TC on open source evangelists

[email protected] - Oh my gosh I just figured it out.

Okay, all you open source evangelist people: your knee-jerk reaction to come at people who are talking about a problem with whatever commercial software they use and suggest Your Favorite Alternatives™ is exactly like saying “why don’t you just buy a house?” to someone complaining about their landlord.

[email protected] - Actually, to borrow from @DoubleA, it’s worse than that.

It’s like talking to someone who is in a crappy apartment as though they have the agency and skills to stake out a plot of land and build their own home.

You have to be at peace with the fact that some people just want to exist and not worry about so many things. And they still have a right to complain about their situation.

Link to thread: mas.to/

virtueisdead,

It looks like what they were trying to convey is apparently that it can be a large time and effort commitment that most people don’t have the technical expertise to figure out, which is a fairly reasonable argument in some contexts, but I do not think they conveyed it very well and they’re being kind of a dick about it in the replies, so idk. I understand the point, but this is NOT the way to get it across.

Templa,

Very convenient that you left out a lot of context, but I’m an open source enthusiast and he’s not wrong.

Dieinahole,

It really isn't though.

A day or two or even a week to get the hang of something isn't a 40-year mortgage

huginn,

Open cad just isn’t the same though

aesopjah,

yeah, freeCAD is kinda crappy compared to even F360

Honytawk,

Does Fusion 360 have a free version?

aesopjah,

meh, yes and no. typical auto desk shenanigans. free for personal use.

Honytawk,

So is it free free, or is it free* for personal use?

As in, can I as an amateur use it with all the functions enabled for an unlimited time without spending money?

Because I can with FreeCAD.

MangoPenguin,
@MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yep

MrMamiya,

Poor people don’t have time above all else. A lot of times they are working 2 jobs, sometimes with those jobs doing shady scheduling where you are essentially on call without being paid for being on call.

Also tons of people just aren’t as smart as you are at computer things. Guess what? If they were you wouldn’t be as cool as you are for being able to do it.

I’ve found everyone has something they can teach me, whether it’s how to be or how not to be.

A great way to use your talent would be to assemble the resources that made you good at something and post it online so others can be lifted up by your knowledge.

Everyone in this entire world’s life is at minimum as complex and nuanced as your own. It’s kinda rough to assume laziness of people you don’t know well.

I’ve been up and down, and I ain’t better than anyone on here, I’m just trying to add a little of my perspective.

averyminya,

This is actually my argument for general consumer AI access. That person you’re describing already wouldn’t be able to pay an artist for a commission, but they can take 15 minutes to generate some images that make them happy. People deserve anything we can get that brings us joy in this time sensitive world.

Dieinahole,

Ahhh.... i suck at computers. Nowadays anyway.

But FOSS generally has the tech nerd I wish I was going over it, finding and squawking loudly about vulnerabilities, instead of quietly writing backdoors in.

No, it's not as stable and easy out of the box, but it's less likely to turn you into ICE because your name is half mexican

drwankingstein,

this is a really dumb take lmao

AVincentInSpace,

When I say to my sister “I will literally buy the house for you, help you move in, and give you my phone number you can call any time you need any help with it” and she comes back with “I’d rather sit here and complain about my landlord” I think I have a right to get angry

vivadanang,

you have to admit this is one hell of an edge case. the vast majority don’t have your sister’s ‘problem’

cwagner,

I think the majority of us also don’t want to play tech support.

vivadanang,

the sword is double edged, the ones you neglect will come to you when it gets bad.

cwagner,

Which is why me and people like me don’t care much what our relatives use :D

ILikeBoobies,

You haven’t seen the FOSS community then

Also you will have to play tech support no matter what if you set them up

Templa,

Or you will need help and ask questions and people will assume you are “lazy asking” and be toxic just because you are a beginner and don’t know stuff. Recently I’ve lost count on how many projects I joined some kind of communication space like Discord and left as soon as I saw how awful people can be when they want to gatekeep

MiddledAgedGuy,

I don’t like helping non-tech people because they don’t want to learn. They just want it fixed. I understand the mindset and I’m that same way on other things. But I don’t want to be their “tech guy”.

I do like helping in the FOSS community though because people generally do want to learn.

LibertyLizard,
@LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net avatar

If I had you as a sibling I would use a lot more foss stuff then lol.

Honytawk,

Yeah, and that is their opinion, which is as valid as yours.

They are the ones who will have to use the software day in and out, they should be the ones to decide which software they use.

AVincentInSpace,

okay but you still don’t get to act like i’m saying “just buy a house!”

Lord_Wunderfrog,

What do you mean not every casual computer user wants to wrestle with drivers, troubleshooting and running everything through wine all the time?

AVincentInSpace,

I literally cannot remember the last time I had a driver issue with Linux but go off

tastysnacks,

Pre Linux 2.6

photonic_sorcerer,
@photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com avatar

Try being stuck with an Nvidia card

yiliu,

https://informis.land/pictrs/image/3f0874fb-2a42-4381-adcc-6e9f8ca4f511.jpeg

toothpicks,

( // out of the loop ) who wants to catch me up on the whole Nvidia thing lol

yiliu,

They’ve never released proper open-source drivers for Linux, or helped external developers make any, or made it easy to use their closed driver with Linux. They’re just hostile to open source, basically. That used to be pretty common in the old days, but most companies have given up and joined in, which is why installing Linux is usually a smooth experience these days.

If you’re using Linux: get an AMD card. They just work out of the box, no failures to boot to GUI or anything. It just works…like everything else. Which, having spent 20 years fighting with graphics drivers on Linux, is sheer bliss to me.

Oh, but the defacto standard for anything AI-related is NVidia. So if you ever wanna mess with LLMs, object detection, speech recognition, etc…you’re likely stuck with NVidia, and the old routine: Got a problem? Of course you do. Try reinstalling the drivers three times, then uninstall some random other packages, then burn some incense, say 10 Hail Marys, and make an offering to the GPU gods before restarting the computer. Didn’t work? Well, repeat all those steps in a different order. Fifth time’s the charm!

jarfil,

If you want to mess with AIs… there are cloud servers you can rent for a few cents on the hour with some blazing fast NVidia cards, that come with all the drivers and some toolkits already preinstalled.

As long as you don’t forget to shut them down when not in use, they can turn out to be cheaper than a single GPU, with none of the hassle.

ILikeBoobies,

Nvidia is notorious for having bad drivers and they serialized their cards so people can’t fix it

toothpicks,

Thanks

ILikeBoobies,

Haven’t had any

java,

I’ve been using Nvidia and Linux for 13 years. I’ll repeat:

I literally cannot remember the last time I had a driver issue with Linux but go off

Honytawk,

Then you are luckier than most.

Reil, (edited )

Multiple monitors, touch screens, tablet digitizers remain a letdown constantly. Not always fully broken, but falling just short enough that actually fixing it is a pain and just living without the feature (or Linux) is easier.

Zorque,

It's more like telling someone "Why don't you just build your own house?"

mPony,

brb recompiling my porch

Rekhyt,

Recompiling my foundation and hoping it still holds the house up when I’m done.

yiliu,

That was true in 2000. The situation had improved a lot by, like, 2005, but it was still pretty rough. You were still likely to have to drop to a console at some point even in 2010.

These days there’s 20 distributions that are easier to install, use, and maintain than Windows, and you don’t even have to know ls to use it.

Honytawk,

That is great!

And how many of those work out of the box on every type of hardware including new laptops without having to look up compatibility?

1993_toyota_camry,
@1993_toyota_camry@beehaw.org avatar

No operating system meets those criteria, open source or commercial.

yiliu,

I’ve installed Linux on at least 20 laptops & desktops in the past decade, many for first-time users. I generally go with Mint or ElementaryOS for newbies. I can’t remember ever having a compatibility issue. I’m sure they still happen sometimes, but when people talk about it they act like it’s still 2005.

bionicjoey,

Translation:“I refuse to try the thing that people tell me might make my life better. I prefer to rant and complain to random strangers on a public forum rather than accepting that a solution to my problem may exist”

It’s funny, this is not at all his stance when it comes to hardware and appliances. It doesn’t even sound like something he’d say.

dom,

The whole point is that a bunch of people don’t have the technical skills to figure out FOSS. Sure, sometimes the ux is just as good as the main competitor, but in my experience, usually it isnt and has a decent learning curve

bionicjoey,

I’d be more sympathetic to that mindset if it was anyone other than TC saying this. He’s a smart dude and I have every confidence he could figure out how to use a new piece of software.

dom,

I think he’s talking in general. But who knows.

helenslunch,

He is a smart guy but that doesn’t mean he knows everything. I’ve never seen him demonstrate proficiency in software.

0xD,

… could.

Or he (and anyone else) could go and do one of 20000 other potentially way more interesting things with their life.

Imagine that?

dallo,

ui/ux sucks because it is hard to onboard designer into FOSS logic.

dallo,

True with QA, technical writers and PMs too

Kusimulkku,

It’s an interesting take from a tech YouTuber to say they are not good with tech

Anon124,

He is the other kind of thech tho. He isn’t the programmer kind of tech.

dom,

He’s noticed an issue that people who are into tech always push complicated things onto non techies. I don’t see how that is contradictory or weird…

Kusimulkku,

This was a case of people coming to him

Thevenin,

This.

Last month, I installed Mint, which is my first ever Linux install. I chose it because people said it would be the most hassle-free.

The bugs currently plaguing me include:

  • Steam’s UI scaling is off, to the extent that I practically need a magnifying glass to read it.
  • Bluetooth has now decided that it no longer wants to automatically connect to my speaker.
  • Discord won’t share audio during screen sharing anymore.

But the big one, the one that made me stop and think, was the keyboard. Right out of the box, my function keys (brightness, airplane mode, etc) would not work. This turned out to be because the laptop was not recognizing its keyboard as a libinput device, but treating it as a HID sensor hub instead. To fix it, I had to:

  • Find similar problems on the forums and recognize which were applicable to my case.
  • Learn what the terminal was and how to copy code into it.
  • Learn that the terminal can be opened from different folders, which alters the meaning of the commands.
  • Learn the file system, including making how to make hidden files visible.
  • Figure out that a bunch of steps in the forum were just creating a text file, and that any text editor would do.
  • Figure out there were typos and missing steps in the forum solutions.
  • Learn what a kernel is, figure out mine was out of date, and update it.
  • Do it all over again a month later when for some reason my function keys stopped working again.

For me, this was not a big deal. It did take me two evenings to solve, but that’s mostly because I’m lazy. But for someone with low technical literacy (such as my mom, who barely grasps the concept of ad blockers in Google Chrome), every one of these bullet points would be a monumental accomplishment.

The FOSS crowd can be a bit insular, and they seem to regularly forget that about 95% of the people out there have such low technical literacy that they struggle to do anything more involved than turn on a lightbulb.

Domiku,

I follow him on Mastodon, and I think many regular users misunderstand his specific problems. They’re unique due to his huge number of followers, and I think that if we want Mastodon to grow, it wouldn’t be a bad idea to include more tools for folks with large followings.

helenslunch,

I think Mastodon conceptually doesn’t care about big users. And they don’t care about growing. Gargeon certainly has as many followers as anyone and certainly understands any associated problems.

Domiku,

That’s fine, but we need to just admit that and stop trying to get the big users to stay by sheer force of will. Either give them the tools they need or accept that Mastodon isn’t for them and that they’ll go elsewhere. You can’t have it both ways.

helenslunch,

What I’m saying is no one cares if they stay or go.

Domiku,

Clearly they do care though. Look at all of the earnest replies to his posts! If folks didn’t care, they would say as much.

Pantherina,
@Pantherina@feddit.de avatar

Thats like the exact opposite

Grrbrr,
@Grrbrr@sopuli.xyz avatar

Are you trying to gather a lynch mob here? I think posts like these are quite bad taste. Most wont have a good understanding of the situation.

Does this really fit this community?

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted,

I agree. As inaccurate as Technology Connection’s statement is, this post here is kind of…distasteful.

YuzuDrink,
@YuzuDrink@beehaw.org avatar

Is there a community where a take like this would be considered and welcome? Asking because I would like to follow that community…

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

same tbh

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

I think it’s a discussion worth having, since it’s clearly a recurring problem.

inverted_deflector,

with all do respect, what discussion can we have here other than dunking on technology connections with an out of context post that misses the second post that clarifies what hes actually saying?

valaramech,
@valaramech@kbin.social avatar

In this thread, everyone getting caught up on the first toot and not the second where he clarifies his point.

If you step past the initial investment of buying a house, the analogy makes perfect sense. When you rent an apartment, your landlord (the provider) takes care of all the maintenance; you just live there and you get what you get. When you own a home, you take care of all of the maintenance, but you get to set the place up however you like. This isn't that different from a lot of FOSS out there.

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted,

In this thread, everyone getting caught up on the first toot and not the second where he clarifies his point.

To be fair, the second part is not included in the image.

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Lemmy doesn’t allow for multiple images as far as I’m aware, so I did the next best thing: put it in the description

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted,

Not saying I blame you; you’re bound by the limitations/restrictions of the platform.

I’m just saying it’s not as obvious and so others may not have noticed it. :)

helenslunch,

So why didn’t he include the second part in the first post? Almost send like he WANTS people to misunderstand. I can’t understand why he’s even on fedi when all he ever does is try to stir the pot

Honytawk,

Doesn’t Mastodon have only 300 characters like old Twitter?

t3rmit3,

your landlord (the provider) takes care of all the maintenance

this is a dirty lie :P

ericjmorey,
@ericjmorey@programming.dev avatar

This feels like gossip and I wish that Lemmy would let me mark this post as hidden.

Rentlar,

Mastodon, like Twitter is a gossip platform, as far as I can tell. Too bad you can’t filter out screenshots of other social media posts en masse.

ono,

is exactly like saying “why don’t you just buy a house?” to someone complaining about their landlord.

What an idiotic comparison.

Buying a house costs so much money and time that most people cannot afford to, and those who can generally must go into debt for most of their remaining lives in order to do so. Suggesting FOSS to replace “whatever commercial software they use” is the polar opposite, in that it’s literally free (usually in both senses of the word). It’s more like suggesting that someone consider a new route to commute from home to work.

Also, this opening…

Okay, all you open source evangelist people: your knee-jerk reaction to come at people

…is incredibly reductive and combative. The world needs less of that, not more.

Hyperreality, (edited )

Buying a house costs so much money and time that most people .... Suggesting FOSS to replace “whatever commercial software they use” is the polar opposite, in that it’s literally free

Suggesting people 'just' buy a house is unhelpful, because it assumes they have enough money to do so.

Suggesting people 'just' use FOSS is often unhelpful, because it assumes they have sufficient computer abilities and/or have the time to learn how.

Some kid who's just started writing his thesis and enjoys fiddling with stuff? Sure, recommend LaTex.

Some overstretched parent of two, who gets home at 8 and just needs to edit a powerpoint for a presentation at the end of the week? No, suggesting they install a piece of software, something they've never done before, and learn to use this piece of software they've never used, to finish something that needs to be done by the end of the night, and that they're almost certainly going to be using in an office (ie. windows/office) environment? Not helpful.

ono, (edited )

The difference here is mountains vs. molehills.

And in most cases, they obviously do have sufficient ability to learn how, because they were able to learn the commercial software they’re currently using.

As for time, yes, learning always takes time. (Thus my comparison to learning a new commute.) But suggesting that someone learn something new is not stupid or unreasonable, especially if the thing they currently use is not serving them well.

  • In response to that paragraph you added after I replied:

I don’t know why you would think that cherry-picked and extremely specific scenario is somehow representative of the general subject we’re discussing. Of course situations exist where learning alternative software isn’t the best answer. That doesn’t make it wrong for people to suggest the alternatives. Quite often, they’re perfectly viable, and it’s perfectly reasonable to try to help by making someone aware of them.

Hyperreality,

You should just learn Chinese.

You have a sufficient ability to learn Chinese, you learnt how to speak the language you're currently using.

Learning takes time, but me suggesting you 'just' learn Chinese isn't stupid or unreasonable, especially as your inability to speak Chinese is limiting your audience and career opportunities, and not serving you well.

ono,

You should just learn Chinese.

That’s disingenuous. I wasn’t complaining about English not serving me well, now was I?

Also, once again, mountains vs. molehills.

Hyperreality,

English isn't serving you well. You should learn Chinese.

Are you having a problem learning Chinese? You chose Cantonese? Wrong dialect. Should be learning Mandarin, that will solve your issue.

Vilian,

some people don’t know about FOSS alternatives, i dob’t think i need a PHD in computer science to idk try kdenlive intead of sony vegas

bou,
@bou@kbin.social avatar

@Hyperreality

"Suggesting people 'just' use FOSS is often unhelpful, because it assumes they have sufficient computer abilities and/or have the time to learn how."

I mean, it took my parents in law 10 minutes to learn and they're almost 80. Realistically, if you're using a computer, you have sufficient computer abilities and time to learn Linux.

Honytawk,

If they are almost 80, they have plenty of time on their hands.

Thank you for proving their point.

And no, it didn’t took them 10 minutes to learn a whole new OS, that is just dishonest.

Cylusthevirus,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

What an idiotic comparison.

.

…is incredibly reductive and combative. The world needs less of that, not more.

Be the change, homie.

In any case, do recall that many of us are in enterprise environments where we're not the only decision makers. Plus, FOSS without reliable support contracts isn't workable for many use cases. If something in FOSS goes tits up none of my customers will be satisfied with the great discussion I had with the devs about it and how they'll totally get to it after Furrycon.

You might not be paying for software in money but you're going to pay for it, one way or another.

ono, (edited )

Be the change, homie.

When someone claims two obviously different things are exactly the same, pointing out that the comparison is idiotic is not combative, homie.

Edit: More to the point, defending one’s community by pointing out the idiocy of an attack is not combative.

You might not be paying for software in money but you’re going to pay for it, one way or another.

Indeed. As I hinted in my comment, and stated more clearly in another one.

Cylusthevirus,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

Cool, I'ma go tell my wife something we disagree on is idiotic and we'll see how it goes. Should be fine, right? It's not combative!

ono,

Did your wife go on social media to pick a fight by stereotyping and publicly scolding a large community of people, and justify it with an obviously false claim? I hope not, but if so, then I wish you the best of luck working through that together.

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

The cost isn’t the software, it’s the time, energy and risk involved in using it.

The combativeness was deployed to fight off combativeness.

WeLoveCastingSpellz,

This is just wrong, people stay stuck with propertiary software either out of habit or not wanting to learn new things (Assuming there is alternatives ofc). People who rent often have no other option. People who use propertiary software have other options they just don’t care ebough to utilize them.

shnizmuffin,
@shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol avatar

Or they’re forced to by corporate. I can complain endlessly about Outlook but guess what? At the end of the day my ass has to use Outlook.

sour, (edited )
@sour@kbin.social avatar

school [._.]

Kir,
@Kir@feddit.it avatar

If buying an house was free, you can be sure I would definitely tell that to every fucking anyone.

  • All
  • Subscribed
  • Moderated
  • Favorites
  • •
  • random
  • uselessserver093
  • Food
  • aaaaaaacccccccce
  • [email protected]
  • test
  • CafeMeta
  • testmag
  • MUD
  • RhythmGameZone
  • RSS
  • dabs
  • Socialism
  • KbinCafe
  • TheResearchGuardian
  • oklahoma
  • feritale
  • SuperSentai
  • KamenRider
  • All magazines
    •