Has the Reddit exodus killed the former Lemmy culture?

When I first started using Lemmy it seemed like such a nice place with interesting discussions. It seemed like the first group of people to join after the app exodus were being quite careful to be respectful of the existing culture.

Now, it seems as though the culture from Reddit has completely replaced it. Toxicity and all. I will say I do follow a lot of communities from a wide range of instances so it’s clearly not everywhere.

Am I the only one who’s feeling like we’ve just stormed in and bulldozed Lemmy?

schwim,
@schwim@reddthat.com avatar

Echo chambers are echo chambers, no matter the platform. As the voices grow, it gets louder. Just because it’s an alternative to the mainstream, I wouldn’t consider the members here smarter, more enlightened or savvier as a whole. Lemmy just got louder, that’s all.

wesker,
@wesker@lemmy.sdf.org avatar

It’s the politics, and the siloing as a result.

JasSmith,

Anything politics related is incredibly toxic. I've received death threats for having the wrong political opinions.

echo64,

Maybe don’t go around expunging your weirdo transphobia, hate against Muslims and refugees, and you won’t encounter as much toxicity.

givesomefucks,

Lots of people think “free speech” means they can say anything they want and everyone has to pretend it’s a rational well thought opinion…

Their version of “free speech” ends when they stop speaking, and they want to force everyone to listen to it and not call them a dumbass or bigot.

It’s that low empathy thing.

They want free speech for themselves but not anyone that disagrees with them.

Not to mention social media is private corporations. Like, if you go to Walmart and start screaming about how birds aren’t real, Walmart don’t have to let you stand there and scream all you want. They can just make you leave. Which is the equivalent of banning.

Chozo,

It's always the 'phobes that have the biggest hard-ons for free speech. I wonder why that is.

Ensign_Crab,

It’s always the 'phobes that have the biggest hard-ons for free speech.

Until there’s a book about gay penguins in a library.

FARTYSHARTBLAST,
@FARTYSHARTBLAST@kbin.social avatar

Expunging? Doesn't that mean to get rid of?

squiblet,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

I have received a death threat for having opinions about medical conditions, so... it's just sort of how it works talking to the public on the internet. People who work in retail may now and then receive death threats for serving coffee.

starlinguk,
@starlinguk@kbin.social avatar

Ah yeah I'm afraid we don't take the high road anymore. It's not worked. Probably because "the libs" have realised that y'all don't have a better nature to appeal to.

(And something tells me you're projecting)

shinigamiookamiryuu,

It’s most likely just a phase, though it doesn’t help I made something for it.

Kissaki,
@Kissaki@feddit.de avatar

I don’t quite get what you made that community for?

Linking to bad content, that was downvoted, and then participating in a celebratory culture of them seems like an inherently toxic and negative thing? I don’t see how it’d help the issue.

though it doesn’t help I made something for it.

Are you saying you made it to help the issue, or irrelevant to it not helping?

shinigamiookamiryuu,

I’m saying I made something that’s more becoming of something that’s not a phase, and the way you describe it isn’t accurate at all. It’s not celebratory in the least, it exist to examine the why’s, and your perception having been cast, I will demonstrate for you and all your upvoters who probably have either never been on Reddit or want to taunt for the sake of it.

Kissaki,
@Kissaki@feddit.de avatar

You actually posted a screenshot of these comments? The -2 on your original comment counts as “downvoted into oblivion” as per the communities rules?

The community description says nothing about celebratory vs exploring as you claim it to be clearly one over the other here. And your example does not help that distinction either. It makes it more confusing / less indicative of your supposed intention - because rather than facilitating an open discussion and exploration you use a passive aggressive tone, and use this comment chain that was critical and started a discussion. You seem to be doing the opposite - specifically what I talked about - a toxic elevation.

shinigamiookamiryuu,

It’s because of what it’s based on. It should be noted OP asked a question based on a real issue, and I answered optimistically only to be have it deceptively demoralized, especially considering the whole point of Lemmy is to be another, hopefully better Reddit, and for that to be rewarded more than the optimism, all the while the post grading system many promised wouldn’t exist. Hence I said (not passive agressively) that I would use this as an opportunity to demonstrate what the average Redditor would already know, since it did leave the door open to interpret everyone as taunting me “for the safe of [demonstrating the community]”.

Spiracle,
@Spiracle@kbin.social avatar

Kbin user here. It does not federate downvotes from lemmy. So far, I have a total of two (2) downvotes and every single interaction, including the one I got downvoted for, was quite positive.

No toxicity in normal interactions so far. The only (slightly) toxic comment sections were regarding meta topics of users complaining about toxicity elsewhere and/or wanting to defederate more communities. Even those discussions were nearly entirely polite and productive.

The only somwhat toxic topic I participated in was when one car-enthusiast complained about the fuckcars community and got called out throughout the comment section. Piling on like that was probably not the best way and they deleted their post some time after.

JokeDeity,

Unpopular opinion, but I really hate the soft bubble space every social media is becoming and welcome the freedom of speech. I’m not saying people should be harassing each other, but it is nice knowing I could call someone a fucking dumbass when they’re being one and not expect an IP ban.

Spiracle,
@Spiracle@kbin.social avatar

Yes and no. I’d prefer user choice/curating your own list of instance you interact with.

However, each community also adds further burden on moderation. The communities you allow affect the culture, and some are very clearly more trouble than others.

My current solution would be to have multiple accounts for different sections of the fediverse. Currently I only have a generic Kbin and a Lemmy account, but if you find a Lemmy instance that’s federated with the broader free-speech spectrum without just veering into insane territory itself, I’d be interested.

Maeve,

What if instead of that we asked why someone thinks a way, and what led to their conclusions?

JasSmith,

The first step is allowing others to think a different way. On Reddit, using the wrong word can see you banned from 20 of the top subreddits and even earn you a site-wide ban.

squiblet,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

I recall that 5-6 years ago on reddit, veering into a disapproved sub and saying anything at all, such as "Wow, I really disagree with this", could result in automatic bans from other subs for participating in the disapproved sub. Also, the widely disapproved sub would quickly permaban you with a hateful message containing various insults.

Nemo,

True. I got an automatic ban from r/BlackLivesMatter, as sub I participated in regularly, for calling out a wrongheaded comment on r/conservative, a sub I’d never visited before. And while the mods at the BLM sub were happy to review and correct this ban, it was still a bit jarring.

kick_out_the_jams,

Getting banned by a bot and having to beg somebody to actually read what you posted is an experience.

Levsgetso,

I think radical and hateful people should be called out but just insulting each other is going to radicalise them even further. The best way is to have a civil discussion and see the other’s pov, and when they can’t do anything but be an asshole, just ignore them.

Ensign_Crab,

I think that anywhere that welcomes bigots is truly welcoming only to bigots. Not every site needs to pretend forever that bigots are just misguided souls who just need a lil’ more understanding before they stop being bigots out of the goodness of their hearts because they’ve attained satori. Bigots can and do take advantage of sites like that.

If you want to engage with bigots, there’s plenty of places for you to go do that. reddit, facebook, threads, xhitter, truth social, 4chan, the comments section of any youtube video, hell even lemmy has exploding-heads.

There’s too many nazi bars already. Not every bar needs to be one.

Levsgetso,

Definitely agree, some people are just not worth even engaging with.

squiblet,
@squiblet@kbin.social avatar

People can and do undergo change and become enlightened. Certain people, however, are not willing and do not engage in any sort of good faith exchange of ideas, and I agree - it’s useless. I’m not here to provide angry psychopaths or government shills with therapy.

Candelestine,

Personally I did notice a change in tone, but it wasn’t the reddit influx, it was a couple weeks later, around the time the hacks started.

Ab_intra,
@Ab_intra@lemmy.world avatar

I find Lemmy much better than Reddit. But this comes down to what communities you follow in my view.

Nemo,

I can’t compare the two, since I swore off political munis at the same time I migrated. That alone makes for a much better experience.

ren, (edited )
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

It’s scale.

Scale is the enemy of social networks. All of them, including Lemmy.

Let’s say 0.1% of the population are just straight up assholes who ruin everything.

If you only got 100 people on a site, no one is an asshole.

1000 people? Well now you got that asshole Andy in the group. Fucking Andy. But we can deal with him.

But we scale up to 1,000,000? Well now you got 1000 fucking assholes to deal with!

atlasraven31,

If my math is right, it should be 1,000 assholes at the end.

Kecessa,

Stop being an asshole Andy!

ren,
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah. Morning math got me stupid. lol. Edited!

r00ty,
@r00ty@kbin.life avatar

I don't want to be that asshole Andy. But 0.1% of 1,000,000 is 1000. :P

atlasraven31,

imgur.io/5qnfUdo?r

ren,
@ren@lemmy.world avatar

Derp! Thanks!!

rikudou,
@rikudou@lemmings.world avatar

Well, thanks a bunch, Andy.

dogebread,

So you’re saying it’s proportional all the way up and not a big deal, or people love assholes and upvote all their material and comments for greater proportional impact?

If anything I would argue that the first and early adopters are less likely to be assholes, to where eventually you reach that tipping point and move back towards the average, which feels worse in what is a collection of niche communities, because the average engages slightly different content than early adopters.

Moreso, I think it’s just confirmation bias. OP is hyper sensitive to a change in the culture so every example of it weighs a little more.

To be clear, like most things, I don’t think it’s one thing or another; a little from A, a little from B, and probably a slew of other factors.

givesomefucks,

The bigger an asshole someone is, the more theyre going to comment…

One asshole is just one asshole, but 100 assholes are going to make more comments than 1,000 normal users.

Which makes it look like there are 10x as many assholes as there really is.

atlasraven31,

I want to jump in and say that people do love assholes. You need look no further than celebrities and the people that hang on their every word.

zeppo, (edited )
@zeppo@lemmy.world avatar

I am relatively new here, having embraced Lemmy after fleeing reddit in June. During my short tenure I have observed a change in culture and decline in politeness and respect for others. However, I think that some claims about the rise of toxic behavior are overstated.

In any event, it’s like a city growing from 500 people to 5,000, or from 50,000 people to 500,000. Of course the culture is going to be changed. Such growth is important to avoid stagnation and death by attrition, however. I think at this point Lemmy has achieved a critical mass where it is likely to continue growing. When people ask “how can we grow Lemmy faster or further”, though, I question whether that is really a good idea. Sites like reddit are somewhat too large, which is great for niche interests but fairly horrible for the most popular communities.

Kroxx,

As communities grow from obscurity to populated change is inevitable. I used to use reddit and the #1 thing I hated was the condescending, holier than thou attitude that was rampant. I have seen it occasionally on here but for the most part Lemmy is a breath of fresh air, so I personally don’t think reddit culture has replaced it. I can definitely see a strong cultural influence from reddit but I personally think Lemmy culture is significantly different, in a good way.

Illegal_Prime, (edited )

Yes!

I’ve noticed it in political discussions especially. I often find the nitty gritty of my political opinions at odds with much of the apparent consensus on both Reddit and Lemmy. But on Lemmy I generally find people to be a lot less dogmatic, and more open to constructive discussion, rather than repeating the same slogans over and over. Not that it doesn’t happen on Lemmy, but I can’t really remember the last time I heard someone say “It’s not a bug, it’s a feature” unironically.(I have heard “orphan crushing machine” thrown around a bit, but at least that one is kinda funny.)

Overall, the mainstream on Lemmy feels like an upgrade from Reddit, though I do miss more niche communities catering toward my interest.

Flambo,

As a Digg migrant now Reddit migrant, the "has <new user base> killed our culture?" thing is a heavy dose of deja vu. No mockery intended; I think it's a reasonable question.

rikudou,
@rikudou@lemmings.world avatar

Except for a few power-tripping mods and admins I haven’t seen much of Reddit culture here. And the blatant copy of r/place was a little cringe (especially as it was introduced with “let’s create our own customs!”).

INHALE_VEGETABLES,

It’s the circle of life. Something awful, the digg exodus, reddit, Twitter/x. Think of us shit posters as a sign of lemmy success.

roguetrick,

Us goons really shit up everywhere we show up don't we.

cstine,

Goons are responsible for the destruction of so many good things on the internet. Best $10 I’ve ever spent.

polskilumalo,
@polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml avatar

Yup, Reddit culture and redditorisms have very much taken a hold in Lemmy unfortunately. Hell I remember that well since I came over here after GenZedong got quarantined. If anything I’ve seen Lemmy culture maintained only in the places that have created and fostered it for years before Redditors came over and which were actively combating Reddit culture from coming over.

Those places being of course Lemmygrad and Hexbear, I would also include lemmy.ml here if it didn’t die a painful death. I remember it being a completely different place before, now I tend to avoid threads from there rather than take part. It just isn’t what it used to be, fortunately Hexbear somewhat offsets this problem by having a completely separate and distinct culture. I like them, and I like very much that they are Reddit resistant.

BonesOfTheMoon,

I came to Lemmy from reddit and I find it an incredibly nice place to be, full of polite discussions and fun posts. I haven’t seen any of what you’re saying.

polskilumalo,
@polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml avatar

It’s difficult to have a respectful discussion of disagreements on lemmy.world and sometimes even lemmy.ml, especially since a lot of the users I try to engage with start of with “ewww lemmygrad” and I tend to disengage there. It’s just not productive nor is it anything worth my time.

If both parties already agree on a line you won’t find any disrespect. And this kind of interaction is one I see most often, especially when it comes down to politics over on lemmy.world…

I think Hexbear has a posting startegy, that I’ve seen countlessly now, which works well. Start of with good faith discussion, if it goes well continue on the same path, if the other party decides to be a shitty person then post PPB, troll or disengage.

BonesOfTheMoon,

I don’t see any of that but maybe I’m in the wrong places. I’m actually really happy to be here because it’s nice and people are friendly.

polskilumalo,
@polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml avatar

More luck to ya, I wish I could say the same outside of Hexbear and Lemmygrad. Either way, I’m happy lemmy is working out, at least for others.

givesomefucks,

When the rightwing communities started getting defederated, their users started making alts on the main instances.

Then you’ve got lemmy.grad which I still have trouble believing aren’t just all trolls.

I’ve never seen a logical comment from any of them. And they agree with the rightwingers waaaaay to often for it be a coincidence.

Like, there was a thread the other day filled with people saying Islam is a violent religion and no other religion encourages violence. And all 1.7 billion Muslims support terrorist extremists.

Maybe because China and Russia have also been oppressing them for centuries so lemmy.grad has to act like that’s the right move?

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Like, there was a thread the other day filled with people saying Islam is a violent religion and no other religion encourages violence.

Any links for that one?

givesomefucks,

No idea how to link so other instances see it on theirs but:

lemmy.world/post/3293542?scrollToComments=true

There was like double the comments from last time I looked at it tho, it’s been a couple days

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

No idea how to link so other instances see it on theirs but:

I’m not sure there is a way right now.

maegul, (edited )
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Thanks!!

I’m struggling to find any anti-Islamic sentiment in there from lemmygrad users?? (which is what I was interested in seeing … ordinary Christianity > Islam isn’t too surprising to see anywhere I’d say, however shallow it is).

EDIT: All I could find was this one comment from a lemmygrad user (along with a small exchange afterwards) that seemed to me entirely sympathetic to the Afghans and not at all anti-islamic.

chomskysfave5,

Internet leftist gets spooked when they see comments that don’t perfectly subscribe to their cult. Their brains don’t know what to do but call them right-wingers and Nazis. This really is reddit.

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

I’m honestly not sure what you’re talking about, but I think you could work on being respectful and sincerely engaging.

Pandantic,
@Pandantic@midwest.social avatar

No kidding. Talk about toxicity.

maegul,
@maegul@lemmy.ml avatar

Ha yea … oddly ironic.

uberkalden,

Aaaaand there’s the troll we were talking about

grff,

Ha same. When I first started lemmy, every time I would accidentally stumble upon a lemmy.grad post I would be so confused. At first I thought it was trolls, i thought it was satire.

And yeah I also remember that post from yesterday, all the comments underneath were people telling eachother to fuck off and that every single Muslim was a violent terrorist who wants to oppress woman. I think these people probably don’t get outside much is my best guess . I have noticed quite the lack of civility in some of the threads here…

BonesOfTheMoon,

I guess I’m just not seeing that part. Hopefully the admins do something.

conditional_soup,

Seen this. I commented on the lemm.ee meta discussion about considering defederating from Hexbear. I mentioned some of the things I’ve seen from Hexbear users and that I wish they’d just take a chill pill. Cue Hexbears (I assume), refusing to take chill pills.

Kecessa,

I don’t feel like I see that many people from the alt right or tankies with my instance being defederated from theirs, so I don’t think them creating alts is that much of an issue, but maybe it’s because I don’t see that much political content on All/top 6h 🤔

zndl972,

People I disagree with all around me!! Oh the horror!!

pewgar_seemsimandroid,

same i suppose

BonesOfTheMoon,

I did see some anti Islam memes on the atheist community but that’s not really unexpected, they’re anti all religion.

Kecessa,

“We’re egalitarians, we hate all of you equally!”

Skotimusj,

I agree. Came from reddit in June. Lemmy has been a very friendly place. I just posted for advice with a typo in the title. Noone even mentioned it. No belittling advice or bickering. Just kindness and helpfulness.

Mr_Blott,

Did the same and was helpfully informed that unlike Reddit, you can edit the title if there’s a typo in it :)

BonesOfTheMoon,

Firefish is also incredibly sweet. Honestly the fediverse makes me feel good about the Internet for the first time in years.

Driftking,

I disagree with you in a snide and condescending tone while missapropriating your argument.

BonesOfTheMoon,

Let’s fight.

Driftking,

:(

AttackBunny,

I think I agree. When I first moved here everyone was so nice, respectful, and willing to have an actual dialogue. Now it feels more like Reddit where when you say something every just immediately jumps to shitting on you, even if they interpret what you said wrong, or if they disagree. I also feel like there are a lot more of the “well, akshewally….” Types here now. There also seems to be people who honestly can’t grasp this isn’t Reddit, and brought the same mentality/trends with them.

qooqie,

The smaller communities are still very nice. I keep my subscribed to mostly smaller communities and then I go to all if I feel like it. Try that and see if it help!

Levsgetso,

I definitely agree. I pointed out that [email protected] is becoming more and more like AskReddit and I got downvoted and got these sarcastic and obnoxious responses that are typical for reddit

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