fuckcars

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Franzia, in [meme] How to reframe car-dependent zoning into terms that so-called Freedom-Loving Patriots™ can (hopefully) understand

I have the freedom to choose my transportation options. I wanna take the bus to work, better yet a quiet train? I can.

I dont have to worry about drinking and driving because I won’t be driving.

If my taxes raise, that’s ok because I can choose to ditch my car, which costs a lot more than I thought it did!

It would cost nothing to add a bike rack here, or include a sidewalk. And it would let more people spend money at this business, more often!

There are many leftist approaches to talking about class and social issues without using theory dork words like Bourgeoisie. Talking to the everyman about how our solutions will solve their problems or not disrupt their desires is the most important skill for us.

Fried_out_Kombi, (edited )
@Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world avatar

Also, one thing that I think is a good indicator that your solutions are the right ones is when you can argue for the same solution from wildly different value systems. Ending car dependency? I can just as easily argue that from a free-market libertarian perspective as from a socialist perspective. Whereas to be in favor of car dependency, there really is no way to argue for that under either value system without being wildly ideologically inconsistent.

Plus, as you say, actually arguing for these solutions using the language and value systems of our traditional opponents can do a lot to reach people who are on the fence. And it’s not even dishonest to do so because I genuinely believe ending car dependency is the more pro-freedom stance. It’s just about knowing your audience and putting things in the terms they’ll understand best.

BanditMcDougal,

Pretty easy to make a socialist argument for cars IMHO.

It’d go something like, “the only way to ensure the right to mobility is equally distributed is to ensure every individual has what equates to a bus station in their own home.”

Using an ideology to support a desired outcome isn’t as hard as it should be.

MenKlash,
@MenKlash@kbin.social avatar

If my taxes raise, that’s ok because I can choose to ditch my car

What about the ones who didn't want their taxes to be raised? Taxation is involuntary servitude, and no end can justify robbery.

agamemnonymous,

If you don’t like taxes, move out to the woods. Balking on taxes when you use the things they provide is no better.

MenKlash,
@MenKlash@kbin.social avatar

Examples like the Free Republic of Liberland were victims of the still existing institutional coercion.

Agorism is the way to abolish the apparatus of compulsion and coercion, and it's a long-haul goal.

Franzia,

OP asked for arguments that could help convince normal Americans

inasaba, in Montreal transit in shambles

The trend of treating SERVICES like they need to bring a profit rather than simply provide an essential service is extremely frustrating. At this rate, even the mail service will be whittled away until everything is privatized.

scytale, in ‘People are happier in a walkable neighborhood’: the US community that banned cars

culdesac.com if you actually want to see pictures of the place. The article just has a bunch of close up photos of walls and people.

lemann,

Ughh I love it. Can’t wait for urbanist youtube to dive into the details, and follow up on how well it works out.

thepianistfroggollum, in Are We Witnessing the END of the Car?

The answer to any headline that’s a question is No.

theKalash,

Yes, but the video still brings up some very good points.

okamiueru, in How the heck did we get here? Most best selling "cars" are now superzied pickups and SUVs.

The only nut job conspiracy I believe is that there is something in the food, water or air, that makes Americans dumb as fuck.

That’s how I rationalise their love for dumb impractical cars that look tough, and why complete dimwits get so much air time, let alone can become president.

Muffi,
jernej,

If Flint Michigan, the fact that US meat is banned from EU (and other places like China) and all the funky shit CIA has been doing has taught me anything is that you arr probably right

CADmonkey,

For decades in yhe US, there were huge V8 powered cars blowing lead exhaust into the air.

Other countries had cars, but they also had more public transportation, and the cars they had used smaller engines. Less fuel burned = less lead = fewer lead-addled moneyed old people fucking everything up.

HubertManne, in Ugly American cites
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

I know a lot of folks on cummunities like this who do not like parking infrastructure of any kind. Personally I like efficient garages like this and lots of incentive to keep the cars parked. Also laws to allow condo owners and such to put in a storage pod in the space.

driving_crooner,
@driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

Any parking is too much parking imo. If people know that they are going to get easy parking where they go they are incentiviced to use the car instead of using other more efficient transport methods.

FireRetardant,

Travel time and overall comfort/joy are also big factors in travel habits. Unless in a specifically car free area it seems unreasonable to have 0 parking available. A significant reduction in parking could make parking still far from easy while promoting other methods of travel if they are actually funded and exist in the area.

HubertManne,
@HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

I would love to see a car free area of my citiy. The downtown has this great area blocked off by a river on two sides, a lake on one, and an expressway on another. I wish they would close it to any traffic except busses and retail delivery.

moonsnotreal, (edited ) in I cannot agree with you on Cars, but Trucks? Yes.
@moonsnotreal@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

To play devils advocate for some trucks, in some situations they really are needed. I happen to live in an area with lots of dirt roads, and in the spring we have “mud season” where the roads just turn to soup. I have had it where the ruts are so deep (1-2 feet) that the only thing that could make it is a stupidly large truck.

That being said, the vast majority of people don’t live on or near dirt roads and never have a need for a truck this big.

pHr34kY,

I would also argue that a Suzuki Jimny / Samurai is plenty to get across a muddy track.

moonsnotreal,
@moonsnotreal@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yeah it probably is, I’ve just never seen this car before

snooggums,
@snooggums@kbin.social avatar

Wish the better car manufacturers put any effort into the small truck market, but apparently there just isn't enough demand for compact trucks to make non-cheapo versions.

ShittyRedditWasBetter,

I know this sub refuses to believe it, but people do tow and use the beds for home maintenance and improvement.

ChadyzGroove,

Yes, but you also have people like my dad, father-in-law, and some of my neighbors who would be perfectly fine without the trucks and large SUVs they have and renting a truck once a year for the time they do need the truck.

It’s not just the big box stores that rent trucks, the small town hardware store next to us rents trucks and does free delivery within 3 days of an order and in a 10 mile radius of the store.

So then you get down to towing which could also potentially be solved by renting depending how often or what you’re towing. If you’re towing something that can’t be done by car and doing it often then it probably makes sense to have a large vehicle to do that. Otherwise sensible sized vehicle with towing capacity to tow the thing you need. Our little hatchback with a hitch can tow 2000 lbs.

During the pandemic my wife and I went down to one car and she thought it was going to be a nightmare. Three years in and we are just fine and we have saved a ton of money in gas, insurance, and maintenance costs. Once or twice a year we think it would be nice to have a second car for a specific instance, but not enough to deal with the headache of the additional costs of additional car again.

My point with that last paragraph is that collectively, we have become so ingrained into thinking that it has to be the way it is, that many people are afraid to even try something different. Even when it’s going to be greatly beneficial to them over time.

ShittyRedditWasBetter,

I never said there weren’t people wasting resources who purchase them. There are plenty of people who use them for the correct reasons. All of you are here yelling me how they can all just rent a truck each weekend but that’s just not a sane use case.

magnusrufus,

Who yelled that at you?

TheDoctorDonna,

Some large vehicles are necessary but not generally for personal use. The amount of time most people actually spend using the largeness of their vehicle is greatly outweighed by the time not using the largeness. Just rent a large vehicle when you need one, it’s cheaper in many ways.

ShittyRedditWasBetter,

I’m not renting a vehicle every other weekend, it’s a pain in the ass. I’m not concerned about cost. There are plenty of people who use their trucks. There are plenty of personal use cases.

Nouveau_Burnswick,

I tow ~7.5 times a year, and use the bed ~50 times a year.

I’m replacing my truck with a berliner soon. It can tow 2,000kg with is probably 49)59 of my bed usages. I’ll rent a truck the 7-8 times a year I tow plus any time the utility trailer is insufficient.

People do complete these tasks, but massively underestimate the number of times they complete them. I log all vehicle use, so I’ve got rel data to use instead of feelings. The trigger for replacing my truck is the need to fit a car seat, but once I did the math, the berliner will cost me less per year than my current vehicle even with adding some financing, and and order of magnitude less than going for a larger truck.

Edit: Berliner = sedan.

ShittyRedditWasBetter,

I have to tow about 8,500, 10-15 times a year and use the bed at least 6 or 7 times a year.

Plenty of people have very valid use cases.

Nouveau_Burnswick,

Plenty of people do have valid use cases!

Even more people do not.

someguy3,

The question is how often. I think people vastly, vastly overestimate how many times they need a truck bed.

Pipoca,

Only like 25% of pickup drivers actually tow more than once a year, and only slightly more actually use the bed.

Most of those people would be better off if they could just rent a truck a few times a year if they actually need to. Fairly few people who tow infrequently need a truck on short notice to e.g. tow an injured horse to the vet. And most of the rest would be better off with a smaller truck like they used to make.

People who actually use their trucks to the fullest exist, but are a fairly small minority. People wouldn’t really care about trucks if only people who really need them had them, and if there were a wider variety of things like kei trucks for light farm work.

TheDoctorDonna,

The ruts are there because of stupidly large vehicles going down the muddy road. You need more capable, not bigger.

XaeroDegreaz, in A Mother And Daughter Got Trapped In A Rental Tesla After It Ran Out Of Charge

This reminds me of that Seinfeld episode about car reservations.

FlyingSquid, in That looks familiar
@FlyingSquid@lemmy.world avatar

Now stop me if you’ve heard this before, but what if… and this is just a thought, don’t get too worked up… but what if instead of just one of those, we hooked a bunch of them together and pulled them with something?

nsantoro73,
@nsantoro73@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

HOLY SHIT GIVE THIS GUY A CONTRACT!

frostbiker, (edited )

I’m not sure we have the technology to achieve such greatness, but if we did, we could call it a TRAnsportation Innovation Network or TRAIN for short.

DepthCharge, in Flying into a car dependent city be like

Visited that place a lot in my childhood. Great castles

superduperenigma, in Flying into a car dependent city be like

This is actually a really fun and cool image

friend_of_satan, in Cars are getting out of Hand

STOP blocking traffic in the crosswalk, car!

STOP your social chit-chat that is inconveniencing everybody else!

STOP being an irresponsible cross guard!

histy, in ask patrick

I like trains

Colour_me_triggered,

I am also autistic. Unfortunately the train line doesn’t extend to my home town.

NarrativeBear, (edited ) in [meme] How would you rather see this land developed?

I would think looking at this comment section most individuals on this sub hate cars, but love homes with large driveways and massive streets. To drive the cars we hate?

Mid-density apartment are a thing, maybe 4-6 floors tall.

Though north america apartment design is another issue IMO. North america apartment floor plates are unfortunately not designed for families. When was the last time you saw a 3 or 4 bedroom apartment?

Edit: I should add, when was the last time you saw a 3 or 4 bedroom apartment that cost less then a full size family home in the suburbs.

Jakeroxs,

What, there are lots of 3-4 bedroom apartments lol

NarrativeBear, (edited )

I work for a architectural firm, and unfortunately most new high-rise towers, and mid-rise towers, that I see come through my desk prioritize bachelor’s pads, 1 bed, 1 + den, or 2 bedroom usually the second bedroom has no window.

It simply comes down to developer cost and north american fire codes. Two exits stairwells minimum and a exit every 45 meters.

This article demonstrates the concept in greater detail.

centerforbuilding.org/…/we-we-cant-build-family-s…

Jakeroxs,

Ah that makes more sense, I know there are a lot in the suburbs but I can definitely see it being much less common in highrise or midrise tower apartments.

Cryophilia,

“fuckcars” people literally and exclusively start and end their philosophy with “fuck cars, bikes rule”. No consideration of secondary or related effects. It’s a culty thing.

knexcar,

I always assumed it was the posts reaching “all” and actually getting diverse/dissenting opinions (unlike a certain other site!)

boredtortoise, in [meme] How would you rather see this land developed?

Diversity is good. Different types of homes and zoning. Mix of nature and buildings

uint8_t,

abolish zoning

boredtortoise,

Yeah sure, that could also be nice. I guess I meant that even in that case, without pre-zoning, the end result should be diverse

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