You can argue with a pigeon, you can tell it you are right and it is wrong, you can use logical arguments and sound evidence, but you won't change its mind and at the end of the day you'll still end up with shit in your hair.
There’s a quote variously attributed to a bunch of people that’s along the lines of “you can’t reason someone out of a corner they didn’t reason themselves into” — not to say your friends didn’t necessarily come by a faulty logic to get themselves there; rather that there’s some innate values that were interpellated by the rhetoric of the so-called redpill, and you’re unfortunately seeing an aspect of them that was always there but perhaps in different forms. It’s not worth your time to argue with them, and sadly, may not be worth your time to be in that environment either.
I’m starting to think that the correct way to address these types of things is with a simple, possibly even loving, “that’s the dumbest thing I’ve heard”.
A lot of poorly reasoned opinions and ideas come from socially validated sources, they parrot the opinions of people they identify with. Showing that you won’t agree to get along, might work as a counter both to their spewing the shit as well as maybe letting them question why they hold that belief.
Might also make them stop coming to you with these types of opinions, which may or may not be what you want.
Works quite well in person unless the person is literally beyond logic and saving
It’s really hard for people to completely deny close friends with hard evidence in person (usually saying your line results in them asking why and then you can search stuff up on your phone or something), much easier with the distance of social media
The Wachowskis, who directed the Matrix and transitioned, have admitted that the Matrix is actually in large part a trans allegory. Apparently one the pills used to transition was literally a red pill.
Which is why, if I remember correctly, when at one point Ivanka Trump and Elon Musk tweeted about taking the red pill, one of the Wachowskis replied that they should go fuck themselves.
The Matrix is a 'trans metaphor', Lilly Wachowski says ... The Matrix first hit screens in 1999, when Lilly says "the corporate world wasn't ready" for an allegory - a story that can be interpreted to reveal a hidden meaning - about transgender people.
“I’m the best, I’m gonna be the best at everything, fuck feminists, worship millionaires because they are rich” That sort of stuff. The funny thing is that 90% of people who think like that don’t even know what the word feminist actually means…
Somebody has recommended you street epistemology already. An important part of it is to talk using the same concepts.
I say this because my understanding of the red pill comes from the documentary The Red Pill. It roughly means that you are aware of the issues men face in modern societies and care about them. That caring about men’s rights does not mean that you hate women.
And because of that I initially thought that trying to convince someone that “red pill mentality is stupid” was the stupid thing.
You can’t reason someone out of a position that they didn’t reason themselves into.
Fascists and other Frauds tell the Little Man that he is a loser; that he is being ripped off by the Bad People; that his whole class or gender or race are being taken advantage of by their inferiors. They play to the Little Man’s anxieties, making him feel littler and more stepped-upon.
This is all a lead-in to telling the Little Man to sign up for the Big Lie.
It’s a waste of time. These types of people are as thick as mince, you’re not gonna change their mind because they have zero interest or incentive to do so. It’s a fucking cult of morons.
You are not wrong, but you stop short. These types are also very weak emotionally. As Adam Kinzinger said, MAGAs are too terrified to leave the tribe. They believe the lies because their tribe tells them to.
I’ve always had a bone to pick with that expression.
What experience? If it’s an old fart with outdated views, yeah maybe they can keep complaining about shit that doesn’t matter anymore, but dumbshit people my age or younger? What experience?
It works better in context, the quote is "don't argue with idiots: they'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience." I've always taken that as "experience at being an idiot". The "yeah, well, muh wisdom/experience" copout is unrelated.
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