Do you think Lemmy is hurt by having too many dead/low-PPM communities?

Title is a bit of a loaded question but I tried to fit it into one sentence.

Do you think Lemmy’s search and use functions are hurt by all the communities that were made and abandoned during the 2023 Redditfugee influx? As in, do you think that Lemmy would be better off if some of these communities were consolidated into larger general pages until it gets a big enough user base to warrant individual communities for specific TV shows, for example.

Krauerking,

Yes.

rosymind,

I love the simplicity and directness of this answer

HollandJim, (edited )

We could use some consolidation - if anything, it’s not general enough in some areas, and others are so tightly defined it’s a circle-jerk.

Edit: had a rethink - I mean it’s all very flat. I wouldn’t mind a small hierarchy to find the topic, and more granularity in subgroups.

RonnieB,

Yeah I’m pretty tired of manually blocking all the fucking furry porn

MaxVoltage,

i love it tho 😩 the new generation of linux users is sooooooo suk

Tattorack,
@Tattorack@lemmy.world avatar

This now the third time I’m seeing someone complain about furry porn on Lemmy and I’m just wondering… Where!?

All I ever see is politics politics politics politics tech billionaire farted politics politics politics Elon Musk politics politics.

Noodle07,

You forgot about sport

jubilationtcornpone,

You forgot memes and shitposting.

Valkyronix,

how many subs are showing up in your feed lmao

RonnieB,

Some from my blocked list:

Female Yiff

The yiff community of smeargle fans

gay furry porn

furry femboys

yiff_irl

trans yiff

Enjoy!

fishos,
@fishos@lemmy.world avatar

They pop up in the /all equivalent if you don’t have NSFW communities turned off in your settings. I can only find the proper setting on desktop version tho, not mobile. So if you’ve never checked your account settings on desktop, you’re actually seeing a shitton of furry and anime porn.

Source: I found the setting and turned it off on my PC wondering what I was not seeing. Couldn’t fix it on my phone no matter what I tried. Went back to PC and switched it back and all the porn vanished again. Uncensored Lemmy is thirsty af

Valkyronix,

ah. i turned on the nsfw content when i made an account because im horny on main and like having that in my feed.

RBWells,

Kind of. The squatters with no activity in the communities are annoying. The small niche ones that are just slow seem normal, not everything needs to be popular and busy.

bullshitter,

Doom scrolling on lemmy is better than reddit

Alborlin,

The biggest problem with Lemmy Community is “Linux is not for newbies and it does not work as smithy as windows” Sentence will give you negative Karma in hundreds. The community is smug about using Linux Anywhere on Lemmy.

krow,
@krow@lemmy.world avatar

idk this sounds more like a personal issue

gamermanh,

As a windows main:

Linux absolutely has distro that will work just fine for most basic computer users right out of the box. Mint passed the wife test AND the Mom test (and my mother is in her late 50s and doesn’t use computers normally).

So you’re likely getting downvoted because you’re just wrong.

A better point might be “most people just don’t care enough to learn the different workflow”, which is also why people tend not to swap between phone OS either

Alborlin,

I have no problem changing be it windows or Linux, but things don’t work in Linux, I will give you example, when closing the lid don’t suspend the power is easy to find and setup in windows. They to do that in one of the friendliest Linux i.e. ZORIN OS and tell me your mother can do it.

Or try to play and video saved from iphone with live images ,(hevc format i think )and see what error Linux throws and see if you can at least know what is needed , which windows tell you in face.

MargotRobbie,

Lemmy doesn’t have Karma, it’s not visible on the webUI currently and will be completely removed in the next version.

droning_in_my_ears,

To put it another way the community isn’t very diverse. For example it’s got way more Linux enthusiasts than the general population.

intensely_human,

I don’t think it causes any problems

Rotten_potato,

Yes, I think so but only indirectly. Distinguishing between the “same” community on different instances or rather identifying the more active one is already pretty hard, the only thing one can really go by is the number of users who have joined. The large number of abandoned copycat communities on 3+ servers doesn’t make this easier since a lot of these have a bunch of users but are dead.

A technical solution could be some kind of “hotness” score for instances to identify the interesting/active ones.

LesserAbe,

Not any more than reddit is hurt by dead subreddits. I don’t see it as a big problem. But I think discovery is a bigger issue - finding new communities.

Aux,

Reddit doesn’t have dead clones. Lemmy is full of them.

LesserAbe,

Clones or subreddits? There are dead subreddits.

Aux,

We’re talking about dead clones here, which pollute Lemmy.

wildginger,

Reddit absolutely has clone subs that die and chew up names

Pratai,

You can’t have two subs with the same name on Reddit.

Blaze,
@Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

Userbase is sufficient for generic topics, not specific ones (there are exceptions)

!moviesandtv is quite active, !dundermifflin not so much

qdJzXuisAndVQb2,

But people insist on creating incredibly specific niche communities, I’m certain because they want to establish their own fiefdoms when this “blows up”.

PP_BOY_,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

I agree. I think a lot of people heard that Lemmy was “just like reddit” back when SHTF on the other site and rushed over here to claim their stake instead of letting the community develop those pages organically. How many boards are on here that were made to be just 1:1 clones of popular subreddits? How many users created repost bots and never actually bothered to fill their communities with original content?

glimse,

Pretty much all the copycat communities suck ass. They don’t have any of the charm of the originals and are all just poorly-moderated, homogenous crap

PP_BOY_,
@PP_BOY_@lemmy.world avatar

Copycats of Reddit communities or copies of other Lemmy communities on different instances?

glimse,

Communities that took the names of subreddits while only loosely staying on theme

PrinceWith999Enemies, (edited )

I think there’s a problem it introduces for users, particularly casual users (which I think we could use a lot more of).

The first problem is discovery. Discovery isn’t something that can be solved server side afaik without adding a unifying layer to act as an indexer, which is kind of feasible but not really in the federated spirit and would need client integration in any case. Discovery could be made better on the client side, but every client I’ve tried so far has no idea how to do results ranking. I’ll search for “politics” and the top result will be from a topic on an instance with zero posts and two subscribers. Some allow users to specify a sort order but miss results present on other clients, and the sort orders are pretty primitive and only allow you to choose one. I’m also honestly unsure how mainstream search engine indexing is supposed to work (eg “Toyota repair reddit”).

The second is content repetition. People (and bots) will frequently post the exact same content to multiple communities and multiple instances. This problem is exacerbated by the lower content rate, which leaves people browsing /all in case someone posted something interesting somewhere. Again, maybe this is something you could do client side with some off the shelf recommendation engine, and I think a great feature would be to have the ability for users to consolidate feeds into a single feed, and even posts (on identical articles, for example) into a single displayed post, such that the conversation could cross multiple instances transparently.

Sabata11792,
@Sabata11792@kbin.social avatar

The second is content repetition. People (and bots) will frequently post the exact same content to multiple communities and multiple instances

Kbin shows where links have been posted on other federated servers. It's 10/10 for finding what community is actively discussing a post. I even found a few new subs I gave up on being active here.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@Sabata11792 it's great, we can see at a glance exactly where the active discussions are, when the crossposts are etc.

wjrii,
@wjrii@kbin.social avatar

That update seriously reinvigorated my enthusiasm for KBin as a platform. It's really nice to see a story I find interesting, regardless of magazine/community, then see where folks are actually discussing it.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@wjrii me too - and if there's more than one discussion, sometimes they have gone in different directions.

I also like the way it gives me a chance to upvote the original poster, and see communities I didn't know were out there.

And, it helps avoid reposts within the same community, not to mention the phenomenon I saw recently where a post got posted in community A, cross-posted in community B, and then reposted as a cross-post from community B into community A again. :D

Blaze,
@Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

lemmyverse.net/communities

PrinceWith999Enemies,

Thank you for this. I know these kinds of resources exist, and I even occasionally remember to make use of them :)

What I’m suggesting is that lemmy (and the community as a whole) would benefit from baking this functionality into the clients (including the web front ends if that’s a big chunk of the user base).

Discoverability is always a problem. Even centralized services such as Reddit have issues - I was still discovering new communities pretty much until the day I left after being on there since Alien Blue came out. It’s worse in decentralized communities because of the nature of the beast. Back in the Usenet days, it was considered a point of pride to know enough to find niche newsgroups, and even ones like alt.hack felt exclusive. Most of it passed around by word of mouth.

Even though the Usenet-like aspects of lemmy give it advantages over centralized sites like Reddit, I think we’ve learned enough over the last 30 years or so that we know user experience is absolutely critical if you want a popular service. I’m going to hazard a guess that when the big, well funded apps start to federate, they’re going to have those kinds of features built in. I’d rather see some of the smaller developers roll out features like that first, so that they can continue to be competitive (as AB and later on Apollo were for Reddit).

livus, (edited )
@livus@kbin.social avatar

a great feature would be to have the ability for users to consolidate feeds into a single feed

We have this at Kbin - collections (like multireddits, but shareable/followable as well); they really help with discovery.

It's a great feature, I hope you get something like it for Lemmy.

Https://kbin.social/magazines/collections

PrinceWith999Enemies,

I think if we could get something like this and build an Apollo type UI around it, we’d accelerate adoption and some app builder would make a fair chunk of money. I’m not allowed to build apps, but I do hope someone takes this up.

smort,
@smort@lemmy.world avatar

particularly casual users (which I think we could use a lot more of).

I feel like this isn’t discussed in enough of these meta discussions.

I want, for instance, for a video game discussion to have some input from the dude who has just buys Madden and Call of Duty every year.

PrinceWith999Enemies,

Absolutely. I think the entire community benefits when we have 60 year old ladies with gardening tips, foodies discussing fine dining and recipes, pet owners with advice driven by twenty years of owning chihuahuas, and sports people talking about sports (okay, that one’s not so much in my ballpark, as it were, but it’s all part of having communities).

If it’s a community for Linux users, or ML folks (machine learning, not politics), or the otherwise terminally online and tech obsessed, I’m fine with the bar for participation being high. At that point we have a filter rather than a net. But if we want to displace (or at least be a serious alternative) to services like Reddit, we need to make the on-ramp and UX easy for people whose interests are interesting but don’t necessarily include technology beyond knowing how to click on the blue words. If someone can tell me that putting an aspirin in my rhododendron will make it spring forth like Athena from the head of Zeus, I don’t care if they know the fediverse from a hole in the ground.

Also, I made that tip up. Don’t do it, or if you do let me know if it actually works.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

Kbin / Mbin actually fixed this by allowing if a Community isn't managed for 3 months by mods then it will be available for people to claim to admin. This allows people to keep the Community going and hopefully blow some life into it.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

This, plus people can claim it and delete it if that makes more sense.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

Yeah it's one of the many reasons I use Kbin / Mbin over Lemmy. Really hope features like that come to Lemmy in the future.

justlookingfordragon,
@justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world avatar

We already have such a feature tho. Two of the communities I mod were “adopted” because the original creators abandoned them.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

Does it do it automatically or do you have to request from the admins of the instance?

justlookingfordragon,
@justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world avatar

You have to request them on !support … and sadly it is not yet well-known. Automating the procedure (like making a community freely availiable after 6 months or so) would make adopting them a whole lot easier, but the additional hurdle of having to ask a supporter first means that they can decide on a case-by-case basis which lowers the risk of trolls taking over communities just to mess with them.

Both have their pro’s and con’s.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

On Kbin it's automated, but so far if a community is active they're the ones who're likely to request to own it, and if a troll took it the others could bring it up with Ernest at that point.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Me too. I get the impression we might have better discoverability in terms of being able to see what's active, and who is doing what where, as well.

Anxiety about the existence of inactive or small communities seems to be more of a Lemmy thing.

ragica,
@ragica@lemmy.ml avatar

I seem to recall on reddit there were a lot of subs that somehow had mods who modded hundreds of subs, and didn’t participate and weren’t a part of the actual communities. It seemed these people just liked collecting subs. I’d worry that with an automated system people like this (or even bots) will show up, and just start squatting (so to speak) on the mod rights to communities. Time will tell, I guess, with growth.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@ragica it's worked the opposite way so far.

People who made a bunch of communities and then didn't participate are the ones who were displaced after the update by active mods. I help out at a couple like that myself.

The system can always be tweaked if it doesn't scale right, but for now it's been quite revitalizing.

justlookingfordragon,
@justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world avatar

and just start squatting (so to speak) on the mod rights to communities

That already happens “manually”. Two of the communities I mod were originally created by community name squatters who grabbed a bunch of “popular” names and then basically abandoned the site the same day. One of those two users had created 25+ communities just to sit on the names. And one of the “partner communities” on a different instance was created by someone who put zero effort into creating content - they only opened a magazine and expected others to do all the work, then eventually abandoned it when they lost interest (hasn’t been online in 2 months). Luckily that magazine was recently adopted by someone who seems a lot more invested and active, but that doesn’t change the fact that the magazine had been “dead” for months prior to the new owner taking over.

Granted, an automated system would make it easier for squatters to just kinda program a queue of communities they want to grab, but the problem itself already exists even without an automated system.

Shirasho,

My problem is the same community on different instances. I block it once place but it pops up again on my feed in another instance.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

Yeah I find it sometimes helpful that multiple people can run communities in different instances but ATM it would be good if a few people created alternatives to set reddit like communities and we all go from there. Maybe it's a project someone could work on.

Blaze,
@Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

The main issue is that different people prefer different approaches based on instances

  • !games is the one for people who enjoy Lemmy world and the centralised experience
  • !games is for people who prefer to spread communities across different instances
  • !gaming is for people who enjoy a strong moderation and small community feeling

All of them are valid, but those different views prevent merging the communities

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

That's fair enough, I know that I want to see smaller communities to grow such as ones for certain games and creators. Making it into a place not only for Techy people is what the Fediverse needs to grow to wider audiences.

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

Lemmy.world has most of those because it's the biggest instance. If size is what you want, that's probably where you should look.

If your instance is kbin not mbin, when you search communities it probably doesn't give you the real subscriber numbers, only number who subscribed from your instance. You should look at number of posts to get a better idea.

Mbin fixed this I think.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.run avatar

Yes Mbin fixed this, my instance runs a version of Mbin and I love it, sad we are missing a few things from Kbin but the quality is better in the end. I'll have to look at more Lemmy.world communities as that seems to be where most people end up

livus,
@livus@kbin.social avatar

@SamXavia yeah, I think it's what you're looking for in terms of being closer to the reddit defaults.

You're never going to get all of us to agree to close smaller communities and flock to the biggest, because the strength of federation is decentralization and for some of us it's important to have communities on more than one instance.

For example the biggest movies community is on Lemmy.world, Kbin has one, and Lemm.ee has a sort of hybrid one with television mixed into it. Then as you can see from the Kbin collections page there are little niche ones about film frames, trailers, etc.

If lemmy.world goes down there are still plenty of places to go.

I think bigger niche communities are going to form organically over time and the anxiety we see is just growing pains as people get their heads around federation.

justlookingfordragon,
@justlookingfordragon@lemmy.world avatar

One can request abandoned communities at !support. The mods can either transfer ownership to someone else directly (which keeps all the content intact) or nuke the community so the interested user can start from scratch.

Not many people seem to be aware about this tho, or maybe don’t want to ask openly, or feel bad taking over what someone else had started.

So, as for your actual question, I think culling completely inactive, empty communities after a while would be the best option, so the names are freed up again for people who are actually interested in moderating. If the community already has content but no (active) mods, then “adopting” it is the better option, but there should be an additional way to communicate all of that clearer to the userbase. Maybe something like the current “community spotlight” but advertising abandoned communities that are up for adoption …?

LesserAbe,

I wasn’t aware, thanks!

krow,
@krow@lemmy.world avatar

yea, for c/tf2 the original mod for it was completely inactive, so I posted in the lemmy wirld support and they added a new mod who then made a post looking for new mods, all worked out in the end :)

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