Companies that obtain and sell your user information should have to pay you royalties. Agree or disagree?

Privacy concerns are a very popular and valid talking point on Lemmy, so I would like to gather your thoughts and opinions on this. (Apologies if it’s already been discussed!)

Would you support this? Would it work or even be viable? (If it could somehow overcome the rabid resistance from these big companies). What are your thoughts?

Personally, I’m getting more and more agitated at the state of this late stage global capitalism, where companies have the gall to ask you to pay or subscribe to their products, while they already make money from you for selling your data. It’s been an issue for a long time now, but seems to really be ramping up.

swordsmanluke,

Disagree. Privacy should be the default.

Collecting information should be legal only in so far as it supports the customer’s use of a product/service. E.g. It’s nice if my doctor can keep a medical history on file, or my mechanic can do the same for my car.

Selling/disclosing information to third parties should be illegal.

unodostres,

Agree

pissclumps,

I don’t care about royalties. They should pay a gigantic tax for selling it tho

Toneswirly,

yeah honestly the fraction of a cent I’d get negotiated wouldn’t make a dent in my life. I’d much rather we as a collective hold companies accountable for selling off our data. Politicians too; they’re all trying squeeze us for everything they can, and we consent by being apathetic.

Blackmist,

I’d prefer it if they simply weren’t allowed to collect it in the first place.

And I don’t think it would be viable, because no fucking way am I giving these parasites any banking information so they could pay me a pittance of what they get. They’d fucking sell that too!

It should be a requirement that you can see your own profile at any time, see everything they know about you, be able to edit it (including clearing it, and not with a billion checkboxes either), and lock it to prevent further modification and addition by themselves.

swordsmanluke,

Well, partial good news for you, friend! (Assuming you’re in the US)

California’s new CPRA law went into effect at the start of the year. As part of that law, CA residents can request to see their data, be deleted or edit it. Since it’s hard to validate whether someone is actually a resident or not, most places just allow everyone to do those things now.

But there are some big caveats. One is that getting access to your data can be complicated. There’s a risk of, e.g. an evil-ex requesting your info in order to stalk you, so some places will just confirm or deny the info you send. “Do you have my name? How about this email address?”, etc, but you can’t say "Gimme everything for ".

You can ask for all your personal data to be deleted. But the law says to delete everything… Which includes the fact that you made such a request, so the next time data about you arrives, the company has no record to indicate they should not collect it.

It’s a start.

aliostraat,

Absolutely. I think the difficulties in ensuring the data owner gets paid properly highlight the fact that gathering this data needs to be approved by the data owner and can’t just be done willy nilly. Data is a valuable resource, although in the most part intangible. It’s this intangibility that has given data hearders the impression its up for grabs. The whole system needs strick rules to protect people’s data wealth and not to mention privacy.

zik,

And I should get to set the price since it’s my data in the first place.

malloc,

Not just in the initial sale, but for every time my data is used.

makatwork,

Yes

glitches_brew,

I wonder what the side effects of this would be… There would suddenly be incentive for people to shape their lives in ways that would make them more attractive to advertisers, at least on paper.

I wonder if we would see improvementw to society at a macro level if people start making changes to be the types that are paid more for their data.

PiecePractical,

“Bro, we hitting the bar tonight?”

“Hell yeah! I’m three beers away from extra heavy drinker status this month. Let’s get that AB-Inbev cash!!”

(Sounds of chest bumping)

oxjox,

Consumer: I like your product. Can I use it?
Company: Sure thing! It’s free but we’re going to take your data and sell it.
Consumer: Okay!
. . . Consumer: Hey, you’re selling that data I told you you could sell as long as I can use your product for free! You should give me commission.

Me: Don’t use things that sell your data. Start by deleting the apps from your phone in favor of the web version. Make sure to decline allowing websites and services to track your usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a start.
What should be even more concerning at the moment is the Mozilla report that came out reporting that every car company is now extracting more of your personal information than TikTok or Facebook. …mozilla.org/…/privacy-nightmare-on-wheels-every-…

According to Mozilla research, popular global brands — including BMW, Ford, Toyota, Tesla, Kia, and Subaru — can collect deeply personal data such as sexual activity, immigration status, race, facial expressions, weight, health and genetic information, and where you drive. Researchers found data is being gathered by sensors, microphones, cameras, and the phones and devices drivers connect to their cars, as well as by car apps, company websites, dealerships, and vehicle telematics. Brands can then share or sell this data to third parties. Car brands can also take much of this data and use it to develop inferences about a driver’s intelligence, abilities, characteristics, preferences, and more.

Iceblade02,

You act as if it is actually feasible or reasonable to choose not to uae these services, when it, in fact, would be a severe handicap in day-to-day life

oxjox,

Do you have an example?

jcit878,

try navigating along distance trip you’ve never done before without google/apple/bing maps. they don’t publish hard copy street directorys anymore where I am

oxjox,

For iOS,
Google Maps Third-Party Advertising:
Location: Coarse Location
Search History: Search History
Browsing History: Browsing History
Identifiers: User ID
Usage Data: Advertising Data
Other Data: Other Data Types

Apple Maps Third-Party Advertising: N/A

oxjox,

There’s actually a number of mapping apps that are better than Google or Apple maps. Mapquest looks pretty good.

So, it seems more so the case that you’re acting as if there are no other choices when in fact there are.

Iceblade02,

To start with, an ISP. Most of them collect user data. Many services, such as banking, are unavailable or restricted over VPN (assuming you find one that doesn’t also collect your data).

Next, a smartphone. You’re limited to iOS or android, unless you have the option to root your device (which is a hassle), and both are basically loaded with spyware.

Your debit/credit card. Many providers will collect and monetize data regarding your purchases.

Your car (if newer than about 2010) or your public transit provider.

Need I go on? Try living without just one of these things.

oxjox,

I’m talking about deleting the FREE Facebook app from your phone and you’re talking about PAID ISPs. You’re not wrong but you’ve changed the conversation to ignore my point…

Company: Sure thing! It’s free but we’re going to take your data and sell it.
Consumer: Okay!
Start by deleting the apps from your phone in favor of the web version. Make sure to decline allowing websites and services to track your usage. It’s not perfect, but it’s a start.

How is deleting FREE apps from your phone and declining to allow websites to track you not a good start and how would this handicap your day-to-day life? My point is that if you’re suing something for free, you are the product. This needs to be at the forefront of people’s minds and they need to be made aware of the ramifications of choosing to use these FREE services.

Granted, I should have been more clear and said “Don’t use FREE things that sell your data”.

Yeah - there’s a lot to be concerned about. Hell yes there’s a huge concern about a PAID service also harvesting your data.
Let’s START by deleting apps off our phones because this is what we currently have the most control over and they’re the one’s harvesting the most kinds of data to sell to brokers.

Iceblade02,

How is deleting FREE apps from your phone and declining to allow websites to track you not a good start and how would this handicap your day-to-day life?

Okay, for an exact example. I have a work email via microsoft 365. Because I choose to not have the outlook app installed on any of my devices I do not get notified when I have unread mail.

Thus, I need to go through the abysmal web app login several times per day (because it automatically logs me out), and click through nagging pop ups imploring me to install the app in order to confirm whether I have any pending mail.

oxjox,

What privacy concerns are there with the Outlook app?

Iceblade02,

I don’t know, I didn’t read the entire 174 page privacy statement. In this case, I just assume that they exist and that I do not want their app installed on my phone, especially considering the permissions it wants.

ShittyBeatlesFCPres,

Do people here responding with “It’s a free service!” not realize paid services sell your data just as much? The ISP you’re using to read this is selling your data.

And the T&C terms are not anywhere near informed consent. They’re just permission to do anything they want with your data. Quit acting like consumer protection laws aren’t needed as long as someone clicked “I agree” to use a service required for modern life. We all know you can click “Cancel” and go live in the forest. We’d rather a third option besides exploitation and going feral.

Also, quit licking boot. You’re killing the jobs of PR people when you shill for corporations for free.

malloc,

just take a look at T&Cs and privacy disclaimers for auto manufacturers. Mozilla did an analysis and found all of them just stink. Imagine paying $30K for a brand new car, only to get your information sold by the dealership to shady warranty companies. The auto manufacturer selling out your data in perpetuity and listening to everything. Oh and one auto manufacturer is making claims on your sexual activity LOL

Welcome to the unregulated market of big data in the USA

zeppo,
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

People also say “well did you pay them anything??” to excuse when an ad/data supported business abuses a member. Take Facebook, for instance. I don’t care if we’re “the product” or customers… one way or the other, they make money from people using the site.

okamiueru,

I’m pretty sure ISPs don’t do this in the EU. Or, if they do, then they are in for a big hurt.

lord_ryvan,

Man, NordVPN sells your data to Google, among others!

This is why we can’t have good things anymore.

paddirn,

It depends, at the very least there should be more transparency about what is being shared with who. But what do you do in situations where they’re providing some sort of “free” service, like Gmail or something? I feel like there’s some sort if trade-off happening there, but we should be fully informed about what is that’s being given about us.

BeautifulMind,
@BeautifulMind@lemmy.world avatar

Y’know, if I could use gmail and pay a few bucks to do it (and not be tracked everywhere without a way to opt out) I would do it. Likewise for any social media that makes its money by trading my privacy for it, I would pay them for the service of being a conduit by which I can keep track of friends and family if it meant I wouldn’t be followed everywhere by ads. As for how ad revenue funds so much of the useful content online, it’s depressing as hell to see that political propaganda is free while informative media is sequestered behind paywalls. I’m old enough to remember when the news was a prestige business and didn’t have to turn a profit

The fact that platforms like Meta give advertisers (or propagandists) the ability to target their messaging to people that fit a detailed profile, tho, ensures that our politics can now be cheaply and profitably flooded with shit, and that in real ways is a threat to democracy, I think.

schnurrito,

You know that there are paid email services that aren’t Gmail, right?

Rentlar,

Proton isn’t a bad choice for this. They have paid and free tiers which can get you Google-like features without giving your data to an advertising company.

Titan-mail/flockmail is good for people wanting a business email not run by big G or MS.

stewie3128,

Only if you pay money to use their product yourself.

SkyNTP,

“By clicking here you agree to the terms of service [which expressly state that in exchange for receiving the service without charge or at discount rate, you wave any rights to royalties on any personal information collected]” or something to that effect.

As long as users willingly participate, the only way to solve this problem is to educate users about the dangers. It’s a very similar situation as cigarettes. Banning cigarettes doesn’t work because then users will just willingly circumvent the ban, possibly turning to black or grey markets.

ThatWeirdGuy1001,
@ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world avatar

I want you to go to whatever search engine you use and search “how long does it take to read terms and conditions” so you can see that reading them would take days.

Boiglenoight,

If you use a company’s service without agreeing to pay them with money, you likely agreed to share your information with no strings attached. Problem there being once that’s done, your information is liable to be resold ad infinitum with no legal protection for you. What should happen is legislation that federally declares that agreement null and void, and put in its place nationwide law that dictates what companies and citizens can and can’t do with intellectual property as it pertains to someone’s personal information.

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