[AskEurope] Fellow Europeans, what is the aspect of USA lifestyle that surprises you the most?
First of all, let’s try to avoid American-bashing, and stay respectful to everyone.
I’ll start: for me it’s the tipping culture. Especially nowadays, with the recent post on !mildlyinfuriating with the 40% tip, it just seems so weird to me to have to pay extra just so that menu prices can stay low.
I went recently to the USA for the first time and the thing that put me off was the tips you need to pay.
Having the employee paid on customers whim felt wrong, but also probably dictates how kind they may be compared to waiters in France I guess. Also, the price, considering the tip, felt very expensive when I was always told that France was expensive because of all the taxes and charges companies have to pay for our social benefits. I guess the high price is because the plates are very generous in size.
Also I felt like it was the closest society from anarchy somehow and it felt weird
There is so much that screams “stress” to me when I think of living in the US that makes me uncomfortable. To just mention that your job can fire you at will and your health care might be attached to your job, or that a person who can not drive a car for health reasons, like me, is basically fucked. Or no sick days and a very low amount of vacation days that you might have to take when you are sick and on top taking them at all is looked down on, while my boss reminds me to tell him when I prefer to take my vacation days, because by law I have to take them.
I could make a very long list of things that come with American life that I find stressful. Just one more tiny thing: I do not have much money, so I have to be careful not to overspent. In Germany the prices on the shelf in the grocery store are the total I will have to pay. In the US the total can be whatever, you just have to be really good at doing math in your head, have enough money to not care or walk around with a calculator. So it is not just the big things that add onto each other. If I am sick I can walk to the nearest grocery store and drug store in less than 3 minutes from my flat, the doctor’s office is inbetween both and the visit is free and medication either free or costs 5 Euro each for what I usually need. My gall bladder surgery was all in all 100 Euro, including ambulance transport on a Sunday because it was an emergency and aftercare with my doctor. My days in the hospital and at home afterwards were fully paid by my employer.
I wonder what America would look like if everyone would live on an European stress level. We do not have no stress of course, but the base line for many Europeans is way lower. On top there is a base line of feeling safer (less shooting, except for Ukraine of course) and more social secure.
It surprises me that despite all that, Americans do rarely complain and are as happy as they are. I admire them for that, but also wish they could have less stress in their lifes.
There are some rich areas, but even there, the vast majority of people are poor and live under not-great conditions.
I think the “pursuit of happiness” mindset is still very strong over there. You’re only poor because of yourself, not because rich people fucked you over. So you can’t really complain, because it’s your fault.
As someone who spent roughly half my life in the US and the other half in EU, this is very accurate as to my experience in each place. In the US my life constantly felt balanced on a knife edge like everything could fall apart at any moment. When I moved to the EU, even though I didn’t speak the language or grow up there, I breathed a big sigh of relief. I felt like my life was finally manageable.
I think this causes a ton of mental illness in the US that we just don’t see in the EU. Most people I know in the US are on the constant verge of a breakdown and basically just disassociating themselves from reality (usually using drugs, alcohol, religion, or some combination thereof). I think this is why Americans so badly need to put on a happy face. If they didn’t, they’d all have a simultaneous mental breakdown.
Lifelong American here - I do love it here, though as you point out there are definitely some stressful flaws.
Healthcare here is messed up. Not the quality (which is typically very high), but the price. Having insurance tied to employment never made sense to me either.
Personally, I actually love driving and owning a car. I just think cars are really cool and I like wrenching on them. Everything I could need is within a 10-15 minute drive and I never have to worry about there not being enough parking. That said, you are correct that car ownership is basically required - although I have been to cities in the US that have decent public transportation. Not European level good, but decent.
At my job I get 4 weeks paid vacation and “unlimited” sick days (they say unlimited but of course they have the ability to deny them if they find you are abusing them). My bosses will actually hunt people down who HAVENT used all their vacation days and encourage them to do so. They have realized that productivity is tied to employee happiness so they try to keep us happy. Now, none of that is government mandated but I just mention it to prove that not everyone here has a job that treats them like crap. I agree that this stuff should be guaranteed though. For reference, I work in IT and make less than 100k.
Tipping is definitely a weird thing and I would be glad to never have to think about it again.
Don’t get me wrong, the tipping system (among numerous other aspects) is a joke for customers, But it has massive benefits if you end up in the right job, in the right restaurant.
Absolutely no idea how many end up in the same situation, maybe the minority, but all the servers I met travelling (especially girls) would make many times more than anyone working the same job in Europe for less hours.
Plus, we have tipping in most European cities I’ve visited… Most waiters I know are on minimum wage and only survive via tips. Is it different for you?
I’ve started giving 1 star review for anyplace that asks for tip for preorder before I’ve even received anything or for drive thru. Please join me… They use shame and guilt as a weapon. We can also.
This doesn’t take into account the amount of suburbia in the US though. European cities are way more dense. If you’re in a neighborhood out in the suburbs the only option is really to drive.
Even in small cities you are kinda dependent on a car but you are able to drive to the closest train station and use the train to get to the next bigger city. In North Carolina (USA) I made the experience that the train is often not an option to get to the next bigger city or so expensive it is not worth it on a travel budget.
Europe is bigger than the US, but how often do you travel all across? The radius of movement might be a bit bigger in the US, due to bad design (urban sprawl). That’s a choice. You can plan cities better if you want to.
I don’t go from Sicily to Finland every week (but if i wanted to, I could easily do so by train). The size doesn’t matter in my daily life.
I read a travel guide to another European city I was visiting, and the guide was aimed at Americans. It’s a major really walkable city, with car access as good as nonexistent (wonderful). It surprised me, that some Americans walk so little, that the first advice in the guide was “start by trying to walk around your house”
boggles my mind. buuuut europe is on a great way to fail there too. I think the swedish fully privatized school system is an utter failure…but it will take time to come to full effect. sweden is doomed.
That there are long stretches of road where you can’t get somewhat healthy food. I have been on a road trip across Utah, Nevada, Colorado and Arizona, and outside the big citys you only get junk food at petrol stations, but no fruits, no vegetables. I guess it makes sense because salad or fresh food spoils quick and is expensive to deliver to each and every petrol station, especially if they don’t have a reliable power supply in the middle of nowhere. Never thought about it before. In Germany you can get ice cream, chocolate, cake, salad or a full meal (at gas station prices, and lower quality) on the Autobahn.
I’ll start: for me it’s the tipping culture. Especially nowadays, with the recent post on !mildlyinfuriating with the 40% tip, it just seems so weird to me to have to pay extra just so that menu prices can stay low.
The silver lining is it isn’t forced, unlike all other forms of price gouging. I tip 15% and that isn’t changing.
Many years ago, I was chatting with a friend from California and she told me her family votes Republican. As in, by default. No matter the policies or political needs of the country.
Aside from the US parties being very similar back then (pre-Trump), I’ve also learned since then that this may have to do with party affiliation programs.
In the US, you need to register to vote and the parties basically offer to do the registration for you, if you promise to vote for them. So, you end up being ‘affiliated’ with them, even without being actively a member.
I’m not sure voting by default to one party is a consequence of registering with that party. Maybe some psychological effect.
I’d say the main cause is the fact there are only two parties to choose from, so unless you are a moderate (or these days right-moderate) it is just a waste of time looking at candidates and their policies beyond party affiliation.
The related issue is this: in some places in america, the primaries are run by the parties. So you can only vote for canidates (within a party) in the primaries IF you register with that party. In some races the primaries are the important part, because everyone knows which party will win the main election, so who gets the party nomination is basically the undecided part.
I recently found out that the suburbs in the US have NOTHING other than single family homes.
No small grocery store, no hair salon, no post office, no pub, no tiny kebab place around the corner, nothing. There are areas where you have to drive 30 minutes just to buy bread.
Now I understand why 15-minute cities are such a buzz among Americans.
That's a bit exaggerated. "Corner" stores of any kind are rare in suburbs as they are zoned for residential use only. However, there are often small areas zoned commercial scattered around where a small number of shops are located. I'm pretty sure land use planning requires these things to avoid exactly what you were describing.
I've never been more than 10 minutes from groceries or gas in the suburbs. Now rural life, that can mean some planning if you need anything at all. And if you want to do anything remotely interesting you're almost always going to be traveling some distance. And with very few exceptions cars are practically mandatory.
And with very few exceptions cars are practically mandatory.
Edit: times based on car travel, not walking.
That’s the crazy thing to Europeans. Pretty much everywhere you can walk 10 to 15 minutes or drive a few minutes by bike to get to a grocery store or restaurant. From the smallest town to the big cities.
I drive < 10 minutes to everything I need on a daily basis.
Driving is the important thing here. In Europe in most places you don’t need to car to reach basic necessities in a reasonable time. Over here we can walk or drive by bike and have everything basic we need within a 10 to 15 minute range.
I’m glad that one didn’t stick too much. Covid and all that stuff I still see a lot, but decrying 15 minute cities as a bad thing is really too much mental acrobatics.
It’s straight up propaganda and ignorance. They think 15 minute cities are gonna be some sort of commie block that you’re not gonna be allowed to leave unless it’s under surveillance. Nevermind that it’s actually a design choice so you have all the necessities at a more convenient reach if you choose to use them but other than that you can still go wherever you want.
No stores, markets, and services also translates to a low availability of jobs.
As a high schooler, you almost inevitably need some kind of “boost” to get out on your own. Maybe college, but at least a car or help signing for an apartment. Without at least some kind of help, it’s easy to get literally “stuck” at age 18 or 19. No money for a car or apartment, but no close access to employment without one of those tools.
I see parents moving to the suburbs to give a safe life for their kids away from “bad things” in the city. Meanwhile, parents may not be home until 6 or 7 pm due to leaving the city in traffic, and bored suburban teens can get into just as much trouble as their urban counterparts. Unless the parents are also able to commit some serious money to other involvement for their teenagers, the suburban life may not play out well for them.
Something that really struck me, particularly in Northern Europe, was that the young adults seemed to be a lot more self assured. There are probably a lot of reasons for this that I do not notice, but I wonder how much results from having a practical path to an independent and productive life. This in turn opens up so many other doors socially.
I find this to be highly regional. Plenty of places will ignore that you exist beyond the payment. A minority of places perhaps, but the hospitality isn't universal.
This is obviously not a hilot take, but i don't understand how people get that fat. The most common argument is that fast food is that much cheaper, which i just don't believe, sorry. A quick google search tells me that a big Mac is around 5.50, and that is not a meal, that is some garbage snack. You can cook a vetter an healthier meal for whatever you spend at a fastfood chain that lasts you longer than one meal. Combine that with drinking water instead of the soda you drink there you might actually live healthy. I also read a lot that it's jot their fault that even bread has a ton of sugar, which is disgustig, but also bread is like 3 to 5 ingredients to make your self.
When i browse tinder and run out of people, women from Thailand and america start to show up, and this is no joke or to shit on people or whatever, but 80% of the women there are fatter than the fattest people i have ever met irl.
Its a problem for sure. A large portion of the obese tend to be poor people who are working 40-80hours a week with half and hour to 2 hours commute every day who possibly have kids to take care of and may or may not be a single parent household, fast food isn't the cheapest option, but its the cheapest option they have time or the energy for. Also, since most fat food (and most other processed or prepared food sources) know how addictive high calorie and high salt foods can be they will happily take advantage of under educated and over stressed people by cramming as much as they can afford into their food. That of course doesn't apply to everyone and plenty of people who have no excuse are still fat but that applies to a rather large chunk of the overweight people. That also exposes a whole bunch of other issues that need to be addressed as well.
Its a problem for sure. A large portion of the obese tend to be poor people who are working 40-80hours a week with half and hour to 2 hours commute every day who possibly have kids to take care of and may or may not be a single parent household, fast food isn't the cheapest option, but its the cheapest option they have time or the energy for. Also, since most fat food (and most other processed or prepared food sources) know how addictive high calorie and high salt foods can be they will happily take advantage of under educated and over stressed people by cramming as much as they can afford into their food. That of course doesn't apply to everyone and plenty of people who have no excuse are still fat but that applies to a rather large chunk of the overweight people. That also exposes a whole bunch of other issues that need to be addressed as well.
Have you spent time in rural or poor areas or the US? Try eating the local food. It’s not good. As an american who moved abroad, I can say american food is just shockingly low quality. High fat and/or high sugar, lots of highly processed food. Very common attitude that “I have never and will never like vegetables”. I mean I’d expect some people live off a diet like sugary cereal, soda, milk, wonder bread, mac and cheese, mayo, ground beef, eggs, candy, fries, pizza, etc. Keep in mind the most common vegetable that americans eat is the potato.
That being said, it is absolutely not the individuals fault for being obese. I’m convinced there are effects that are hormonal, chemical polutants, or epigenetics that push the population to being fatter. The lack of education, and knowledge of how people live in other parts of the world does not help either.
Making bread by yourself is tedious, and you need a big enough kitchen to do it comfortably.
I’ve found meals in US restaurants very big, and the food and drinks either very fat or very sweat, much more than in France. I’d be overweight in the US with only 2 meals per day and I don’t even talk about desserts.
You may not realise it but cooking by yourself require many privileges: you need education, you need a large kitchen with all the tools and ovens, and you need time. Also, you can easily cook unhealthy food, which means you also need good eating habits, which you learn while a child or with a lot of pain and efforts.
When I read about people being frugal, there’s always something like “I now go to restaurants only once a week”, “I’m driving the same car for 5 years”, “you don’t really need 10 subscriptions for x”. Do people really not cook their own food and spend money that much? My only subscriptions are internet and rent, and my savings would be gone if I’d get a car 🤷♂️
Are these by posts by newspapers, blogs, or normal people? Because all the people writing for newspapers and financial blogs seem to live in a different world than most Americans. The average car in the US is 12 years old for example.
You also wouldn’t spend hours commuting to work every day. Cars are fast. I don’t know how it is in Europe, but in America, commute time is unpaid and cost of living is obscenely high, so cars are pretty much mandatory if you want to keep a roof over your head and get a full 8 hours of sleep.
Here, cars are not fast. Cities are congested. When I worked on the other side of my small town, getting there by bike or by car cost the same amount of time. In bigger cities there is public transport.
We generally also don’t live hours away from where we work. I got rejected for a jobs because they didn’t believe I’d commute for an hour by car while looking for a new place
Dignified living is a suburban house with ample open floor space, a yard for the kids and pets to play in, and no HOA or building manager threatening you with homelessness and catastrophic debt unless you bow to his every whim.
That’s how I grew up, it was a hell of a lot nicer and less scary than the apartment I’m living in now, and housing costs have stolen that life from me. Now you’re telling me I should be happy with what my life has been reduced to? No, I am not happy about it. I am angry.
In Germany HOAs aren’t a thing and by law you have quite good tenant rights. for example once you have an open ended rental contract, your landlord can’t really throw you out on their whim.
Around here, they may not be able to arbitrarily throw me out, but they can decline to offer a new fixed-term lease when the current one expires, and rent automatically doubles if a fixed-term lease is not signed. Is that not a thing in Germany?
It implicitly changes to an open-ended one here too, but again, at double the rent. It’s obviously meant to coerce tenants into continuing to sign fixed-term leases and agreeing to whatever new terms the landlord feels like imposing.
I envy you, that you actually have substantial protection under the law from malicious landlords.
There are just 4 or 5 legal reasons for a fixed term contract which have to be specified, and after a few (2 or 3) renewals (or the landlord lying about the reason), the contract becomes open end automatically.
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