You think ‘oh it’s not that hard to just pick a sever’, but it is. Most people look at it and go 'well my favorite influencer or friend is on X, but I can only make an account on Y. Can I still communicate with them?! Which advantage has sever Y over server Z? etc. It’s it’s ONE barrier which is one barrier too much for many people (on top of all the new things they have to learn anyway when they decide to get on a new social network)
Most people don’t know the ins and outs of how these federated systems work, like you do - and it’s scary to them to be confronted with a question about system architecture, when all they want to do is read news or memes.
And it’s interesting that you mention email, because I’d argue email has the exact same problem. Depending on which country you live in, you’ll notice that most people use primarily one email provider per region/country. Why? because their friends use the same email provider. You know how many people told me “well, I don’t have email, but I can give you my Gmail if you want…?” Email just ‘took off’ because it had nothing to compete with for 20 years and businesses depended on it as well.
Most people don’t know the ins and outs of how these federated systems work, like you do
I don’t think you at all need to understand federation other than it means you can join from multiple places and that typically they mostly all talk so just pick a medium to popular one.
I still don’t really understand exactly how federation works and I don’t think it hinders me at all to not understand it.
Sarcasm aside, you’re not wrong. The top result for “Lemmy” (that isn’t about Motörhead) is for Join-Lemmy.org. I’m a tech-minded person, but when I saw this “join a server” crap instead of a front page, I decided that I’m too old and that it’s too much effort to figure out. Now imagine someone who isn’t tech-minded wants to join. They’ll fuck off even sooner than I did.
Hell, the only reason why I’m here is because I decided that Imgur isn’t a good alternative. They’re no better than reddit (i.e. no 3rd party apps). So I decided to stop being lazy and figure it the fuck out. Others might not be as motivated.
Are you referring to Jack Dorsey? He’s not the owner, he just gave them grant money in the beginning. It’s a non-profit so technically no individual “owns” it.
“Prior to the seed round, Bluesky’s website described the company as a Public Benefit LLC owned by Graber and other Bluesky employees.[33] Post-seed round, the company describes itself as a public-benefit C Corp.”
and theres your problem, looking at instances, its not a normal thing you need to do or ever had to do on any other similar website reddit would have never taken off if it where instanced like lemmy for example
Forgive my ramblings, but here’s the main differences I see, from a community perspective:
Bluesky’s for people who loved twitter circa 2015
Mastodon’s for people who loved the format but hated the way the platform made use of it. The community is FOSS-focused and anti-corporate.
Bluesky folks are anti-corporate, but they still want their social media to be on a single platform and tend to dislike federation
Mastodon folks tend to be in smaller circles and more tech enthused
Features-wise, Mastodon kills the algorithm in favour of chronological timelines and lists, while Bluesky embraces algorithms, allowing people to even make their own algorithms for the platform. Bluesky’s AT Proto uses “DIDs” to identify users, which are associated directly with a domain^[or subdomain]. This means that when federation does eventually happen, usernames will just be @my.domain.com instead of ActivityPub’s @actor.
Federation’s still not enabled so I have no clue how things will look and feel on that front, nor am I familiar enough with the protocol to make any claim about how versatile it is. ActivityPub is flexible enough to be a Twitter clone, a reddit clone, a blogging platform, a youtube clone, a twitch clone, a goodreads clone, or several other formats. AT Proto’s currently only proven to work for a Twitter clone.
Oh ya, no, 100%. The company is still a for-profit corporation that needs to make ends meet come the 31st. The userbase is what I’m talking about there, and specifically their unprincipled stance wrt corporate control, in paying lip-service to hating corpos, yet wanting everything to be structured around a centralized entity and team who makes it easy to blame someone (1) for anything that goes wrong.
They have the main thing masses often look for: unity (as in the state of being united, not the company). Like it or not, federation is a brand new concept that regular users can’t wrap their heads around.
I can guarantee you regular users don’t ever think of email as a federated service nor even begin to understand how it works behind the opaque client page.
See my other reply. Regular users don’t understand, nor care, nor even think about it. To the mainstream, of everything you’ve listed, only email is a common concept, and even then you have some major congregation with very few providers. It doesn’t matter that your bubble is used to it, because it represents a risible percentage of the mainstream.
You have a point. I actually don’t want mainstream people in here. Because they suck so much as the youtube comments used to show before it implemented upvotes.
People are happy to peddle incorrect information which is easy to find. Dorsey is on the board, but deleted his account and used Nostr and Twitter significantly more than he ever did bluesky. Cultural debt: Mastodon has the cultural debt of reply guys, FOSS bros, racism etc During the great migration a lot of minorities attempted the switch and were met with a lot of racism which was easy to hide due to PM. Mastodon also has the onboarding issues. Studies show most users are passive users of social media, they don’t want much friction just to lurk. Bluesky appealed to minorities particularly Black women very early in the process and that contributed to the growth and culture. They’ve lost some of the goodwill due to some moderation issues. But, without the cultural debt and without making decisions such as no full-text search (since changed) and no QTs, two features that benefits minorities and professionals alike turned off many. There’s also no current federation so the onboarding is simple and smooth. The culture on Mastodon based on 4 polls I’ve seen with 10k plus responses, Mastodon leans older than bluesky. Unlike what’s put out there bluesky doesn’t aim to be a Twitter replacement but more so Mastodon+. Lastly, the culture on Mastodon often takes itself too seriously while bluesky is mostly horny, crapposting, awareness raising and lots of laughs
If you go on Bluesky they will tell you. Lots of people saying that they feel isolated because there is no algorithm feeding engagement, and federation doesn’t lend itself to finding your friends from Twitter easily without one of those migration tools people were using. Then another chunk describe Mastodon users as a “HOA” because someone told them to put a CW on something.
Home Owners Association (group that implements rules for homeowners in a neighborhood like what colour you can paint your house or what you can plant in the garden), and Content Warning
Bluesky is to Mastodon & ActivityPub, what Matrix is to XMPP/IRC… a completely over-engineered system, ignoring all well established international standards and run by a for-profit entity with venture capital funding.
Matrix is literally the best decentralized real time chat we have. I don’t think you understand how the Matrix protocol at works, and I assume you are blindly repeating what you read online that XMPP must be better because it supposedly has less lines of code, though I’m sure you didn’t check that either.
That’s awesome, and I still know that you don’t know what you’re talking about. But damn you made me a soyjack, that definitely tells me you’ve actually looked into the technical differences.
I don’t give a shit about the “protocol”. I give a shit about the end experience: the system, not a single component of it. (The fact that you’re so narrowly defining the range of critique is very telling and noted, incidentally.)
I’ve given Matrix three tries now. Three times Element has shit its pants, lost all my keys, refused to recognize the backups I made using its own tools, and made me start over from scratch. It’s a fucking shit system, no matter how good or bad its “protocol” is.
Come back when you’ve got a product that doesn’t suck so hard it can suck bowling balls through garden hoses. (Well, no, don’t come back. Matrix is on the permanent shitpile for me along with Emacs, Haskell, Internet Explorer and other such software fiascos of epic proportions.) But start pitching the product when you’ve got a product that isn’t a festering pustule that periodically pops and spreads its grotesque fluids all over the place, not now when it’s like a rusty chainsaw made without a kickback guard.
One of the first things that you’d need to do to make the system not suck matter out of galactic core black holes is to look over the “Fallacies of Distributed Computing” and make sure that you didn’t interpret it as an instruction manual instead of a warning against them.
It’s not narrowly defined lol, you literally said Matrix so I asked about Matrix. XMPP is a protocol, so obviously I’m going to ask why you prefer one protocol over the other. It’s like saying you hate the http protocol, but really you’re actually talking about a specific browser, it makes no sense.
I think emulating twitter was a huge mistake for mastadon, the twitter reply structure that makes it difficult to have a long conversation with multiple people to be the main part of the post but ideal for “dunks” and outrage farming. I think the Tumblr reblog structure would have been an infinitly better choice for the more actual socialising thing fediverse is going for and a small user base that isnt producing much content and can re-circulate older posts. also it’s less image-centric allowing more posts to be stored on a server, additionally (intuitively, I haven’t thought about implementation that hard) it seems like a much more natural fit for federation.
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