How is it even possible/practical to obey traffic laws?

I’m talking specifically about obeying the speed limit, doing a full stop at stop signs, etc. After receiving a speeding ticket for doing 53 in a 50, As an experiment I went a full day obeying all traffic laws 100% and it caused so much road rage. For example, there is a 2 lane road near me with a speed limit of 50 (where I got the ticket), traffic usually moves at about 60/65. There was a huge line of cars behind me and nowhere to pull over. As soon as an opening came up on the shoulder I was about to pull over and one of the cars behind me blew past me on the on the right blaring their horn. Then another truck passed me at the next opportunity and brake checked me. Both of these cars proceeded to run a red light about 1/4 mile ahead of me endangering others. By far the worst part of driving on this 2 lane road was the 25 mph work zone which is completely ignored by everyone else. It effectively resulted in me doing 25 mph in a “60” which is very dangerous.

Having needed to spend the entire day pulling over at every opportunity to let people pass I inevitably picked up a drill bit and got a flat tire.

Even matters as simple as stopping completely at a stop sign for 1 second cause immediate anger and dangerous behavior from other drivers.

What on earth are we expected to do? All I want is to avoid speeding tickets and drive safely.

sirico,
@sirico@feddit.uk avatar

Standards of driving sound bad where you are

Nemo,

If everyone followed the law, there would be no problem. The problem is that bad and unsafe driving is normalized in our society.

MJBrune,

I feel this places blame directly on the users of the road instead of the designers of the road. People just drive in ways they feel are safe. We could absolutely drive better as a society but realistically the countries with safe driving have designed the roads a lot better than we have. This is likely because America is so damn huge and we have very little federal regulation on what a road needs to be safe. So a road in the US could be gravel or worse, just two tire marks in the grass. A road also could be a 50 mile an hour street with intersections every block or two making them extremely unsafe and inefficient.

Our road design is trash and it’s really the root cause.

argv_minus_one,

Everyone would follow the law if it was enforced consistently. The authorities know that, and enforce it inconsistently so that they can fine people at random. It’s a money-making scheme.

djmarcone,

You should protest the ticket in court. Going along with traffic is a valid defense. Get documentation of the behavior mentioned in your post. Doing what you did is more dangerous than going 3 over. The local bureaucracy has a problem there and you can use this issue to shine light on it.

FlaminGoku,

It’s not a valid defense. I tried using it once and the judge said, if they all drove off a bridge, would you too?

You will have better luck arguing the 3 mph is within the margin of error of the radar gun, that you were on a hill that was slightly accelerating, you slightly sped up to avoid and accident, etc.

kent_eh,

Or within the margin of error of your speedometer.

MomoTimeToDie,

deleted_by_author

    •
    FlaminGoku,

    First speeding ticket in my late teens so live and learn.

    cooopsspace,

    Write to your local member.

    Care less about what others do.

    Move to a first world nation or state. (Most of the US isn’t).

    Definitely get a dashcam.

    Post dashcam footage on YouTube.

    Send a bill to the city to the tyre.

    Complain about people’s dangerous road behaviour until the behaviour is enforced or speed changed.

    Ocelot,

    You know after thinking about it, its only really been a huge problem on this one road where I live. The speed limit varies between 35,45,50 mph and theres one construction zone that is 25 mph. As a whole traffic goes about 60-70mph throughout. Its a windy valley road that is frequented by bicycles and hikers and people have absolutely been killed there in speed related accidents. I sent a message to the sheriff’s department voicing concerns but I’ve heard complaints from neighbors about it for years and its still a huge problem.

    On other roads especially highways its mostly no problem to avoid speeding as long as you stay in the right lane, after all trucks avoid speeding most of the time for efficiency and safety reasons, unless you hit a 50-55mph zone like for construction. Those are nearly always ignored by other drivers. Slowing down to comply with the speed limit is likely to get you rear ended since so many are distracted. If you’re lucky enough not to be rear ended it usually results in getting flipped off, but sometimes road rage incidents can escalate.

    kabobglance,

    I follow all traffic laws to a tee, just to be the change I want to see in the world. Pedestrian deaths (negligent manslaughter IMO) by cars are at an all time high in my country. As a bonus, I usually end up right next to the asshole speeding and weaving in and out of traffic at the red light

    ntzm,

    I do it when I have to drive. If people get angry that’s their problem.

    agent_flounder,
    @agent_flounder@lemmy.one avatar

    It’s a game unfortunately.

    Sometimes you get nailed for something fucking stupid like 53 in a 50. (Maybe that is worth contesting). Sometimes you deserve it (like me doing 40 in a 25 one time). But there’s no justice. Loads of people get away with breaking loads of laws all the time before they finally get caught.

    So it’s a game for us. But actually it’s a money maker for the government doing the enforcing.

    One thing works well for me: using Google maps to navigate everywhere I go has the benefit of speed trap notifications.

    tikitaki,
    @tikitaki@kbin.social avatar

    I've been driving for about a decade and a half now, including a few years here and there working jobs with a lot of wheel time. Either pizza delivery or cable technician or driving around a box truck.

    I have never gotten as much as a speeding ticket. I typically don't speed more than 5~10 mph over the limit. If it's a 35 or 40 in a city area though I will typically stay the speed limit. Sometimes I go a little ham on country roads in the middle of nowhere. I drove through central Florida once at like 4am and I peaked at like 120mph because I hadn't seen another car for at least an hour.

    I think it probably depends on your jurisdiction, but nobody really respects the laws. On the interstate near my house, the speed limit is 65 but it might as well be 80. Cops will pass you and people will pass the cops and nobody cares.

    I think the speeding laws are just to give the cops a reason to pull you over if they want you - OR a way to get people that are really being crazy. For example if you're going 110 in a 65 you deserve to get pulled over and given a ticket or worse, depending on context.

    some_guy,

    I think it probably depends on your jurisdiction

    This is the real answer. There’s a town near me that used to be training grounds for new sheriff’s deputies. The accepted rule was to never deviate by even 1mph there. I recently heard that training doesn’t happen there anymore, but I’m not willing to risk it unless I’m in the middle of a bunch of other cars that are also going above the limit so I don’t stand out.

    unwinagainstable,

    Getting a speeding ticket while going 3 miles over the speed limit sucks so I can see why you’re upset.

    I’ve never had a problem just going with the flow of traffic. Sometimes almost everyone is going over the speed limit. I go with that. I’ve lived in Minnesota most of my life. I’m more comfortable than most driving in snow and ice. Sometimes in snowy conditions the flow of traffic seems slower than necessary. Yet, again, I just go with the traffic flow and end up driving a bit slower than I would otherwise. If there’s little to no traffic I just go the speed limit. If someone wants in my lane I let them in whenever possible.

    Ocelot,

    Traffic on that road regularly does 60+ unfortunately. There weren’t any other cars around when I got the ticket.

    unwinagainstable,

    I’d go with the flow even if they are going over. Drivers going at different speeds can lead to dangerous situations so I try to avoid that most of all. If there’s little traffic then I’d go about the speed limit.

    Ocelot,

    That is still illegal and you can be ticketed for it. That is my point. “Its OK to break the law if everyone else was doing it” is not a valid legal defense. The law states in every state I checked that no driver shall exceed the posted speed limit under any circumstances.

    unwinagainstable,

    You’re right, you could. I never have been ticketed or in an accident. It’d be better if everyone followed the speed limit, but since that doesn’t happen I try to take the safest approach possible given the situation.

    Contramuffin,

    Also be aware that police tend to be a bit more stringent with enforcing traffic rules if you’re traveling through a small town. I read an article long ago (so take this with a grain of salt) that the police department of a small town gets a large portion of its funding through speeding tickets, so there’s a huge incentive for police in those areas to enforce traffic laws as tightly as possible.

    In any case, the highest that I’ll do is speed limit + 5 mph when there’s not that many other cars around, and if the other cars want to pass by me, no big deal

    annoyedcamel,

    I like to live a little more dangerously, so I do the speed limit plus ten.

    bigschnitz,

    It’s incorrect to think of most road laws as being in place for safety, instead recognize that it’s largely a tax by another name. It is never safe to drive 20mph below prevailing traffic, regardless of what the sign on the side of the road instructs.

    To avoid fines, pay attention and try to avoid routes where there are often cops collecting a toll, especially during quieter times when you’re one of a smaller number of commuters (and more likely to be the sucker who gets pinged). If you’re white, congratulations, you’re way less likely to be the unlucky party who gets pinged.

    son_named_bort,

    The last ticket I got was from parking within 15 feet of a fire hydrant. There’s no sign or marker indicating where 15 feet is, so I had to basically eyeball it and hope that I was far enough from the hydrant. Yeah, that’s one that’s almost impossible to practically obey.

    IphtashuFitz,

    My wife once got a ticket in Boston for an expired meter. The meter was labeled as being in effect until 6pm. The ticket was issued at around 6:30.

    When she went to fight it the traffic judge was adamant that she should know all meters in the city are enforced until 8pm. He let it go but warned her not to do it again.

    A few weeks later she ran into one of the parking enforcement people who said that they know a handful of meters are labeled wrong, but despite reporting them nothing ever happens. He said they do try to be lenient and ignore cars parked in those spots between 6pm and 8pm but sometimes they’re just so frazzled from the day that they forget…

    SwingingTheLamp,

    I’m going to remember this question next time I see one of those “BuT cYcLIsTs!” idiots.

    driving_crooner,
    @driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br avatar

    Car drivers are the only group of people who can disregard the laws that govern them, risk the lives of everyone around them, and then cry that 1% of the time they get penalized for it.

    argv_minus_one,

    What on earth are we expected to do?

    Pay the fines. It’s a money-making scheme, not a public-safety scheme.

    chahk,

    Exactly. It’s also a “jerks on power trips” scheme for the police. A ticket for going 53 in a 50 zone will be dismissed by any judge, but the cops know you probably don’t have the time to waste taking them to court over $100.

    I’m terms of other impatient drivers, that’s why you have a middle finger on each hand.

    CmdrShepard,

    Not to mention it’s easy work for them. Why solve a murder when you can just bust some people for driving at the same speed as traffic? Solving murders doesn’t generate any money for the department or state.

    morrowind,
    @morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

    I’m not sure where you live, but in many places if the speed of traffic is faster than the speed limit, you’re expected to follow that, if you can do so safely, because driving slowly causes the reckless behavior you mentioned and can actually be more dangerous

    Kadjiis,

    Many places? Where are you from? I’d like to see that written down in a law book before putting that theory to the test 😉

    morrowind,
    @morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

    please see my other answer

    JoBo,

    It’s true for motorcycles in the UK. You’re taught to keep up with the prevailing traffic because you’re too vulnerable not to. You don’t fail your test for speeding if it’s appropriate in the circumstances.

    Cars can get pulled over for going too slow and holding people up. But obv not if they’re doing at or close to the speed limit.

    Ocelot,

    I’m in the US, California specifically. I actually thought this was true here but I can’t find any state law where the “limit” in speed limit is not a hard limit. You can get a ticket for doing 11 mph in a 10mph zone, but the only leeway is a 10% suggestion given to police officers to allow for speedometer calibration. It will likely get thrown out in court but they can still ticket you for it.

    morrowind,
    @morrowind@lemmy.ml avatar

    In California it’s mainly based on section 22350:

    No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

    From the handbook:

    Regardless of the posted speed limit, your speed should depend on:

    • The number of vehicles on the road.
    • The speed of other vehicles on the road.
    • The road surface: smooth, rough, graveled, wet, dry, wide, or narrow.
    • Bicyclists or pedestrians on or crossing the road.
    • Weather: rain, fog, snow, wind, or dust.
    • Traffic congestion: small changes in your driving habits can help reduce congestion. Avoid weaving in and out of freeway lanes.
    Ocelot,

    True but this only applies up to the posted speed limit. You are never under any circumstances allowed to exceed the posted limit per 22348: codes.findlaw.com/ca/…/veh-sect-22348/

    What you posted means you are not allowed to drive faster than is safe for the road conditions. 65mph in a 65 is too fast if there is dense fog for example.

    “Its OK to speed if everyone else is doing it” is not part of any law or in any handbook.

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