content, whereas the Horde pushed ahead in PvP. The two were different, but surprisingly balanced.
”Even during Classic WoW, there are many arguments about which side is actually best. In the Burning Crusade however, the player base pretty much unanimously agrees that one side is better than the other.”
Without going into too much detail, it all came down to Blood Elves. They were the one Horde race that could play Paladins, which had been an Alliance-only class in Vanilla. To differentiate them, Horde Paladins got an ability called ‘Seal of Blood’, and Alliance got ‘Seal of Vengeance’. Combined with the overpowered racial ability ‘Arcane Torrent’, Blood Elf Paladins had a major PvP advantage. The Undead racial ‘Will of the Forsaken’ was equally overpowered, and nothing on the Alliance could compete with it. To make matters worse, BC introduced arenas which pitted players against one-another in groups of just two or three. In that setting, a small boost went much further.
This imbalance left a legacy that remains even now. The Horde still dominate high-end raiding and PvP on retail.
”For some, this radical asymmetry is the biggest scar of the Burning Crusade.”
Blizzard had no choice. When BC Classic came out, it brought this problem with it. Whether they wanted to or not, they couldn’t betray the spirit of the original, or incur the fury of the #NoChanges mob.
And so, as expected, the faction ratio slid inexorably toward the Horde. Their majority quickly grew from 53% to 62%. On PvP servers, the Horde simply had no one to fight against. Queues to get into battlegrounds and arenas got longer and longer, so players went out into the world for their fun, which usually meant ganking low level Alliance as they quested in the zones of Outland. In the face of these roaming death squads, those Alliance players either quit, switched to Horde (LINKS TO REDDIT), or fled to the safety of PvE realms, where they formed a majority of 65%. That just made the problem worse.
”Obviously not all horde are like this (LINKS TO REDDIT), but there’s soo many that seem to just try to do whatever they can to make alliance experience a frustrating experience. My last straw for me was leveling in Zang. I realized out of the past 3 hours I had played, about an hour of it was spent corpse running. I could never get alliance to come help. And every day it seemed like I saw less and less alliance. Finally after seeing a horde blockade around one of the towns, I just threw in the towel. Switched to a PVE server and never looked back.”
The end result was a lot of servers where one faction made up over 99% of the population.
“My server at the beginning (LINKS TO REDDIT) of phase 2 was healthy and strong pop with the most balanced h:a ratio at the time.
It’s like 5:1 ratio now and the alliance has basically all stopped playing, or left the server.”
In retail, Blizzard had fixed the problem with ‘Mercenary Mode’, a feature that magically swapped players to a race of the opposite faction to fill in gaps. It had never been around during BC, but Blizzard piloted it anyway. It was either meddle with the game, or let it die. Horde players were given cardboard masks with Alliance races painted on them.
The #NoChanges community saw Mercenary Mode as just the first step to destroying the greatness of BC. There were even calls to reboot the whole project. And with ‘Classic Classic’, we’ve come full circle.
If Classic starts solving ‘old’ problems with modern solutions, at what point will the two MMOs become indistinguishable?”
Some disagreed.
” You know, it seems like people seem to not get that there’s a HUGE gulf of QOL improvements that could be added to Classic and wouldn’t “make it retail”. This is a strawman at its best. You can like parts of Classic and, god forbid, parts of retail and it’s not binary.”
[…]
” I think people just look at the differences between classic and retail and assume anything that retail has that classic doesn’t is “retail” and bad.
The truth is that the problems with retail are numerous, but that not all things that changed are bad.”
Should Blizzard implement modern changes, or preserve the game in its original form, no matter how broken it may be? This debate has come to define the Classic community, and corrupts all discourse surrounding it. And as long as the developers keep trying to find a way forward without upsetting either side, they will be paralysed as well.
Glad that the classic wow community has devolved into the world largest trolley problem. (LINKS TO REDDIT) You can either not pull the lever and let the game run into the same problems that have been there since the original release or you can pull the lever and implement the fixes to these problems that came later in the games lifetime BUT someone will say its retail bullshit
In the days of Nostalrius, fans had one simple goal - they knew what they wanted, and everyone was on the same page. Their united effort was able to change the will of a billion dollar company.
But that is the past. Now everyone has a different idea of where the game should go. And so the problem remains; lots of the people are mean, and most of them are miserable, even the ones with digital deluxe editions.
The most remarkable thing about Legion was that it was, for the most part, a success.
There is drama to be had, but it’s thin on the ground. This summary is mainly for non-players, or people who skipped Legion, so that we don’t have a two-year gap in the write-up between Warlords of Draenor and Battle for Azeroth (there will be PLENTY of drama there, I promise). If you just want the controversies, skip to the next section.
It began with a teaser trailer , showing Gul’dan (the only important guy from the last expansion) awakening Illidan (beloved and iconic antihero from Warcrcaft III and Burning Crusade). It generated a lot of hype.
Blizzard officially revealed their next expansion with a features trailer at Gamescom 2015, and then went into further detail with a cinematic and the usual presentations at Blizzcon a few months later. Like a beaten hound loyally returning to its master’s side, the community overflowed with excitement, and optimistic hope that this expansion would be better than the last.
After the mess that was Draenor, Legion had a simple premise. The biggest big bad in Warcraft history was back. Led by the fallen titan Sargeras, the infinite Burning Legion had tried multiple times to escape the Twisting Nether and conquer Azeroth, but had always been thwarted at the last moment. Now it had arrived for a full invasion. The heroes and nations of Azeroth had to do the impossible - defeat the Legion once and for all.
With the previous two expansions, Blizzard had done everything possible to avoid touching their existing lore. Now it seemed the shackles were off. Major changes were happening, major characters were dying. No one was safe. Everything was coming to its natural conclusion.
That resonated with players who had been around since Warcraft first started. Everyone wanted to see the final battle between the Titans and Sargeras. When Legion released in August 2016, the number of concurrent players hit the highest peak since the launch of Cataclysm – though the subscriptions immediately fell again, as had become tradition.
The expansion took place on the Broken Isle. It had always existed in the lore as a group of tiny islands, so Blizzard scaled it way up. Dalaran was copied (with a few improvements) into the skies above the new continent, and served as the major hub.
There were five zones at launch, and players could complete them in any order they liked. Each held a magical item, vital in the fight against the Legion.
The Norse-themed Stormheim, full of steep ravines and jagged rocks, a deliberate call back to the popular Howling Fjord of Wrath. Players helped WoW’s version of Odin defeat Helya, the goddess of the underworld.
Tauren-focused Highmountain, with its scenic plateaus and snowy peaks, complete with a small city called Thunder Totem. Its story revolved around a dispute with the local Drogbar.
The ancient groves of Val’Sharah played host to druid society, which had gathered around the world tree Shaladrassil. Its story focused on the Emerald Dream.
Suramar was the stand out zone of Legion. This ancient capital of Night Elf civilisation had been protected from history by a huge magical barrier, which had only recently fallen. It was basically ‘Elf Venice’, and remains one of the most visually stunning cities in WoW – or any game. Since the Nightborne of Suramar were working against the Alliance and Horde, players could only explore the city with a disguise. Certain NPCs had the ability to see through it, and would voice their suspicions whenever the player got too close. This made navigating the city frustrating for many, and caused the NPC lines (which were repeated ad-nauseum) to gain meme status.
Each player joined a Class Order – a secret society where the most iconic lore characters of each class worked to repel the Legion. Each class got a separate ‘Order Hall’, a uniquely designed headquarters that no one else could reach, with its own story and mounts. The halls carried forward several aspects of garrisons, but lacked major conveniences like hearthstone points or auction houses, so players never spent too much time in them. The community loved the Class Orders, though some of the campaigns were better than others (LINKS TO REDDIT). Priests were particularly screwed over, and had to be rescued by the Paladin class hall in their own campaign. But some, like the Death Knight story, had repercussions that are still playing out today. Since every class had such a different experience, it was a good time to level alts.
Then there was perhaps the most well-received addition, the Demon Hunter class. With a dark aesthetic, a double jump, and fan-darling Illidan as their poster child, they became wildly popular. Players have been begging for demon hunters four years, and Legion was the perfect time to make them available.
The dungeons were good (and there were ten on release, an improvement over the previous expansions), and both of the first raids were excellent. The Nighthold ended with Gul’dan’s spectacular death.
Patch 7.1 brought with it a short raid and a fantastic remake of Karazhan, one of the game’s most popular raids (the new version was a dungeon). It also added to the story in Suramar.
Patch 7.2 began when the final General of the Legion, Kil’Jaeden, made his big move, and the armies of Azeroth pushed back against him. Players returned to the Broken Shore, where they gained Legionfall reputation through a mix of world quests, rare bosses, treasures, and story quests. There was also a new dungeon called Cathedral of Eternal Night, and a raid to pair with it, the Tomb of Sargeras. Players repelled the Legion and defeated Kil’Jaeden. At the end, Illidan opened the space between Azeroth and Argus, the fractured homeworld of the Legion. It became visible in the sky in every zone.
Patch 7.3 took the fight to Argus. Players boarded a Draenei spaceship and began their offensive, meeting with the Army of the Light (the new reputation) and working to take the Legion capital. Argus had three small zones, which players could navigate by moving their ship, the Vindicaar. They were Krokuun, Antoran Wastes and Mac’Aree. The latter, a reference to lead level designer Jesse McCree, was renamed to Eredath when he became accused of sexual harassment, but that’s a clusterfuck for another write-up.
Blizzard introduced Invasion Points, which were like world quests, but they teleported the player to small alternate worlds to sabotage the Legion. And of course, there was a dungeon and the big raid: Antorus the Burning Throne. Players worked with the Titans to trap Sargeras once and for all, putting a conclusive end to the Burning Legion. In the climactic final moments, Sargeras thrust his sword into Azeroth.
It is the only instalment since Wrath to gain more positive reviews the negative ones on Metacritic. Blizzard had taken a major gamble by killing Warlords of Draenor to give Legion a shot at success, and it paid off. To many, it was the best expansion ever – the culmination of everything that had come before it, and a fitting send-off. Indeed, it felt like we were seeing the end of World of Warcraft. And in hindsight, it may have been best if the game ended there, when we look at what was to come.
But it was not without flaws, or controversy. And if one thing should be obvious by now, it’s that the World of Warcraft community will always find something to complain about. There are the doubters, the cynics, and those who insists that Legion wasn’t that good at all, it didn’t deserve the praise, but “being an okay expansion sandwiched between two dumpster fires will have that effect on people.”
They may have a point. While Legion has carved itself into the history of wow as a golden age, it benefits from hindsight. Most of its problems were fixed by the time its final patch released. The early days were far from perfect.
One of the big features of Legion was ‘Artefact Weapons’. Every class got a weapon for each specialisation, which they gained through a unique story mission. A lot of these weapons were lore-significant, so players were eager to get their hands on them. There were various appearances you could mix and match for each weapon too, and these were all obtained in different ways.
Artefact power (AP) was best understood as a way to continue levelling, after levelling was done. Each weapon had its own progression system, with unlockable abilities and levels. This was all done through AP. Some of these abilities were woefully unbalanced, but that’s what players loved about them. Gone were the tiny stat increases and passive bonuses of previous expansions - here was max level progression that felt consequential. Some abilities made getting around more convenient, some completely changed the gameplay, and some were so good that they were made permanent at the end of the expansion. Long story short, AP was seriously important.
Unlocking all of the abilities for just one weapon took weeks of work, and every class had at least three. The early traits came thick and fast, before slowing to an insufferable crawl. And if you chose the wrong weapon, you were shit out of luck. Though perhaps the worst part of AP was that it technically never ended. You could keep levelling up your artefact weapon forever. Of course the benefits were slim, but completionist players nonetheless felt the pressure.
AP is often attributed with driving away or burning out most of the players who returned at the start of the expansion.
”I log on for an hour, get burned out because I can’t do much other than daily quests, get bored, then boot up steam.”
[…]
”Being on a gear treadmill (LINKS TO REDDIT) has been part of WoW for over a decade. Yet, this neck grind just feels so much worse. I look forward to getting gear; I’m motivated to do content for it. AP, on the other hand, just feels lethargic and tedious.”
The system also did much to undo the alt-friendliness of Class Orders, by incentivising players to invest time in a single character. If you switched, you had to start from zero every time.
”It really hurts playing alts for me… Everytime an alt gains AP that’s Ap not going to my main, who already needs every ounce of power he can get because Shaman.
Even worse with low level alts… When I have time to play I have to think about not just leveling up… But leveling through Legion, getting the weapons, getting AP, getting gear…”
Another major issue was the overuse of RNG mechanics – random chance – particularly when it came to legendary item drops. Legendaries could drop during almost any max-level content, and came with unique abilities. Players were guaranteed to get the first few quickly, but the drop rate lowered with each legendary they obtained. The game gave no indication when players might get a legendary that was necessary to play competitively. Since there was no clear connection between work and reward, some felt like they were slaving away for nothing.
Blizzard gradually made it easier to gain AP, and by the final patch, the grind was removed entirely. They also created a vendor for legendary items. That did nothing to bring back lost players, but it did wonders for the reputation of Legion going forward.
Unfortunately, many unpopular systems from Warlords made it into Legion (like the garrison mission table) and even more of the unpopular systems from early Legion made it into the next expansion. But that’s a story for another post.
”Legion was the beginning (LINKS TO REDDIT) of all the awful design philosophy shifts that people have been complaining about ever since.”
Tentacle Boy Just Won’t Go Down
As the general of the Burning Legion, it’s reasonable that Kil’Jaeden would be a difficult enemy to kill. But what resulted was one of the most unforgiving, brutal bosses in the history of the game, with zero margin for error. It was a fight riddled with bugs and design issues, to the point where it was impossible for even the top guilds in the world - until Blizzard tweaked it. To some, that made him the best boss ever. To others he was the worst. Entire guilds disbanded over Kil’Jaeden, such was the trauma of smacking over and over into a brick wall without making the slightest progress.
”…after a butt load of nerfs it became manageable. It’s a very challenging fight, maybe the hardest one I’ve done in my 11 years of raiding.”
[…]
”Overall I consider it as the hardest boss ever done (in terms of mechanics).”
On the highest difficulty, every small advantage was vital. His knockbacks pushed players off his platform to their deaths. Every class had some ability to overcome it, with the sole exception of priests. And when they died, the fight failed. But Goblins could be priests, and they came with a racial ability that dealt with the knockback. When the Tomb of Sargeras released, almost all top Alliance raiding guilds had already switched to Horde, but the final holdouts were forced to bite the bullet just for a chance to beat Kil’Jaeden. (LINKS TO REDDIT)
On one server, he wasn’t killed on mythic difficulty until three years later.
Really though, the fact that these were the worst complaints about Legion should tell you how good it was. It was a fantastic time to be a World of Warcraft player. But there were storm clouds on the horizon. The two expansions that followed would reduce the game to its lowest ebb, leave its playerbase a weathered and self-hating shade of its former self, and bring Blizzard to ruin.
Blizzard’s game development operates like a pendulum. They swing one way, fans complain, so they go to the exact opposite extreme. If you know that, and you know what happened in Cataclysm, you can guess how Mists went.
Cataclysm hadn’t had enough daily quests or reputations, so Mists of Pandaria was absolutely stacked with them. Each day, you would complete quests for the Golden Lotus, the Order of the Cloud Serpent, the Shadow-Pan, the Anglers, the Tillers, the Klaxxi, and the August Celestials. There had always been a daily cap on the number of daily quests a person could complete, which was 25. Blizzard removed that when MoP released, so that players could complete Pandaria’s 48 daily quests unimpeded.
“…it looks like there will be approximately 1300 quests in Mists of Pandaria. Right this moment we don’t have the numbers off-hand to show how that that compares exactly to the previous expansions, but the quest count seems to more closely mirror Wrath of the Lich King, however with a much greater emphasis on dailies. Mists of Pandaria is actually the expansion where we have emphasized dailies the most… ever!”
And don’t worry, the first and second patches both brought yet more dailies.
It didn’t take long for daily-fatigue to creep in. Unfortunately, high level gear was locked behind faction reputation requirements, so many players felt forced to do every daily, every day, in order to stay competitive. I recall it would take me several hours. Here are some experiences from other players.
”I think what turned a lot of people off was the huge emphasis on doing dailies for literally every faction every day in order to get rep and gear upgrades. If you missed a day, it felt like you were ages behind everyone else.”
Players often cited the sheer avalanche of daily quests as the reason why they quit – they just burned out.
”The MOP dailies were so time consuming that I was unable to do all dailies for all factions in one day. It took me 3 months to get ambassador. I came tired physically from work and then got tired mentally from endless grind to get exalted in wow.”
[…]
”The rep grind was so bad it actually made me unsub. It wasn’t fun anymore when I’d spend 3 hours a day doing what felt like a tedious chore, knowing that the amount of rep I could get in one day was capped so to get exalted would take a month of daily quests. Really sucked the fun out of the game.”
There were, of course, critics. Dailies weren’t mandatory, at least not technically. And according to the user ‘Styil’, what could possibly be wrong with more content?
I will never understand this mentality. How can you have “too much” content, let alone see it as a problem?
[…]
There weren’t too many dailies. People just have zero self-control.
One of the most heavily marketed additions in Mists was that of ‘Scenarios’. These were like dungeons, only more story-based. Rather than a team of five people with three damage dealers, a tank, and a healer, scenarios were made to be completed by anyone. This was done in the hope of avoiding the lengthy dungeon queues, but as a result, they were extremely easy. There were 29 scenarios in Mists of Pandaria, and while some players (like me) loved them, they proved unpopular with others.
In order to cater to players who wanted more of a challenge, harder ‘Heroic’ scenarios were released, with such massive rewards that everyone was pretty much forced to do them.
Unfortunately, scenarios came at the cost of dungeons – a cornerstone of the game. Vanilla had 26 dungeons, Burning Crusade and Wrath had 16 and Cataclysm had 14. Mists of Pandaria had 6, and they were all rather simple, with no real variation from ‘Normal’ to ‘Heroic’ modes. Players found them far too easy.
The raids, at least, were fine. The ‘Looking for Raid’ feature added in Cataclysm continued to become more and more toxic and hated, but there’s nothing I can say about it which hasn’t already been covered.
The Talent Tree
After the content drought of Cataclysm, Blizzard took pains to create plenty of things to do.
There had always been world bosses – extremely powerful enemies roaming questing areas, which players could group up to kill – but MoP turned them into a real feature. World bosses had a tiny chance of dropping mounts.
Speaking of which, MoP introduced systems for players to conveniently track mounts across their characters, as well as toys and gadgets. ‘Elite Enemies’ were scattered across the world in their dozens. There was also the ‘Lorewalkers’, a unique faction which rewarded players for examining monuments, reading scrolls, and hearing folk tales across Pandaria. The Brawler’s Guild allowed players to take part in an underground fighting ring. Warlocks got a long requested questline to turn their fire demonic green. Professions were re-worked, gameplay was drastically changed across the board, and the talent system was totally remade.
This last change was quite controversial. The ‘talent tree’ had always offered players a number of small stat boosts which they could buy with points. Blizzard didn’t think the system felt very rewarding, and was too easily ‘optimised’, which they were kind of right about. But many players were attached to it.
”Sure, people still used cookie cutter builds, and there were plenty of worthless talents, but I enjoyed it. Getting a point to spend every level made it feel like I was actually getting stronger,” said Reddit user ‘PB-Toast’.
Others disagreed.
”Dont let nostalgia hide that a good portion of these talents were increase chance to hit 1/5% and incredibly boring.”
The replacement was this. Every fifteen levels, players had the option of choosing between three abilities. Usually, they were of similar types – they might all be damaging spells, or movement-related, or healing powers. The intention was to free players from the need to do whatever the internet said was best. But that didn’t work, and the internet quickly figured out which choices were the most efficient.
Players saw it as a departure from the classic RPG elements, and yet another appeal toward casuals.
”It’s not even about nostalgia, it’s about making it an RPG. Levelling up was rewarding, you got talents, got stronger levels of spells and had a general sense of progression. Wow is a MMO. Its been long since it lost the RPG.”
Players argue to this day over which system was better.
Another major feature was the ‘Sungsong Ranch’, a little farm players could own in the Valley of the Four Winds as part of the ‘tillers’ guild. Each player would only ever see their own farm upon entering the area, but could visit other peoples’ farms by grouping up. It worked similarly to Stardew Valley. Next to the farm was a market, where players could sell their vegetables or give them as gifts to the locals in order to improve their relationships, and gradually unlock more parts of the farm.
Despite the inevitable Farmville comparisons, it was well received overall, which was a massive problem, because Blizzard only ever works in extremes. A far more elaborate version of this mechanic would rear its head in the following expansion, with terrible results, but that’s a drama for another post.
The most eye-catching addition to MoP was ‘pet battles’. Pets had existed for years, and were just little animated creatures that followed the player around. But now a system had been created to track and collect pets, name them, trade them, level them up, and fight them in matches against NPCs or other players. It was almost identical to Pokemon, a similarity lost on absolutely no one, and yet everyone felt the need to point out. Indeed, Blizzard had to reassure the community that it was not, in fact, a joke.
“This is like a comedy reel. Everyone’s laughing cuz it’s exactly like Pokemon in every way…he mentions feature after feature and they’re all taken from Pokemon. I’m surprised he kept a straight face for the most part.”
Youtuber ‘King Beaver’ had this to say:
”I thought this was gonna be really gay at first but then i realized i loved pokemon as a kid and you know what =/ i honestly wanna give this a try”
I suppose his intentions were good?
At any other time, pet battles probably wouldn’t have raised any eye-brows. But in a time of ‘Farmville knock-offs’, simplified talents, and cuddly pandas, when the community was already freaking out about MoP being aimed at girls, children, and casuals, it only poured fuel on the fire.
Who honestly plays World of Warcraft and says “I’ve got to log in to duel my pet!”? Who gets a kick of these things? Go play tamagotchi or Pokemon if you wanna play a game like that. AND FARMS?! GO PLAY FARMVILLE OR SOMETHING!
Of course, when they actually got into the game, these people realised that the pet battles system wasn’t even noticeable unless you actually took an interest in it. And those who did take an interest usually loved it. But that didn’t matter. What mattered was that development time had been spent on it. WoW players have always had a toxic relationship with the finite nature of development. Whenever they see a feature they didn’t want, they immediately imagine the things they did want, which had to be sacrificed (usually a raid), because Blizzard could only create so much content.
”Blizzard need to focus on the bloody gameplay and not waste their time on these childish things. They have dug the grave for this game with cataclysm and now they are just sh*ttin on it”
Fortunately, there were some sane responses, such as this one by the user ‘Tziva’.
Everyone I know who is looking forward to the pet battles is well into adulthood. I’m not sure why they cross the line into childish more than, say, having a pet in general. Or transmogging to play dress-up. Or riding a giant kitty. Or getting your hair style changed. Or any of the other aspects of the game one could single out and proclaim “for children.”
Standing alongside this whole drama was another one, relating to ethics. Pokemon has always managed to sidestep the ‘animal cruelty’ aspect of making creatures fight each other through heavy worldbuilding. Pokemon are treated well, given the utmost medical care, and are shown actively choosing to participate Particularly in the show, Pokemon are treated less like slaves and more like fully independent characters who just happen to live in balls.
WoW never really tried to do this. And in many cases, the pets were literally just normal cats, rats, dogs, and birds. For example, the baby ape or Whomper, whose description is “When Whomper wants to play, he’ll let you know with a playful headbutt.”. WoW had hundreds of pets, and a lot of them didn’t really fit the whole ‘pokemon’ aesthetic. Players criticised the ethics of making them fight.
There were also literal children who could be used as pets, but Blizzard prevented them from being used against each other. This decision upset some people.
If the Hunger Games taught us anything, we love to see children fight it out to the death. I hereby propose letting the little orc and human children join the pet battles. Add the little Christmas orc slaves too.
Aside from the jokes, there were some users who pointed out that many pets were just as sapient as humanoid children, so Blizzard was sort of making a statement by choosing which ones to allow. This drama didn’t really go anywhere, but it’s fun to talk about.
Is it okay to fuck a baby dragon? Asking for a friend.
While this isn’t one of the biggest dramas in Mists, it’s one of the strangest.
Anduin was the son of the Alliance leader, Varian Wrynn. It was clear he was one of the main characters Blizzard had singled out to become important later on. He was a recurring figure throughout almost every zone in Pandaria, and every patch too.
Wrathion was a black dragon – the last ‘uncorrupted’ one (all the others fell under Deathwing’s spell). When he took a human form, he appeared as a dark-skinned young man with red eyes, a beard, and a turban. Anduin and Wrathion had an story which proceeded through the game’s main patches, in which they had an enemies-to-friends relationship.
”it’s a 16 dating a 3 YEAR OLD. thats a toddler. unless you want to have it be bestiality your talking pedophilia pick your poison. it doesn’t matter what fantasy terms you use to dress it up the fact of it still remains that he’s DATING A TODDLER.” Said user ‘breadisfunny’.
There was some debate on this point.
”Paedophilia between this ship would be if Wrathion could not give consent as he does not have the mental maturity or physical capacity to do so. However, because he’s a dragon, he’s able to do so. Because they age much more quickly.”
[…]
”People love pushing fictional kids together. It’s really weird.”
Some members of the community were quick to disclaim that they didn’t want to portray Anduin and Wrathion having sex, only enjoying a wholesome romantic relationship. Here’s a little taste of that discourse.
”Are you kidding? They’re adorable.”
[…]
”it’s pedophile territory and you know it.”
[…]
”Seriously the most interesting relationship dynamic in WoW. Who even cares about genders at that point?
It’s basically the best. <3”
[…]
”Nice try but homosexuals do not and will not exist in the WOW universe.
Whats your next fetish, a gay relationship between a Walrus man and an Arakoa?”
World of Warcraft had dozens of main characters, and none of them were LGBT, so they couldn’t be blamed for latching on to the next closest thing, right? That’s what they thought. And in their defence, Anduin was very twinky.
“why does WoW need a homosexual character?” said one user.
Indeed, often the problem was not the ages of the characters, but the fact that they were gay. We’ve already covered how the average player sees ‘gay’ things in this post, so I don’t need to elaborate there. Homophobia was, and still is, rife in the playerbase.
”Because people do not understand what a platonic relationship is and are quick to jump into the LGBT agenda bandwagon”
Don’t worry though, this has a happy ending.
”This looks like some weird anime shipping shit”
This ship would simmer down for a while, and Wrathion would largely disappear from the scene. This is pretty common. Blizzard picks up new focal characters every expansion, and then tends to drop them straight after. But Blizzard continued refreshing Anduin’s model over the expansions to show him aging. And three expansions later, he was officially Anduin the Manduin, and had gone from twink to twunk to full on hunk. When Wrathion made his unexpected return after a glow up of his own, the shippers reawakened from their slumber.
”Anduin-kun…" “Nan deska, Wrathion-senpai?”
An almost industrial amount of fanart was churned out, with adult characters this time. I took the liberty of collecting some of it, for the good of the academic community. You may be wondering whether I really needed to assemble such homosexual multitudes, such a bevy of boy-love, just to prove my point, and to that I say you can get the hell out of my thread.
”Varian will be so proud of his son, sucking some dragon’s dick.
First Jaina, now you, what is happening to this world”
For context, Jaina was a character who also had a reputation for puffing the magic dragon - that was actually her least controversial boyfriend.
Indeed, Wrathion x Anduin the ship is so popular that there has been a lot of push for them to be canon. Considering Blizzard’s recent obsession with proving they’re definitely not evil, I can see them doing it. But we won’t get to all that for a while yet.
”With Wrathion returning at the end of WoD and with Anduin’s heavy heart of his betrayal do you think Blizzard will cave and let them be an official couple?”
Only time will tell. At any rate, this was a vast improvement over the situation during Cataclysm, when Anduin had been shipped with a cow
Only two months after MoP released, the first patch dropped. ‘Landfall’ was heavily story-based, and mostly followed the Horde and Alliance as they built up fortifications on the southern coast of Pandaria. As players progressed through the story, the defences got bigger and stronger, which made it feel rewarding. Even though it was mostly more daily quests and reputations, it went down well.
Only a few months after Landfall came ‘The Thunder King’, widely considered to be one of the best patches in Warcraft history, with a new zone containing a really interesting story, and one of the best raids in the game. It had an awesome Chinese/Aztek theme.
It would have been enough to satisfy players for up to six months, but they only had to wait two. The third patch, ‘Escalation’ took players to the zones surrounding the Horde capital of Orgrimmar. It was mercifully short on dailies, and continued to tell the story of Garrosh’s turn to Tyranny.
Just four months passed before the final patch dropped. Less than a year after Mists began, it had ended. ‘The Siege of Orgrimmar’ was another incredible patch. Its raid was colossal and had a number of creatively designed fights. Garrosh Hellscream, Chad of Chads, took seven phases to kill. The Vale of Eternal Blossoms was redesigned and given a totally new story.
Blizzard brought in the Timeless Isle, a new form of end-game content which eschewed dailies in favour of treasure chests, puzzles, mini games and dozens of bosses, some of which were very creatively designed. For example, there was Evermaw, a giant whale that circled the island, which players had to chase down using water-walking spells.
The Timeless Isle was incredibly addictive and got a positive response from players.
Following the release of MoP, subscribers continued to fall. At first, quite rapidly. Then slowly. Then, to everyone’s collective shock, they began to go up again. 200,000 subscribers came back during Quarter 4 of 2013. And it’s not hard to see why. Blizzard were releasing excellent content at a rapid pace. There were talks of Mists being a new renaissance for Warcraft.
But it came at a steep cost.
The Four Hundred and Sixty Day Patch
After the Siege of Orgrimmar, players waited eagerly to see what would come next. For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen. Nothing went on happening for several months, in fact. If you celebrated the release of Siege of Orgrimmar by having unprotected sex, your baby would be transitioning from milk to solid food by the time the next major patch came out. Or crawling, if it were particularly smart. Which it wouldn’t be, because its parents played World of Warcraft.
You may remember Hour of Twilight, Cataclysm’s infamously long patch from the last write-up: that one had been 301 days long. Siege of Orgrimmar lasted 460. To this day, it is the longest pause in the game’s history.
As you can imagine, the attitude among fans went from jubilant, to bored, to downright furious. And all the while, they followed the next expansion with ever-more critical eyes, but we’ll get to that absolute disaster next post.
The love players had for Siege of Orgrimmar gradually turned to hatred. They started to hate its length – it made it time consuming to finish for the hundredth time. They hated its focus on story – it was just a distraction. They hated its complicated fights, because they just wanted to get them over with so they could get to the loot. The freedom that made the Timeless Isle great started to feel like a lack of direction. The bosses, which could only be taken down when entire communities worked together, became unwinnable because no one wanted to be there anymore.
“All that time yet I only killed Garrosh once”
Oh, and by the way, the ending of the raid was… inconclusive. The only way to learn of Garrosh’s fate was to read the novel War Crimes. I won’t go into the whole ‘Faction Bias’ issue yet, because I’ll have much more material a couple of posts down the road. But these are the basics: The Horde had effectively nuked an Alliance city, committed heinous atrocities, split apart, revolted, and deposed its leader. After years of fighting on-and-off, a (mainly Alliance) force had taken the Horde’s capital city and cut off its leadership. They finally had the power to break up the Horde for good, or turn it into a vassal, or at the very least prevent it from arming again. They could have done whatever they wanted.
And what did they choose to do?
They wagged a very imposing finger in the faces of Horde leaders, told them not to do it again, let them choose a new ruler, and left. And no one questioned this decision. Well, pretty much all the fans did, but no one within WoW’s world. Garrosh wasn’t even killed, or taken into Alliance custody, he was sent to an ‘international’ court and freed, to terrorise another day. Cataclysm had experienced its fair share of writing flops, but this was one of the first real deep cuts to the faith fans held in their writers. And it would not be the last.
Anyway. The WoW renaissance had ended as quickly as it started. The Subscribers started falling again. Mists had started at 10 million subscribers and hit lows of roughly 7 million. It had been, for the most part, an excellent expansion, but its ideas were just too much for some people, and its content release schedule was far too ambitious.
Mists of Pandaria still divides fans today, but its public perception has changed dramatically. It gradually developed a sort of ‘cult classic’ status, which has grown more and more common over the years. Most of the community looks back on it fondly. It’s not uncommon to hear it described as the best expansion, World of Warcraft at its absolute zenith.
”…it was a consistently good expansion that defied its early reviews to deliver a great experience. I do wish we hadn’t been subjected to the lull of 14 months of no content…”
”Mists of Pandaria, despite any dispersions people have for the aesthetic of that expansion, was a great example of the game could be when the WoW team had a complete vision for the story and plenty of content for the players to experience.”
But there are still those who see it as a disappointment. If Cataclysm was the downward turn, Mists of Pandaria was the cliff.
”An expansion where Blizzard wanted money and weren’t afraid to degrade itself as a company along with the Warcraft franchise in the process. Have they done it before? Yes. Was it more apparent this time? Indubitably.”
[…]
”Terrible, made me leave. Leveled to 90, looked around and say “nope, not gonna jerk off the panda folk for dailies ad nauseam” and unsubbed for a year.”
[…]
”The dreadful leveling experience, the lackluster dungeons, the unbearable shitfest that is LFR, and the isle of a thousand chests can all go fuck themselves.”
[…]
”for me it was the worst expansion yet, the theme has been my big issue and I can’t get over it : /” Said the user ‘Horizon’.
You don’t tend to hear from those people as much anymore, perhaps because they quit the game and left its community. Personally, I loved MoP.
The worst things about WoW during these years happened off screen. Some of them got pretty grim. I felt the need to include them.
World of Warcraft made headlines in July 2012 when an argument over the game in an Ontario neighbourhood ended with one man being stabbed in the chest. You can view the wound here (NSFW). The attacker, Justin Williams, was having an enraged argument with guildies over his headset. Jordan Osborne visited to see what was going on, and tried to de-escalate the situation.
“I was telling him, there is no need for you to be freaking out about ‘World of Warcraft.’ It’s just a game,” Osborne told QMI.
Williams responded, “It’s not just a game, it’s my life.” He then assaulted Osborne, grabbing him by the throat, punching him in the face, and stabbing him in his sternum.
‘I was sitting in my house today thinking I could be dead - and it’s all over a World of Warcraft game. It’s true, it takes over your life.’
Osborne was taken for treatment and made a full recovery. He later told the ‘Peterborough Examiner’, “'The doctor said he could fit his whole finger in my chest.”. Williams faced arrest and was charged with ‘aggravated assault with a weapon’.
The game had already earned its reputation for inspiring extreme and sometimes violent behaviour. But it wasn’t until 2012 that the global media began to question the effects of World of Warcraft in greater depth. Not because of the stabbing of Jordan Osbourne, though that didn’t help. But because of something much more severe.
On 22 July, just a week after the Ontario incident, a Norwegian man named Anders Behring Breivik detonated a van bomb in Oslo, right next to the Regjeringskvartalet - a collection of government buildings. 8 people were killed. By the time the dust settled, he was halfway to the island of Utoya, where a summer camp was taking place for the Worker’s Youth League, a political group associated with the Norwegian Labour Party. Breivik proceeded to hunt down and kill 69 participants, most of whom were children. 318 people were injured. It paralysed Norway. The deadliest lone-wolf attack in history would come as a shock to any country, but Norway was one of the most peaceful, prosperous nations in the world. This was unimaginable.
As more information surfaced, the world scrambled to draw a profile of the perpetrator. Breivik had them covered. He had taken a leaf out of the Unabomber’s book and distributed a number of texts called ‘2083: A European Declaration of Independence’. Long story short, he was your standard far-right fascist wannabe. His shitty little book would inspire murderers for years to come.
Among other things, he attributed his success to World of Warcraft.
Breivik said in court, “Some people dream about sailing around the world, some dream of playing golf. I dreamt of playing World of Warcraft.”
Breivik professed to playing the game non-stop (as much as 16 hours a day at points), describing it as a ‘martyr’s gift’ to himself, and using it as a smokescreen to mislead his mother while he planned his attack. Researchers found he had led three guilds, all of which focused on hardcore raiding. He played a human female mage named ‘Conservativism’ and a tauren female druid named ‘Conservative’, though his main was called ‘Andersnordic’. When the prosecution displayed a picture of his character in court, Breivik smiled.
He made multiple attempts to distance himself from the game, perhaps because he felt it damaged the ‘legitimacy’ of his message, but it was gradually becoming clear how core World of Warcraft had been to his identity.
“I know it is important to you and the media that I played this for a year,” he told the court in response to Mr. Holden’s questions. “But it has nothing to do with July 22. It is not a world you are engulfed by. It is quite simply a hobby.”
Breivik would occasionally post on the forums. In one reply, he defended a Scandinavian cyberbully who he said ‘works against the Islamisation of Sweden’. The news shook the WoW community to its core, especially on the servers he had played (Silvermoon-EU and Nordrassil-EU). Players reacted with horror and disgust.
Some of his past guildies discussed their relationships with Breivik, which gave an insight into what he was like as a person.
My memories of Anders are very good, and the atrocity was so incredible that I suppose I simply refused to see the pictures as Anders at first.
One of the replies was from a fellow Norwegian.
This is surrealistic, as an Norwegian it is hard to even comprehend what he has done and even harder to fathom his motives. The killer portraited in our news papers and on television seems so far out that it is easiest to judge him as a rabbit psychotic. To know that i have been guilded and chated with him for over a year in Virtue, at least back then he seemed pretty normal, makes this even more uncomprehensible.
The general consensus was that while Breivik had been unpleasant at times, it was difficult to imagine him doing something so evil.
Yes offler I do indeed remember him. He an I had quiet a public barney. I did think he was a jerk and a petty control freak but not true evil as he has shown himself to be. Although I did think of him from time to time in a very negative way, I really did dislike that man.
It has really affected me these last few days how I had contact with someone who was truley a monster. He is a true coward, parking a car bomb, attacking children with a automatic riffle. I do hope he suffers in prison.
“It was a sickening feeling when I realized I had played for two or three hours with the man who tried to kill me,” Fred Ove Løtuft told local newspaper Bergens Tidende. “I’ve played a lot of shooting games where you have to get away and hide,” he said.
Passing himself off as a Finn, Breivik led a clan in World of Warcraft called the Knights Templar, Løtuft said. In his manifesto, Breivik claimed he belonged to an “anti-Jihad” terrorist organization of the same name. Chatting to Breivik at the time, Løtuft said he had formed a positive impression of his fellow player. “We only talked about the game. He didn’t seem like a guy who would run amok and gun down young people, to put it mildly,” Løtuft told Bergens Tidende.
The debate over whether video game violence caused real-world violence had played out dozens of times, usually in response to the revelation that some American shooter played Call of Duty or Battlefield or something like that. I’m not American so correct me if I’m wrong, but I think it has something to do with gun lobbies looking for scapegoats so that they don’t have to ban guns.
But this time, the conversation focused entirely on World of Warcraft. The media, both in Norway and throughout the world, questioned whether WoW was a safe place for children. All of the game’s past incidents came back with a vengeance, and were held up to the light as examples of its danger.
Professor Thomas Hylland Eriksen claimed that Breivik was unable to distinguish between World of Warcraft and reality. It was part of the fictional world he had created around himself, in which he was a knight defending Europe from invaders, and not an unsuccessful Norwegian neckbeard.
Norwegian gamers responded that Jens Stotenberg, leader of NATO and ex-Prime Minister of Norway, had played online games too, and even used his KGB codename Steklov as a username.
The topic rippled out across the game’s servers, its forums, and public discourse too. Studies had already been done on video game violence and found that they had no real impact on behaviour. Time Magazine weighed in, saying that Breivik’s relationship with WoW probably meant nothing at all.
Blame video games — that’s the watch phrase these days when something tragic happens. The non-gaming media seem to enjoy zeroing in on video games that are highlighted in horrifying crimes, invoking the rhetorical question: Do video games screw people up?
When horrible things happen, we look for simple answers, for easy rationalizations — ways to essentially say, Oh, this is why so-and-so did such-and-such. We want the “why” right now, when the spotlight’s on.
Reality, of course, is far more complex, and the answers we’re after require patience and careful research. Preliminary studies that attempted to link violent video games with increased aggressive behavior failed to control for critical variables like family history, mental-health issues and gender (they also failed to contextualize increased aggression levels, e.g., more than aggression upticks caused by playing football, say, or drinking a cup of coffee?).
The most up-to-date research, according to academic and TIME contributor Christopher Ferguson, “has not found that children who play VVG [violent video games] are more violent than other kids, nor harmed in any other identifiable fashion.” In Ferguson’s own longitudinal studies, recently published in the Journal of Psychiatric Research, he found “no long-term link between VVG and youth aggression or dating violence.” And Ferguson references another recent longitudinal study involving German children, published in Media Psychology, which similarly found no links between increased aggression and violent video games.
But to many players (and parents of players), none of that mattered. Shortly after all of this came to light, a lot of people left the game for good. Being associated with World of Warcraft had never been a grand thing, but in the wake of Breivik it became a black mark.
The WoW community was quick to defend their game. Some commentators were more reasonable, such as Reddit user /u/Saltybabe
While I personally don’t think all video games in all contexts are 100% harmless, they are usually only harmful when adults don’t supervise or explain to young kids what is ok and what’s not. We have an 8 year old here who loves castle crashers, one of the moves is to throw a guy down and jump on him… this was tried once at the play ground. It’s not a violent game and we told him that’s not ok people could get hurt, and problem solved.
WoW isn’t even a violent game, it’s cartoonish and fanciful. This isn’t really any gore to speak of and for the most part unless a person has a 2 handed axe or a huge mace there aren’t any weapons in the game short of a gun/bow and arrow, and lets face it none of the guns in WoW look even remotely realistic that one could link to real life violence.
I let our 6 year old run around the blood elf starting zone and smite things on her priest, she loves using the map and counting how many bad guys we have to get and it’s challenging to her to use the mouse and keyboard. She’s supervised and it’s not like she’s going to go to school and conjure up some magic and kill people… WoW is an insane target for this whole “video games cause violence” because really, if even young kids can easily be guided into understanding there is no excuse an adult could not understand this, short of mental illness.
Others treated the whole conversation with derision.
I heard he also drank milk!
As one pundit pointed out:
If video games had anything to do with what people did in real life, more than half of the US population would be farmers by now.
how would someone mess up so much on that conversion… 100 yen is like 3/4’s of a us dollar, so all you really need to do is move a decimal two spaces for a rough estimate.
I wonder if her friend was Korean. I used to live in Korea and the currency difference is about 10:1 with Japan. I spent a weekend in Japan and made the same mistake once. I saw a 10,000¥ wallet, mistakenly did the Korean mental math (1000₩≈$1) and thought it was $10 instead of $100. Luckily the cashier corrected me before I bought it.
the fashion has nothing to do with that awful pedophilic book
I’m aware you’re not the original author, but I can’t really let someone bashing Nabokov stand unchallenged, so I’ve reproduced one of the top comments from the original post:
I appreciate the post, but need to defend Nabokov — Lolita is not a pedophilic book — it’s an ANTI-pedophilic book.
Nabokov is trying to show how deluded and unreliable the narrator Humbert Humbert is, even as he uses beautiful language to describe his monstrous crimes of murder, kidnapping and rape.
Humbert is trying to lure the reader into sympathizing with him. Nabokov won’t let him.
And it's not just anti-paedophilic, it's one of the best books of the last century in my opinion - his writing is superb, the way Humbert is a creep who tries to dress everything up in flowery language to disguise what he is when he is just the same as Quilty, it's all really good.
You might think they are brainwashed, but it’s definitely not “mega corps”. These companies custom design each item, using uniquely sourced materials. Their not like Gucci or something, they arent pumping out millions of items and then artificially keeping supply low by destroying items, the revenue of these companies are in millions, not billions.
This isn’t the case of regular brand/throwaway culture. The materials are all high quality and if taken care of well, the items can be resold at the same value in the future.
What I don’t understand about Angelic Pretty specifically is many women that don’t have the right body size for their clothes will still buy them and then go through an inordinate amount of effort tailoring it so it will actually fit, usually themselves. These projects can be incredibly complicated depending on the dress design, to the point where I start wondering why some of these women with great sewing skills don’t just make the dress themselves from scratch.
I’m not into Lolita fashion myself, but this seems a similar to a discussion I saw about Dungeons & Dragons. Why spend all that time homebrewing a bunch of new systems and rules for situations when there’s another TTRPG system that already has systems and rules for those situations? Because some peoples’ enjoyment comes from tinkering with an existing product, adding onto it. They also get a starting point instead of having to build a whole new TTRPG, design and sew an entire new dress, for themselves. For some, it’s easier to see a pretty dress and change it to fit yourself than it is to think of a design for a pretty dress you’ll love as much. It’s easier to start a Dungeons & Dragons campaign and add on rules to tack onto it than to come up with a whole new campaign or rule set yourself, or to come up with the same campaign idea with the other TTRPG’s world as a basis.
I personally think that reposting should require the permission of the original author (not just in this community, but in general). I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but giving credit just means you aren’t plagiarizing. It doesn’t mean that someone else’s work is now yours to repost in full on another site. A bot for reposting news links is one thing, but it really bugs me to see someone’s writing that they put a lot of work into posted to a different site without their knowledge.
100% agree with this. We should have the courtesy to ask the author for permission before spreading their work. They should be aware it was posted here in case they would like to respond to comments or if they need to make edits.
The only reason I don’t care all that much is because it’s all online in public, it’s made to be shared. Do you get upset when someone steals your meme and doesn’t credit you? The internet is just made for this kind of spread. It’s why comic creators use tags. Where do you draw the line for what online text is shareable or not shareable?
I feel like memes are made and meant to be shared hence the name. I feel a hobby drama post is more like a blog post to a community they are a member of. They are sharing it with members of that community and not intentionally sharing it with other communities. I also think asking for permission seems like a good middle ground between reposting all hobby drama posts from Reddit and banning all reposts.
My only issue with this is some of the people might not be there. They might have forgotten their accounts, left reddit or might be literally dead. I have definitely made some posts with some alts that I no longer remember the password to.
If we are going to require permission (which I am not for, for the record. I have a different philosophical view) then I would prefer it be an opt out type of thing. Meaning message the account, say that you are planning on reposting their post to Lemmy in the next week unless they respond and say they would rather not. That’s a win, win, win. Not only will you get a better repost rate (because let’s face it even if people don’t care, some people won’t bother answering their messages), you still give them the opportunity to say no and on top of that you get to introduce them to Lemmy!
I don’t know if we would be reposting really old posts or not so I’m not sure if that would be an issue. I think the opt out system is a good idea. At least it gives the creator a chance to decline the repost. Especially if we give them a decently long enough timeline to respond.
I wonder how this would all be enforced. Would you need to screenshot your PM to the OP?
I believe r/bestofredditorupdates usually just asks in the comments of the post so it’s public to everyone. Personally I don’t mind running on an honor system (since a fair share of the more popular HD posts are archived or authored by abandoned accounts) and if a write-up is reposted against the wishes of an author having a policy they can reach out to have the post here taken down.
For an example of a contacting the author issue though, the WoW write-up author was suspended by reddit and faik that was never revoked and the author never made another account. So there’s no way (that I’m aware of) to contact them and that’s a decently popular write-up that got voted an award by the subreddit community.
I don’t get fussed about it for myself because I know there is a large population on the internet that considers everything fair game and I post accordingly (not that I create so much stuff that everyone wants, haha). I learned that lesson twenty years ago when I spent ages in MS Paint creating a forum avatar for myself and soon started to see it popping up on other people’s profiles. I realized then that something might be legally* mine, but good luck enforcing that. Maybe most people also realize that and post knowing that they will be losing some control, but I don’t think that means we just give up all courtesy.
As far as sharing, I’m all for it - it is absolutely one of the best things about the internet. But to me it means sharing the link - “hey guys go read this cool thing” and then people can go and read and engage with the author on their work. Maybe you include some quotes with the link to give some context for sharing. It’s the wholesale cut+paste for the purpose of building up a different community that the author is not part of that I don’t care for.
Where I draw the line is a good question and I’m doubtless not always consistent. Memes? To me, the sharing and transforming is part of the nature of a meme - images are combined, text is updated or replaced, etc. Comics? Sharing one panel or whatever and directing to the artist’s site seems like the courteous thing to do, but if you are reposting so many of the artist’s comics that people just read your posts instead of going to the artist’s site I would consider that a problem.
Additionally, one benefit of requesting permission from the authors may be to attract some of them over here. I’d love to have more users passionate enough to write 5000 words about some obscure stamp collecting scandal on lemmy.
Going to answer you down here, but yeah I agree requesting brings us to the attention of posters and might entice them over here which would definitely help the community grow. I like the idea floated below of it being an opt-out request. I know it may come off a little rude, but some of the accounts for the most popular posts on the reddit are abandoned. The WoW one for example the poster was suspended by reddit and faik that was never revoked and OP didn’t make a new account or anything so there’s no way to reach them.
I like the opt-out idea, too. It’s clear that there are differing opinions on the ethics of reposting, so maybe attracting posters over here is the more widely-compelling argument. Maybe part of the notice of reposting could include an invitation to come and post it themselves.
I’m going to give it a week to see what everyone says, but right now I’m leaning towards (based on replies) strongly encouraging (but not requiring) posters sending an opt out message with a three day waiting period for a reply and then having a takedown policy for anyone who’s been reposted here who doesn’t want to be. More work for me, but I feel this might be a good middle ground. I mirrored my account on reddit so no one will have to make a Lemmy account to ask for a take down.
I did also reach out to the reddit mods a week ago asking for some guidance on how they’d like to link up, but I haven’t heard anything back which is why I decided to leave it to the community here.
I can definitely say I’ve messaged the mods on r/HobbyDrama about maybe giving us some support, official backing, and it’s been 11 days with no reply. I’ll encourage anything that helps us grow and maybe have people post their content both on Reddit and here.
I won't claim to know anything about this world but a quick check on Mercari shows me most Angelic Pretty dresses are below 50K (360 usd), with some exceptions around 80K (580 usd) for rare complete sets.
That's a far cry from 500 usd.
Note: These are all second hand in fabulous care and look almost new.
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