Blastasaurus,

Whoopi Goldberg is gonna be pissed.

LENINSGHOSTFACEKILLA,

is this a surprise to anyone?

gianni,

I think everyone would rather development effort for games go into Linux as opposed to macOS.

AceQuorthon,

Is there a Proton-like software for Mac?

Cornelius,

Wine is available for Mac, and Apple has started work on their game toolkit which was shown to run cyberpunk (albeit not well)

So yeah, but you’re probably better off just dual booting asahi tbh.

loganthered,

Does Asahi have full support for the GPU yet? Would Proton work on a non-x86-x64 architecture? Last time I tried it (around 6 months back, been a minute) it worked great for anything that didn’t need acceleration but I didn’t think it could handle much more.

sculd,

What…even a lot of niche games support Mac because there is a market there. But I am not playing a shooter on Mac anyway so whatever.

Auzy,

I switched from windows to Mac… I agree. The video cards on the M1/M2 is pretty bad (no proper raytracing and such). I actually got a PS5 and use that instead for gaming (and already have a XBOX Series X)

teraflopsweat,

As a Mac user, I’m fine with this tbh. I don’t game on my Mac and most people I know with one don’t either.

ylai,

As a user of an ecosystem that I care about, I totally do not. Why should the health of an ecosystem be dictated by my usage patterns or that of people that I know? Bit self-centered, also?

Also, today’s Apple fans and their “Apple-no-gaming” fiction are too quick to “forget” Bungie and how upset Steve Jobs was when Halo became Microsoft-exclusive. arstechnica.com/…/jobs-turned-down-bungie-at-firs…

bentropy,

Wow you guys hate apple more than I do and I really think they’re overpriced but okay hard and software for people with other needs. The apple users I know don’t really think about gaming at all, wondering how many seriously do.

airportline,
@airportline@lemmy.ml avatar

I mean it would be kinda nice to have games on mac

Cornelius,

The hatred has nothing to do with the products but the lack of participation in open standards like OpenGL or Vulkan.

Their products are incredibly well made (though I’d fuckin hope so given the pricing) and their software experience (barring the lack of good graphics API support) is quite nice.

ulkesh,
@ulkesh@beehaw.org avatar

And there’s nothing wrong with this. While I’d love to see companies develop games that run on all of the main three OSes, there is cost involved. And Valve determined that cost to be too high to worry with. This doesn’t mean Macs suck, it just means Macs are not a viable gaming platform for some companies and some games.

Imagine if we saw reason instead of simply adding ourselves to the “Macs suck” bandwagon. What a world that would be – with logic and reason and understanding. Nah, just pissing on things is better.

yournamehere,

Will there be any new Macs really? Isnt everything just some iPhone/ipad with iOS soonish? I doubt macs have any relevance in the future - just like last time when there was no Steve Jobs around. I mean there arent really any apps even for their watch… So why bother? Maybe they can just usw some cloudgaming …Apple ppl love paying and subscriptions.

space_comrade,

Not sure what you’re talking about, a whole lot of people use MacBooks, I don’t think their market share dropped significantly. Desktop Macs, sure maybe but I think even that won’t completely die out.

yournamehere,

They are just ipads soon.

space_comrade,

I’m not sure if that’ll happen any time soon, they’d lose out on the IT professionals, audio professionals etc.

I got one just this year and it certainly doesn’t feel like an iPad at all.

yournamehere,

You got a desktop or MacBook? Macbook pro is pretty nice but i dont see a future for osx or desktop. And while i agree some real professionals might keep using it for another decade but the vast majority of Adobe professionals will be replaced by other tech like AI or nuke artists etc

space_comrade,

I got a MacBook Pro M2. It’s a good piece of hardware, MacOS was kinda annoying at first since it’s my first MacBook but I got the hang of it and it’s basically a normal desktop environment to me right now and I can’t see that changing significantly in the near future, I don’t think AI is gonna move that fast as to completely eliminate the need for typical PC desktop environments.

yournamehere,

I stopped using it over ten years ago and dont look back at crap like quarkxpress or the finder. Only contact with osx i have now is old people with macbooks that have troubles with user permissions and Safari. Desktop PC can strive but i doubt mac desktop or osx will be part of that.

peter,
@peter@feddit.uk avatar

People have been saying that for years

ulkesh,
@ulkesh@beehaw.org avatar

Millions of developers of numerous technologies use Macs. To say macs won’t have relevance in the future is clearly uninformed. As a gaming platform, sure, Macs leave plenty to be desired, but as development computers, they work extremely well, if overpriced.

Moonguide,

They’re also the standard in some industries, inc. design and video production. At least where I’m at. Hate the OS with a passion but not having a mixed OS workplace sucks.

yournamehere,

That is the past. I know Photoshop ppl are getting laid off everywhere and replaced by nuke,ai and so on.Does Apple even do new desktop Workstations? Is that coke can still a thing?

rip_art_bell,
@rip_art_bell@lemmy.world avatar

Whoopie is not going to be happy

Molecular0079,

So…how long before Apple realizes that game devs are notoriously time-crunched and forcing them to target yet another proprietary graphics API is a stupid move for their gaming ambitions?

ampersandrew,
@ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

I'm not convinced they'll ever realize the problem with their strategy. They'll keep half-assing it every couple of years and wondering why they don't have a larger gaming audience.

Molecular0079,

Yeah, they keep trying to bring their walled-garden approach to gaming and it just won’t work. It’s like trying to build another console in the current gaming market and unrealistically expecting it to take off.

It’s also why I think the Vision Pro, despite how cool and innovative the tech might be, is also DOA.

sky,

Apple: only implements a proprietary graphics API

Also Apple: Why does no one make games for my platform??

mingistech,
@mingistech@lemmy.world avatar

Luckily it plays on Apple Silicon Macs beautifully through CrossOver. In the MacGaming sub users are getting 100+fps.

red,

It does, but Valve doesn’t spend money in taking any responsibility over it. Also I presume anticheat might not work properly.

In any scenario, the translation layer has a performance impact which for any competitive player is something that makes Apple a no-go.

Aatube,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Actually, they kinda do take responsibility for mac gaming. They helped develop https://github.com/KhronosGroup/MoltenVK which basically runs Vulkan on Metal. The Linux version uses Vulkan, so in theory it shouldn't be too hard to port, they just didn't.

red,

Because, again, they don’t want bad press when the translation layer doesn’t play ball with anticheat, or some other tech.

Aatube,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

it's literally just graphics, does nothing with anticheat, look at reshade, unless you use library-modifying addons it won't be picked up by anticheat

red,

Lol. It most definitely is not.

Aatube, (edited )
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Elaborate? Are you confusing MoltenVK with wine?

mingistech,
@mingistech@lemmy.world avatar

That’s funny because my son compared CS2 on my MacBook Pro vs his RTX 3060 PC build we put together last winter and he said how much more responsive the game felt on the Mac.

red, (edited )

That it works is one thing. That it always works as expected is another. Apple doesn’t want to take responsibility for that, and neither does Valve, when there’s not enough paying customers on that platform. It is what it is. Now the Proton layer is one thing, because Valve is selling Steam Decks. They will want that to become a big thing. They’ll go back to selling Steam Boxes (the living room console thing).

If Apple wants to ride that wave, they could.

mingistech,
@mingistech@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, CodeWeavers takes responsibility, Crossover is their product. Same company that originally created Proton for Valve. Solid product.

red,

Wrong. Just fucking wrong. Graphics was solved ages ago. Anticheat for mp has not.

Aatube,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

CS:GO had anticheat and was on Mac for ages. Granted they updated it to Live, but the underlying principles of design are still the same.

mingistech,
@mingistech@lemmy.world avatar

No you’re wrong. MP works just fine in CS2.

No need to have a meltdown because Mac users are enjoying the game too. lol.

Aatube,
@Aatube@kbin.social avatar

Wine was not created by CodeWeavers

mingistech,
@mingistech@lemmy.world avatar

We were discussing who supports the product. But interestingly CodeWeavers is responsible for over two-thirds of all commits to Wine, and the company also employs Wine’s primary maintainer, Alexandre Julliard, as its CTO.

henfredemars,

Is this true? Could I not do OpenGL on a Mac?

aluminium,

OpenGL is a fossil at this point.

henfredemars,

Is it not still maintained and the simplest graphics API available of the big three?

I learned that OpenGL is no longer maintained on Mac. I understand it’s on a might work but no guarantee status and no help if it breaks.

SolOrion,

The game still needs to support it, and very few things support OpenGL afaik.

sky,

They ship an outdated and unreliable implementation 😅 There are things that use it, but my understanding is you couldn’t use it in the same way you can on other platforms.

TonyTonyChopper,
@TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz avatar

CS 2 isn’t on open gl

DefinitelyNotAPhone,

Steve Jobs quite openly hated the idea of anyone gaming on a Mac because he felt like it made their products seem more childish or something. It seems like either nobody at Apple has managed to dig that particular brainworm out yet or have just decided that printing iPhone money makes all other concerns irrelevant.

ylai,

This is absolutely not true, certainly not at the time of Bungie and how Microsoft made Halo Xbox-exclusive: arstechnica.com/…/jobs-turned-down-bungie-at-firs…

EmhyrVarEmreis,

Too bad Apple guys won’t be able to play a casino with extra steps

Molecular0079,

Let’s be real. You don’t HAVE to buy the loot boxes lmao. It’s not like they make you any better as a player.

kadu,
@kadu@lemmy.world avatar

deleted_by_author

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  • Molecular0079, (edited )

    …so is gaming in general. What’s your point?

    My point is that they’re just cosmetic, unlike gacha games or other free to play games where you’re FORCED to buy loot boxes to unlock good weapons and items.

    A casino REQUIRES you to spend money in order to participate. CS2 does not. Big difference.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

    I haven't checked in on Counter-Strike in a long time, but we can and should call out shitty business practices designed to exploit gambling addiction to make you play when you don't want to. I'm not equipped to assess whether CS is designed that way, but gaming in general is not predatory and addicting in this way.

    Molecular0079,

    assess whether CS is designed that way

    It isn’t. There’s no grind to get better weapons so that you can remain competitive with other players and no paid lootboxes that give you an early advantage. You start out with the standard set of weapons just like any other player and that never changes. The only addicting thing about the boxes in CS2 is that they look cool but I’d say that that’s more on the player to decide whether they want it or not.

    It’s like saying providing the ability to paint your car is an addicting business practice, which I don’t really buy. This is not the same as pay-to-win and the distinction should be made here.

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

    You get no advantage from the battle passes in Street Fighter 6 either, but they're still designed in such a way to keep you chasing the rewards. It can be scummy without being pay to win. But again, I don't know what hooks CS2 has. Last I played CS:GO was when it was $15 and had no microtransactions.

    Molecular0079,

    But because they have no impact on the gameplay, the onus is entirely on the player whether they want it or not. At this point you’re basically saying that they made the battlepasses and lootboxes interesting and therefore they’re bad

    ampersandrew,
    @ampersandrew@kbin.social avatar

    No, I'm saying I've seen people who keep playing games with this kind of battle pass, loot box, or other reward system when they clearly stopped enjoying the game, the same way any addict keeps doing something they know is harmful to themselves. Systems like these (and again, I have no idea what kind CS2 implements, but it's a modern online live service game, so it's probably in the ballpark) just want you to be a body in the online queue so that other players have someone to play with, and they chase that goal through nefarious means.

    But because they have no impact on the gameplay, the onus is entirely on the player whether they want it or not

    Does a problem gambler keep gambling because they want to, or because they can't will themselves to stop?

    kadu,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Molecular0079,

    That’s how it works on most games

    Not really. A bunch of F2P games have lootboxes that give you a chance at better weapons / characters early on instead of going through a long grind. The set of CS weapons is the same and does not change.

    The community gets upset when it becomes pay-to-win. I wouldn’t consider CS to be pay-to-win though so I find the casino comparison a bit inaccurate.

    kadu,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

  • Loading...
  • Molecular0079,

    But I never argued it was

    You’re the one who brought up the idea that the game is a casino. A casino is pay-to-win, because you literally have to pay money to participate and having more money gives you advantages.

    This is not what CS is. You don’t have to pay money to participate and there are no upgrades weapons or characters as a result of paying more money.

    kadu,
    @kadu@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Molecular0079,

    A casino is pure gambling, there’s no parallel game attached to it

    What are you talking about? Blackjack, poker, literally any card game…these are all parallel games that accompany the gambling. You can play these games independently of spending money. Casinos just make it pay-to-win by offering bets and larger payout tables for high-rollers, etc.

    It might surprise you, but people understand what CS is.

    Except you because you can’t make the distinction between CS and a casino. That’s why I am explaining it to you. CS is a competitive shooter first where none of the loot box mechanics affect actual gameplay, which is more than you can say for a majority of F2P games. A casino REQUIRES you to pay money to even engage in it. I don’t get what’s so hard to understand about this.

    I’m talking about addictive gambling, I’m not talking about selling pay to win advantages.

    Stop moving the goal posts. Your whole point was calling CS a casino, but there’s massive differences between the two that you seem to gloss over. Now, if CS offered higher damage weapons, more health, etc. and the only way to get them was via loot boxes, then sure, I’d agree with you, but that’s not what CS does. Calling it simply a casino is just being reductive.

    Voyajer,
    @Voyajer@lemmy.world avatar

    CS skins are practically pay to lose thinking about it. They make you stand out against the map more.

    Molecular0079,

    That’s how I think of cosmetics in most MP games as well haha. They’re immersion breaking.

    EmhyrVarEmreis,

    I’m not even talking about loot boxes

    aluminium,

    Same is true for many other games that get shit for their Microtransactions. But Valve is on the “good guy” site, so rules don’t apply the same.

    Krafting,
    @Krafting@lemmy.world avatar

    deleted_by_author

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  • Aatube,
    @Aatube@kbin.social avatar

    …what do you mean? It’s not like Mac support was near universal before either

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