No matter what we do or suggest, troglodytes are going to look at the step up or downstream from that and claim that nothing matters because nothing is "as good" so why bother.
I think it’s cool in theory, but the area is having a housing accessibility crisis, and it seems to be part of that problem and uses this format to hide that.
They have a lower emissions after a few years even with higher initial manufacturing emissions even in areas with coal as the source of power, just takes longer to recoup. youtu.be/6RhtiPefVzM?si=ythLgdv93D6zC3WM
They allow for government to control the means of electricity production that powers these vehicles
While not perfect it is a decent step to remove the individual citizen’s direct pollution and leave control In the hands of government. This is where the change needs to happen for manufacturing and other large scale polluters.
On the second part: That’s just because for some reason most governments don’t care that it would be much more profitable to everyone if state corporations took care of petrol exploitation instead of private companies that profit few investors…
I'm always impressed how this point is usually happily ignored in the US. You had a sane public transport network ffs. You destroyed it on purpose to now pretend it's not possible.
@Ooops@Fried_out_Kombi When US people tell you their cities were built for the car, remind them that in fact their cities were bulldozed over to make room for cars.
I was driving out to a job site in Montréal this week. On Wellington Street, within the Griffintown neighborhood, a street that was redone less than a year ago is already cratered to the point that tram tracks were poking out; I believe they were killed in the 60’s.
That story again: Montréal traffic so heavy it’s self excavating public transit.
Indeed there was so much bulldozing that you have to remind people that American cities were not in fact bombed out during World War II, we did that to ourselves
In my city museum (itself located in a former passenger train terminal) there is a 1/64 scale model of the city from the 1930s-40s, complete with the full streetcar system with trains that run. Every time I go there, it fills me with rage at what was destroyed.
Whew! It’s a good thing trucks never go through cross walks or across curb cuts to get into parking lots and drive throughs.
The only reason people ride scooters on the sidewalks is because our infrastructure is severely lacking and you get stuck “sharing” a lane with a 6000+lb truck.
but you don’t even need to be particularly swole to reach 30 km/h on a bicycle, how does that work then? Do they arrest people without speedometers on their bikes?
Yeah, in general. Cars are not allowed to drive on sidewalks under most if not all circumstances. The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars. We want walkable cites, not e-scootable.
No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it’s supposed to signify a shared space?
The point is that e-scooters have their restrictions for a reason, regardless of any whataboutism relating to cars.
I mean if sneezing at running speed of physically unfit person is so terrible, then why the fuck cars are not hardlimited to 10 km/h?
No clue what that street sigh means, but I guess it’s supposed to signify a shared space?
Kinda (article from where I took sign). Here it means transit traffic(driving through) is not allowed, speed is limited to walking speed(which in my country defined as 20km/h) and vehicles should yield to any pedestrians. Usually it is placed around micro-district where internal roads are connected to two or more city highways.
Only at specific points where a car crossing a sidewalk is expected, such as a turn in to a driveway, or an active emergency that would require the car to cross onto the pavement. Drivers can’t just yeet themselves across the pavement for no reason.
I mean if sneezing at running speed of physically unfit person is so terrible, then why the fuck cars are not hardlimited to 10 km/h?
Because drivers have to go though training and always have the potential of having their license revoked. Not anyone can just walk up to a car dealership and walk out with a car and no understanding of road law. Divers can just be trusted more than people using other modes of transport, which is why they get to move faster.
And again, whataboutism. Being the lesser of two evils is not the same as being acceptable.
In denser commerical areas, up to and even exceeding 50% of the sidewalk space can be driveways and entrance ways for cars. Add that many of this style of road can be 4+ lanes and 60+ km/h traffic. There is a lot of potential conflict areas, drivers often enter these driveways exceeding speeds safe for pedestrianized areas and these roads are designed for drivers to see other cars, not notice pedestrians.
As for trusting drivers due to their “training” most drivers are taught once while they are a teenager/young adult, pass some short practical tests (maybe 1 hour total time of testing) and are now trusted for a lifetime of driving. They never get retested despite change in driving laws, car technology, changes to their physicsl or mental health, or time since their last test. Driving infractions are paid off by monetary fines and not dealt with by mandated retraining courses.
The existence of a driver’s lisence as proof of a safe driver means very little to the cyclist who got hit by a right turning vehicle thhat vehicle did not check their mirrors for a clear bicycle gutter.
They’re not supposed to do a lot of things, and yet they do all of those things. They speed, they overtake dangerously, they kill pedestrians and cyclists, they kill or injure other motorists.
“But there’s a rule against it” doesn’t resolve problems like all the pedestrian and cycling deaths that we seem to accept as a needful sacrifice to keep bad transport infra and as-is. There are also rules against scooters operating dangerously. I’m not sure why bigger, heavier, more-powerful vehicles ought not to be subject to similar kinds of controls scooters are
Not to detract from the idea that trucks are dangerous (they most definitely are) but I’m not sure this is the best argument for this. An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels. 4 wheels will do many other dangerous things. but assholes who ride their two wheels on sidewalks going top speed even at 15 without making room for pedestrians is a valid concern.
It’s also primarily an issue of lacking infrastructure. Two wheeled assholes wouldn’t be on the sidewalk if there was a bike lane, unless they’re huge two wheeled assholes.
100% this, the only time I ride my ebike on the sidewalk is when there is no bike lane or separate bike path. Cause if I have to choose between riding on a 45 mph road or the sidewalk I’m gonna pick the sidewalk and just go slower when pedestrians are around.
I unapologetically ride my bike on the sidewalks because I don't want to die. I'm careful not to hit anyone and would love for protected bike lanes to be put in everywhere
An asshole in a truck doesn’t mean they necessarily will drive their truck down the sidewalk like what is common with assholes on two wheels.
Not to defend irresponsible scooter use, but the ‘but scooters are more commonly a hazard to pedestrians’ argument could (and arguably should) be expanded to include trucks vs. cyclists.
I don’t always have bad interactions with motorists, but when I do it’s almost always some guy in a truck that feels entitled to drift over into the bike lane while I’m in it, or when there isn’t a bike lane, to overtake dangerously- if I have one thing I feel threatened by when I ride my bike, it’s not scooters, it’s badly-behaving motorists but mostly men in trucks.
If we’re going to use the ‘I feel threatened by scooters when I am a pedestrian’ measure to justify regulating them, what if I feel threatened by big truck drivers when I am a cyclist? Yeah this all ultimately boils down to inadequate infra so not everyone has a safe or appropriate place to be, and these are all real problems- it doesn’t make sense to me to decide one of them ought not to be addressed.
Right? The scooters are only in the sidewalks because the cars actively make the roads dangerous for them. But here we are in a place that supposedly hates cars defending them against a very useful replacement for a huge amount of people.
My city has a pretty good protected bike lane network, and a result is you rarely see scooters or bikes on the sidewalks (at least in the parts of town with good protected bike lanes). Instead, you get lots of scooters and bikes zipping safely by without endangering pedestrians. At least on my route to work, I’m about 90% sure there are more commuters in the bike lanes than cars on the road, despite the cars getting 90+% of the road space.
I frickin love protected bike lanes. Turns a stressful experience into a downright pleasant one. It feels 10000x safer than riding on streets without protection.
You should still wear a helmet. It isn’t there for cars, it’s there because going from biking speed to no speed is more than enough acceleration to cause injury.
it’s so fascinating how people absolutely lose their minds over e-scooters, and these are people who shit on drivers for doing the exact same thing to cyclists!
Yeah I hate these scooters even with good infrastructure (Germany) people still can’t stop themselves from basically trying to run you over and when they are not in use they are usually left in a place (sidewalks, pedestrian paths etc) that blocks pedestrian traffic. Not to mention the people taking shitload of this stuff into the public transport and making it even more crowded.
Never had a driving license, can’t be bothered with it when public transport gets the job done.
But like people don’t ride them badly here, so clearly that’s a solvable problem. I’d wager germany generally doesn’t actually really have that good bicycle infrastructure.
As for them being left all over the place, that’s a regulation problem specific to rental scooters, and doesn’t apply at all to privately owned ones but people like you just ignore that completely.
Also like, you’ve seen where people park their cars, right? a car in the middle of the bike path is vastly more annoying than an e-scooter.
Calling problems “solvable problems” or “regulation problems” does not make them go away they are still problems associated with e-scooters. I always hear good stuff about Germany’s bicycle infrastructure but I guess it is suddenly bad when it is covenient for you to make your point.
Of course a car parked on a bike path is more annoying than e-scooters I’ve never said e-scooters were worse than cars, but still I find them extremely annoying as a person that is travelling mostly on foot.
They need the same infrastructure that bicycles and have gotten popular really fast. Since the infrastructure cannot accomodate them (no bike lane), the scotters become a nuisance for everyone.
With proper infrastructure though (cycling lanes and parking spots) they are fine. (Some might argue about users not following the rules, I’d say, sometimes you can’t respect the rules because the street is shit).
Also private companies monopolising public space, not cool. (that one I still stand by, and I hope they pay “rent” that goes towards maintaining the roads.)
I suspect there is a bit of a compounding effect with renting the scooters (more prevalent where I live), which makes users less respectful. Or a novelty effect with teenagers rushing past on their new toy. In my experience that wears out fast, though.
I guess even here some forget that you can put the scooters on bike lanes :)
Same here, my town simply has multi-use paths basically on every other street and the only problem i see with e-scooters is that for some inscrutable reason people insist on parking the rental ones literally in the middle of the road???
It’s incredibly strange because they don’t even park them near a destination, literally just in the middle of nowhere…
But other than that people behave really well, and it makes me smile so very much to see families where the kids have their own bikes and e-scooters and the parents are riding rental ones, the added convenience of e-scooters has absolutely gotten more people out of their cars and actually experiencing the world and interacting with people around them.
That and the assholes who just dump them in the middle of what little infrastructure we do have. Around here they are constantly blocking sidewalk, bike lanes, and mixed use paths.
All city needs to do is to put giant “put ebikes here” sign over on-street vehicle storage spot(in car-dependent places it’s called parking spot). One such spot can store 10-20 ebikes or 20-30 escooters.
As somebody who lives in a town with a shitload of those scooters I can say it’s slightly rarer for a pickup to simply ram itself though a crowd of people in the arrogant assumption they’ll move out of the way.
For as much as I like about living in a friendly tourist town, no the people here are a touch too civilized to assault a high school over a scooter accident.
I’d argue having electric vehicles harassing pedestrians on the sidewalks and trails contributes to the number of cars on the road as it makes walking or taking a pedal bike anywhere even more inconvenient, the opposite of what we need.
If it makes you feel any better, someone tried doing this to me while they were on a scooter.
Unfortunately for them, but lucky for me, I can’t feel that side of my body… so I knee jerk threw out my arm, effectively close lining him.
Due to my slight limp, it did not go well publicly for the guy on the scooter, as most the crowd were insisting I press charges for assault for him speeding down a busy sidewalk. Suffice to say, despite the bruises, I didn’t really feel it, so I didn’t press charges and said we all make mistakes just be more cautious.
In my experience cars do that all the time, and the only reason it doesn’t happen more is because all our laws and infrastructure has been built to ensure that cars get absolute priority. Let’s be clear, the reason we are having this debate is because 90% of our transport corridors have been surrendered to only cars, while the rest of us are left squabbling over the few tiny un-prioritized slivers that aren’t blocked by yet more cars. We need wider footpaths, and wider better cycle lanes to allow e-scooters to travel at higher speeds. This space is avalible by slightly shrinking the traffic lanes.
Not everyone lives in a cityscape hellhole so we are going to need higher speeds to be able to not suck up people’s free time just to be able to get within range of a job without living in a sardine can apartment complex.
Not everyone can live within 1 mile of their job, and travel via bike – nor does everyone want to.
If you’re going to limit everyone and everything to 5mph, then you need an alternative that provides a quicker means of travel in rural/suburban areas.
Yeah, 6.2mph is silly even just from a riding perspective. I am not the most fit and I'm fairly sure I would need to force myself to ride that slow (and it'd probably feel less stable). Around other people sure.
12.4mph is not so bad, at least with my underpowered ebike I'd have to really put in a lot of power to go above that and it'd use up too much battery power (and thus range). If anything I stay around 9/10mph for efficiency (and it's just a comfortable riding pace, also I have an upright riding position so not the most aerodynamic). My ebike's motor cuts off at 15.5mph (even though again, it doesn't really go that fast) because EU rules (even though I'm in the US).
This is an article about imposing speed limits on existing bike paths for existing people with existing bikes. Nobody (sadly) wants to take away your Dogde Ultra RAM 40K, and you’re still free to live wherever you want, dipstick.
Get back to r/fuckcarscirclejerk and have fun burning your strawmen with your fascist friends there.
EVs can also act as a battery for the home and a back up generator. A lot more useful than just a car. Now I know this sublulemmy is urbanist, but the sorts of people to buy a car don’t live in a city.
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