TC on open source evangelists

[email protected] - Oh my gosh I just figured it out.

Okay, all you open source evangelist people: your knee-jerk reaction to come at people who are talking about a problem with whatever commercial software they use and suggest Your Favorite Alternatives™ is exactly like saying “why don’t you just buy a house?” to someone complaining about their landlord.

[email protected] - Actually, to borrow from @DoubleA, it’s worse than that.

It’s like talking to someone who is in a crappy apartment as though they have the agency and skills to stake out a plot of land and build their own home.

You have to be at peace with the fact that some people just want to exist and not worry about so many things. And they still have a right to complain about their situation.

Link to thread: mas.to/

valaramech,
@valaramech@kbin.social avatar

In this thread, everyone getting caught up on the first toot and not the second where he clarifies his point.

If you step past the initial investment of buying a house, the analogy makes perfect sense. When you rent an apartment, your landlord (the provider) takes care of all the maintenance; you just live there and you get what you get. When you own a home, you take care of all of the maintenance, but you get to set the place up however you like. This isn't that different from a lot of FOSS out there.

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted,

In this thread, everyone getting caught up on the first toot and not the second where he clarifies his point.

To be fair, the second part is not included in the image.

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

Lemmy doesn’t allow for multiple images as far as I’m aware, so I did the next best thing: put it in the description

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted,

Not saying I blame you; you’re bound by the limitations/restrictions of the platform.

I’m just saying it’s not as obvious and so others may not have noticed it. :)

helenslunch,

So why didn’t he include the second part in the first post? Almost send like he WANTS people to misunderstand. I can’t understand why he’s even on fedi when all he ever does is try to stir the pot

Honytawk,

Doesn’t Mastodon have only 300 characters like old Twitter?

t3rmit3,

your landlord (the provider) takes care of all the maintenance

this is a dirty lie :P

Grrbrr,
@Grrbrr@sopuli.xyz avatar

Are you trying to gather a lynch mob here? I think posts like these are quite bad taste. Most wont have a good understanding of the situation.

Does this really fit this community?

EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted,

I agree. As inaccurate as Technology Connection’s statement is, this post here is kind of…distasteful.

YuzuDrink,
@YuzuDrink@beehaw.org avatar

Is there a community where a take like this would be considered and welcome? Asking because I would like to follow that community…

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

same tbh

morrowind,
@morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

I think it’s a discussion worth having, since it’s clearly a recurring problem.

inverted_deflector,

with all do respect, what discussion can we have here other than dunking on technology connections with an out of context post that misses the second post that clarifies what hes actually saying?

Kolanaki,
@Kolanaki@yiffit.net avatar

You could be tied to a specific piece of shit you don’t like because it’s what your job requires you to use.

I had to work with Salesforce and when I’d complain about it, Id be given all sorts of alternatives. These are nice but… The dude in charge of what the rest of us had to use liked Salesforce, so we all suffered.

drwho,
@drwho@beehaw.org avatar

Atlassian, too.

qyron,

“This program is really expensive and I keep having to buy a new computer every two years because it gets so slow.”

You’re being fucked with, when there are alternatives out there.

But that is none of my business.

Honytawk,

Alternatives aren’t always a solution.

qyron,

You can’t know until you try it.

Professionals are trained on already available answers, often target marketed, which moves forward the penetration of such answers into broad society.

This does not mean they are good or bad, just popular.

Any alternative solution will always be compared to the more popular, even if better.

Honytawk, (edited )

No you definitely can know.

Because if your company tells you you should use this software, you do not get a say in what software you use.

So it is either this, or nothing.

qyron,

Funny how we jumped from an implied personal use to an enterprise use all of a sudden.

To which the same basic rules apply. The added problem on enterprise is that you have legally binding contracts to force the company to stay with a bad software.

Dieinahole,

It really isn't though.

A day or two or even a week to get the hang of something isn't a 40-year mortgage

huginn,

Open cad just isn’t the same though

aesopjah,

yeah, freeCAD is kinda crappy compared to even F360

Honytawk,

Does Fusion 360 have a free version?

aesopjah,

meh, yes and no. typical auto desk shenanigans. free for personal use.

Honytawk,

So is it free free, or is it free* for personal use?

As in, can I as an amateur use it with all the functions enabled for an unlimited time without spending money?

Because I can with FreeCAD.

MangoPenguin,
@MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Yep

MrMamiya,

Poor people don’t have time above all else. A lot of times they are working 2 jobs, sometimes with those jobs doing shady scheduling where you are essentially on call without being paid for being on call.

Also tons of people just aren’t as smart as you are at computer things. Guess what? If they were you wouldn’t be as cool as you are for being able to do it.

I’ve found everyone has something they can teach me, whether it’s how to be or how not to be.

A great way to use your talent would be to assemble the resources that made you good at something and post it online so others can be lifted up by your knowledge.

Everyone in this entire world’s life is at minimum as complex and nuanced as your own. It’s kinda rough to assume laziness of people you don’t know well.

I’ve been up and down, and I ain’t better than anyone on here, I’m just trying to add a little of my perspective.

averyminya,

This is actually my argument for general consumer AI access. That person you’re describing already wouldn’t be able to pay an artist for a commission, but they can take 15 minutes to generate some images that make them happy. People deserve anything we can get that brings us joy in this time sensitive world.

Dieinahole,

Ahhh.... i suck at computers. Nowadays anyway.

But FOSS generally has the tech nerd I wish I was going over it, finding and squawking loudly about vulnerabilities, instead of quietly writing backdoors in.

No, it's not as stable and easy out of the box, but it's less likely to turn you into ICE because your name is half mexican

millie,

That’s goofy.

It’s like someone hearing someone complaining about a slum lord and pointing them to a company that gives out free parcels of land with free trailers on them. It’s not usually, like, a mansion, but it’ll do.

dallo,

You can pay each month or be free forever.

ono,

is exactly like saying “why don’t you just buy a house?” to someone complaining about their landlord.

What an idiotic comparison.

Buying a house costs so much money and time that most people cannot afford to, and those who can generally must go into debt for most of their remaining lives in order to do so. Suggesting FOSS to replace “whatever commercial software they use” is the polar opposite, in that it’s literally free (usually in both senses of the word). It’s more like suggesting that someone consider a new route to commute from home to work.

Also, this opening…

Okay, all you open source evangelist people: your knee-jerk reaction to come at people

…is incredibly reductive and combative. The world needs less of that, not more.

Hyperreality, (edited )

Buying a house costs so much money and time that most people .... Suggesting FOSS to replace “whatever commercial software they use” is the polar opposite, in that it’s literally free

Suggesting people 'just' buy a house is unhelpful, because it assumes they have enough money to do so.

Suggesting people 'just' use FOSS is often unhelpful, because it assumes they have sufficient computer abilities and/or have the time to learn how.

Some kid who's just started writing his thesis and enjoys fiddling with stuff? Sure, recommend LaTex.

Some overstretched parent of two, who gets home at 8 and just needs to edit a powerpoint for a presentation at the end of the week? No, suggesting they install a piece of software, something they've never done before, and learn to use this piece of software they've never used, to finish something that needs to be done by the end of the night, and that they're almost certainly going to be using in an office (ie. windows/office) environment? Not helpful.

ono, (edited )

The difference here is mountains vs. molehills.

And in most cases, they obviously do have sufficient ability to learn how, because they were able to learn the commercial software they’re currently using.

As for time, yes, learning always takes time. (Thus my comparison to learning a new commute.) But suggesting that someone learn something new is not stupid or unreasonable, especially if the thing they currently use is not serving them well.

  • In response to that paragraph you added after I replied:

I don’t know why you would think that cherry-picked and extremely specific scenario is somehow representative of the general subject we’re discussing. Of course situations exist where learning alternative software isn’t the best answer. That doesn’t make it wrong for people to suggest the alternatives. Quite often, they’re perfectly viable, and it’s perfectly reasonable to try to help by making someone aware of them.

Hyperreality,

You should just learn Chinese.

You have a sufficient ability to learn Chinese, you learnt how to speak the language you're currently using.

Learning takes time, but me suggesting you 'just' learn Chinese isn't stupid or unreasonable, especially as your inability to speak Chinese is limiting your audience and career opportunities, and not serving you well.

ono,

You should just learn Chinese.

That’s disingenuous. I wasn’t complaining about English not serving me well, now was I?

Also, once again, mountains vs. molehills.

Hyperreality,

English isn't serving you well. You should learn Chinese.

Are you having a problem learning Chinese? You chose Cantonese? Wrong dialect. Should be learning Mandarin, that will solve your issue.

Vilian,

some people don’t know about FOSS alternatives, i dob’t think i need a PHD in computer science to idk try kdenlive intead of sony vegas

bou,
@bou@kbin.social avatar

@Hyperreality

"Suggesting people 'just' use FOSS is often unhelpful, because it assumes they have sufficient computer abilities and/or have the time to learn how."

I mean, it took my parents in law 10 minutes to learn and they're almost 80. Realistically, if you're using a computer, you have sufficient computer abilities and time to learn Linux.

Honytawk,

If they are almost 80, they have plenty of time on their hands.

Thank you for proving their point.

And no, it didn’t took them 10 minutes to learn a whole new OS, that is just dishonest.

Cylusthevirus,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

What an idiotic comparison.

.

…is incredibly reductive and combative. The world needs less of that, not more.

Be the change, homie.

In any case, do recall that many of us are in enterprise environments where we're not the only decision makers. Plus, FOSS without reliable support contracts isn't workable for many use cases. If something in FOSS goes tits up none of my customers will be satisfied with the great discussion I had with the devs about it and how they'll totally get to it after Furrycon.

You might not be paying for software in money but you're going to pay for it, one way or another.

ono, (edited )

Be the change, homie.

When someone claims two obviously different things are exactly the same, pointing out that the comparison is idiotic is not combative, homie.

Edit: More to the point, defending one’s community by pointing out the idiocy of an attack is not combative.

You might not be paying for software in money but you’re going to pay for it, one way or another.

Indeed. As I hinted in my comment, and stated more clearly in another one.

Cylusthevirus,
@Cylusthevirus@kbin.social avatar

Cool, I'ma go tell my wife something we disagree on is idiotic and we'll see how it goes. Should be fine, right? It's not combative!

ono,

Did your wife go on social media to pick a fight by stereotyping and publicly scolding a large community of people, and justify it with an obviously false claim? I hope not, but if so, then I wish you the best of luck working through that together.

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

The cost isn’t the software, it’s the time, energy and risk involved in using it.

The combativeness was deployed to fight off combativeness.

ech,

Better comparison would’ve been something like “Annoyed with your landlord? Go build a cabin in the woods!”. Like, that’s straight-up appealing to some people, but it’s also not just something anyone and everyone can do.

OrnateLuna,

Even then that’s not that accurate, more like move to a different place. It’s inconvenient and might not have all the same things you wanted/liked from your old place but you can actually change things in the new place if you really want to

Hyperreality,

More like moving to France. For me it wouldn't be an issue. My french isn't bad and I learn languages quickly.

I assume that's not true of everyone, just like everyone isn't great at PC stuff.

Fermion,

Then you find out that while the new place doesn’t have the problems the old place had, it has a whole new set of problems.

Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t.

Honytawk,

It is the same reason why tons of airports still run on Windows XP.

They already have documented every single issue that could even happen and their solution. Having a new OS would mean new problems that won’t be solved in less than 5 minutes. Which at an airport could mean lives are at stake.

Luisp,

You are not buying a house, if the software is free it’s more like a expropriation

misk,
@misk@sopuli.xyz avatar

Guy wanted to vent about smart thermostats, explicitly said he doesn’t need advice and got bajillion responses with advice, mostly from FOSS folks who couldn’t contain themselves. I’d be annoyed too.

sexy_peach,
@sexy_peach@feddit.de avatar

That’s the biggest annoyance with mastodon

skullgiver, (edited )
@skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl avatar

deleted_by_author

    •
    sexy_peach,
    @sexy_peach@feddit.de avatar

    Oh yeah I think that generally mastodon is far nicer

    Templa,

    It was for me too because I wasn’t following anyone. As soon as I started following people that had strong opinions about technology and politics, well…

    maegul,
    @maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

    It doesn’t help that Mastodon has very little design considerations for dealing with popular accounts, treating every account as if you’re only following your friends and family. (Emphasis mine)

    Came to the same realisation myself. The whole “just friends having lunch together” vibe that mastodon aims for simply breaks down at a certain scale, which means is essentially unsuitable as a Twitter replacement for all that looking for that.

    The lack of any feed/notifications management then means that you get subjected to all the annoying randos as though they are your friends or neighbours.

    Which, coupled with a culture of purism and gatekeeping and HOA-ing leads to what can be a genuinely toxic culture. Not for everyone all the time but enough of the time for some to have found it awful and left.

    But not enough talk about this. It’s designed as a suburban social media where you chat to friends and neighbours. Push it beyond that and you’ll have problems.

    shreddy_scientist,
    @shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml avatar

    When I say “don’t think of a panda”, what do you think of? Pretty much the same thing with saying “don’t recommend me FOSS options” lol

    Pizzasgood,
    @Pizzasgood@kbin.social avatar

    No. Thinking about the panda is involuntary in that scenario. Typing up and submitting an explicitly unwanted response is not involuntary. It's a thing a person chooses to do expressly against the wishes of the person making the request.

    shreddy_scientist,
    @shreddy_scientist@lemmy.ml avatar

    Ya, implying recommending FOSS options is an involuntary action was tongue-in-cheek.

    derbis,

    I’m on lemmy. Obviously, I think about Marxism-Leninism.

    jarfil,

    Not Motorhead?

    charlies-names.com/en/lemmy/

    nickname of Motörhead’s singer Ian Fraser Kilmister. The name originated from his often said sentence “can you lem’me five?” or “lemme a fiver?”

    somegeek,

    That makes no sense. I think he should use home assistant for his home automation.

    virtueisdead,

    It looks like what they were trying to convey is apparently that it can be a large time and effort commitment that most people don’t have the technical expertise to figure out, which is a fairly reasonable argument in some contexts, but I do not think they conveyed it very well and they’re being kind of a dick about it in the replies, so idk. I understand the point, but this is NOT the way to get it across.

    Templa,

    Very convenient that you left out a lot of context, but I’m an open source enthusiast and he’s not wrong.

    drwankingstein,

    this is a really dumb take lmao

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