Why is everything in consumer / American life so fucking shitty now - and companies literally just say 'oh bc profit margins' and we're now expected to swallow that and sympathize?

like I went to taco bell and they didn’t even have napkins out. they had the other stuff just no napkins, I assume because some fucking ghoul noticed people liked taking them for their cars so now we just don’t get napkins! so they can save $100 per quarter rather than provide the barest minimum quality of life features.

TWeaK,

Huggies went up in price, but their cost of manufacturing actually went down.

It’s got nothing to do with profit margins, it’s just pure greed. Also, the law requires that publicly traded companies be greedy.

Chouxfleur,
@Chouxfleur@lemmy.world avatar

How does the law require them to be greedy?

I just assumed that it was shareholders.

Touching_Grass,

Maybe not an exact law to be greedy but aren’t they legally responsible for acting in the interest of the shareholders not the consumer

SPRUNT,

Not technically a “law”…

“The shareholder wealth maximization doctrine requires public corporations to pursue a single purpose to the exclusion of all others: increase the wealth of shareholders by increasing the value of their shares. However, a company should be committed to enhance shareholder value and comply with all regulations and laws that govern shareholder’s rights.”

The" however… " part is largely ignored, except for when it benefits shareholders.

TheGalacticVoid,

The “however” part you quoted explicitly mentions following the rights of shareholders. From what you described, there’s literally nothing else in the doctrine to ignore.

SPRUNT,

Yeah, your right. I guess I got to the part where it said “comply with regulations and laws” and laughed through the rest.

OurToothbrush,

nothing to do with profit margins, it’s just pure greed

???

TWeaK,

Maybe I should have said “it’s nothing to do with maintaining profit margins” against rising costs.

OurToothbrush,

Gotcha, that makes sense.

chaospatterns,

Also, the law requires that publicly traded companies be greedy

The law doesn’t actually state you need screw over your customers and maximize profit. It says that executives have a fiduciary duty, which means they must act in the best interest of the shareholder, not themselves.

That does not mean they have to suck out every single dollar of profit. Executives have some leeway in this and can very easily explain that napkins lead to happier customers and longer term retention which means long term profits.

It’s purely a short-term, wall street driven, behavior also driven by executive pay being also based in stock so they’re incentivized to drive up the price over the next quarter so they can cash out.

TWeaK,

Yeah sure, but then you could also say the same about a private business. The CEO works for the business owner, whether the owner is private or public stockholders.

But the reality is that publicly traded companies end up being far more greedy and profit driven than private businesses. In particular, the greedy private businesses tend to taget an IPO, while the more conscientious ones remain private.

Wooki,

Lack of competition against an embedded brand name. Change brands.

TWeaK,

The brands shuffle their designs to stay ahead of IP laws. Gillette made the definitive shaving razor in 1901, the patent subsequently expired and anyone could make it, now they make new razors every few years to stay ahead of the curve.

With nappies, the correct answer is reusable nappies. It sounds gross, but when you’re a parent you quickly learn to deal with all kinds of shit.

You also get funky designs and stuff. The insides are interchangeable, the oustides are fashion.

Wooki,

when you’re a parent you quickly learn to deal with all kinds of shit.

Depends if you have a second washing machine because you’re now creating a new waste and different expense. Also depends on how much time you have and every dual income family answer the same. None. So no the generalisation that reusables are the solution is not accurate at all. I’d prefer biodegradable nappies any day. The washing machine goes over time as it is with the 14 outfit changes every day.

TWeaK,

2nd washing machine?? How many people do you know with 2 washing machines???

“Biodegradable” is a marketing term.

I’m not knocking people who use disposable (biodegradable - HAH) nappies, but that doesn’t mean that washing reusable nappies is something impossible for most people. If anything, disposable nappies are a relatively new invention.

Maybe with current electricity prices the maths has changed, but washing reusable nappies worked out far cheaper for me when my kids were using them.

Wooki,

Actually at least two families who have small children AND reusable nappies.

I don’t care for the “marketing” I mean it from the actual definition. Plus where I live companies are held to account for label based claims. So sounds like a US problem tbh.

So you have small children and both parents are working? Notice the plurals. We found with one baby it’s easy enough however the moment we both went to work and even more so with two babies it was impossible extra workload. Out of the friends and families in my circles the ONLY (2 families) that use reusable are the ones with a dedicated stay at home parent. Which is becoming rare more than ever.

const_void,

Unregulated capitalism.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

I cant wait to be arrested for not noticing the napkin dispenser is empty fast enough

_number8_,

there wasn’t even a dispenser lol felt like i was going crazy

DogMuffins,

I’m incredulous.

You’re right in that taco bell wants to maximise profits, but surely the provision of napkins allows them to produce more profit.

I mean a lot of companies are doing a lot of shitty things worthy of criticism, but I don’t think that this is one of them.

SupraMario,

Yes… capitalism…and not consumers who just don’t care.

kattenluik,

Not even that, just a government that doesn’t care.

SupraMario,

A gov is people, if you’re being ruled by your inferiors then it’s time to step up and lead, but people won’t. Easier to bitch. Myself included.

Mr_Blott,

This is by far the biggest problem - most people don’t put up with that shit and will publicly murder a company that tries it on.

It’s just this one country, you know, the one with the guns, that rolls over to get their bellies scratched when the billionaires come knocking

jeebus,
@jeebus@kbin.social avatar

The billionaires are just like us folks, they drive honda civics and sleep in 50k tiny homes next to their rockets.

turkalino,
@turkalino@lemmy.yachts avatar

You’re gonna get a lot of downvotes but people really are too pacified by binge watching Survivor while scrolling through TikTok. People don’t get angry about the shit that matters, not when it’s much easier to be angrier about Star Wars not being good anymore.

oce,
@oce@jlai.lu avatar

It’s both lack of regulation and lack of consumer activism.

Wooki,

const_void fighting the good fight at…checks notes… lack of napkins…….

trash80,

Why is everything in consumer / American life so fucking shitty now

because “consumers” don’t have the self-discipline to quit giving money to businesses who do shitty things

RooPappy,

People need to be willing to suffer small conveniences to send a message to companies, but they aren't. And then they complain that the government should step in, while they constantly elect people who protect business interests and are anti-consumer in the name of "small government."

It's requires at least one or the other... a free market with consumers who drive the demand, or big government. With neither, you end up with constant corporate abuses.

P1r4nha,

How do you prevent misinformation in a free market that misleads your customers? Every problem can be greenwashed away by corporations. Even independent investigative organisations won’t have the resources to really drill down and figure stuff out. Without tax funded government entities I can’t see how they are made responsible.

Every free market will concentrate capital, with that power and with that information and the customers’ ability to make good choices.

user_2345,

“WE” don’t. You all might. Playing my role as a “consumer” I expect a certain level of customer service. If it doesn’t meet my standard, I stop consuming.

If it isn’t meeting your standard, stop.

be_excellent_to_each_other,
@be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

BRB gonna stop buying groceries now.

NegativeLookBehind,
@NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social avatar

Maybe they just didn’t restock the napkins? Dude went to Taco Bell and almost had an aneurysm

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

look at all these comments, they think Taco Bell CEO himself sent down a decree that there will be no napkins.

_number8_,

do you think they’re above doing that

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

yes

Maeve,

I worked at a couple of national franchises fast food places (I refuse to call them restaurants) that specifically said two napkins per visit. We have out more on request, but regional cut the manager’s bonus for it.

MomoTimeToDie,

Cut him some slack. He’s dining in at a taco bell. Not exactly a high point in his life, nor a mark of stability

WashedOver,
@WashedOver@lemmy.ca avatar

It’s a shame so much time has passed for the public to even recall how much Teddy fought for the average Joe blow public with his first deal. He fought the corporate overloads and they couldn’t believe he couldn’t be bribed like those before him and since.

The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life. -Theodore Roosevelt

Maeve,

And he was even a right winger, iirc.

chakan2,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

It’s the natural end for a free market. The big players take over and squeeze every drop of blood they can from the consumer class until the inevitable collapse or B&L buys the government.

all-knight-party,
@all-knight-party@kbin.run avatar

No, there's another ending. J&J buys the government.

Jackthelad,

In fast food restaurants in the UK, you get your own napkins or they give you them on the tray when you collect your food. Or in some other non-fast food restaurants, they will bring napkins with your cutlery after you’ve ordered your food.

This is how it has always been and it’s a slightly strange thing to get upset about.

Red_October,

I think it’s less that we’re expected to sympathize, and more just that they’ve realized enough people will tolerate it. With OP’s example, Taco Bell has clearly decided that whatever business they may lose due to people deciding to not go to Taco Bell anymore because of the lack of napkins will be less than whatever they save by not stocking napkins anymore.

And they’re right.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s a shitty thing to do, but between people in general not realizing that this place doesn’t even have napkins anymore, and people deciding they still want semi-delicious garbage tacos anyway, they’re really not going to see a big dip in revenue. They’ve simply realized that they really can just make their presented experience a little shittier just to save some money.

BananaTrifleViolin,

Well first off have Taco Bell stopped providing napkins? One person couldn't find napkins in one store and suddenly it's greed driven corporate policy according to OP?

It seems unlikely that a food chain would completely abolish napkins. It is possible they're no longer freely available because people were taking them "for their car" whatever that even means!?

Red_October,

Perhaps I should have clarified that for the sake of discussion I was taking OP’s comment at face value, but the essentials are the same either way. Whether it’s a chain-wide declaration that napkins are done, a single store doing away with them, or just a sufficiently casual attitude to restocking them that allowed them to run out in the first place, the math in the end is all the same. They can and will let their service get a little shittier, because they know they’ll save more money than they lose.

satanmat,

Yep.

Corporations have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders. They have to make money. And how much money do they have to earn? MORE.

To grow, they offer good food at a reasonable price. It seems cheaper to put the drink machine out for customers to make their own drinks choices… but then we need those extra pennies, so behind the counter it goes, so customers don’t get free refills… then how can we source cheaper stuff, beef beans etc. there will be c constant demand to squeeze every penny from the system… Bob is making too much; better fsck his schedule until he quits so we can hire Alice as she make only minimum wage.

I’m not sure where napkins fall in the chain but yes the quality likely will continue to spiral down.

There are very few companies who recognize that there is a quality floor they should not go below. Where they acknowledge that we can’t get any worse, but they have to raise prices. And depending on the managers this cycle will continue back and forth

sunbrrnslapper,

Dumb question: did the laws change or was it a change in trends to maximize shareholder returns?

sbv,

There was a cultural shift in the 1970s:

From the end of World War II until the late 1970s, a retain-and-reinvest approach to resource allocation prevailed at major U.S. corporations. They retained earnings and reinvested them in increasing their capabilities, first and foremost in the employees who helped make firms more competitive.

See …law.harvard.edu/…/so-long-to-shareholder-primacy…

nitefox,

Why did that change?

sbv,

I think it was a self-beneficial fad. All the rich shareholders think it’s a great idea, as do many on boards (since the shareholders elect them), so it becomes dogma. All fads eventually lose their shine, as this one is.

But I’m neither an economist, nor a historian, so take my guess with a big grain of salt.

cerpa,

A shift in corporate mindset to maximize growth and profit. Go research Jack Welsh.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/part-one-jack-welch-is-why-you-got-laid-off/id1373812661?i=1000612309266

satanmat,

Not at all is that a dumb question.

See the other comments.

It is much more cultural than anything else.
As the stock market moved from buy and hold for the long term to the more manic trading we see today where shit like robinhood allows everyone to trade options

Couplqnd,

Can we stop with the myth that “corporations/board members have a fiduciary duty to share holders for maximum profit”

It’s not true and never has been! It’s just some bullshit that was said in the 80s that sounds good but has no basis in reality

ElleChaise,

I mean, they do though? I'm totally against that, but hear me out: if we infiltrated for instance, and tried to do the opposite approach of only screwing the shareholders while providing maximum value to workers and consumers, we wouldn't last long enough to bring it to a vote at the corrupted board. If you don't provide a solid plan on how you're gonna fuck consumers in the coming quarter, they won't even let you stay on as CEO. It's literally not possible to do good in this system, you can either not participate and keep getting fucked as consumers/workers, or you can trade class and provide value for shareholders, there is no in between anymore. The only option that will change this without another Teddy, is revolution. Hopefully a peaceful one.

redballooon,

According to your statement there must be someone getting fucked. An trade where all parties are satisfied does not seem possible.

TheMongoose,

Isn't that because at the root of greed is the inability to be satisfied? Why don't billionaires, when they have literally money beyond avarice, more than they could possibly spend in a thousand lifetimes, just say "nope, I don't need any more, everything else I earn can go to charity"?

But they don't. They get richer. And despite the public image of them, they'll still try and screw the regular workers out of as many toilet breaks as they can get away with in order to maximise how much they earn.

It's almost beyond evil.

redballooon,

I think that’s two different things. Billionaires can and do get continuously richer also when there are napkins in a restaurant to satisfy customers.

Actually, satisfied customers are return customers, which every businessman knows are the best customers. Amazon certainly knows that. The reason why Amazon is so succesful is because they focus intensely on customer satisfaction. They’re fucking their employers, yes, but they wouldn’t need to. They just do because the regulations allow for it.

satanmat,

No?

As long as upper level management receives bonuses based on share price, and the board reenforces that…

The stock market is a voting machine not a weighing machine.

I simply disagree Management generally must keep increasing ARPU average revenue per user or else the market punishes the stock price

Couplqnd,

What? Everything you just said has nothing to do with fiduciary duty.

The reason the board acts that way is because of this myth. Also many companies have nothing to do with APRU. The stock market is not just Tech stocks and crypto.

tygerprints,

Those fucking ghouls at Taco Bell, not providing us napkins! What a deprived nation we are. I had to wipe my face with a tree stump! You can't get straws or drink lids anymore either at some restaurants. After all, the CEOS might have to forego an extra frog leg at dinner if they started providing us with napkins or straws for FREE.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

oh no, OP had to ask for napkins. Consumers are treated shitty because you are shitty.

tygerprints,

Well it is really dumb that, in a fast food restaurant (the high probability that you're going to be eating in your car) they don't even provide napkins or straws anymore. Yes we're a spoiled country of brats, but who wants to see a bunch of bratty entitled people with taco bell grease all over their upturned noses?? I ask you.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

I ask you to go to any fast food place, order some food, and ask for a napkin, then come back and tell me you were being a lunatic making up a crisis. For gods sake you people think there's low napkin alarms in the dispensers?

tygerprints,

Well I'm not sure what the anger is for or what your point is. I'm sure most fast food places would give your napkins if you ask and it's not being a "lunatic" to ask companies to provide basic utensils in a fast food restaurant. Just the opposite in fact.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

they don't even provide napkins or straws anymore

I repeat, go to any fast food place, order some food, and ask for a napkin.

tygerprints,

And what will that prove. You still haven't answered that.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

That you are provided with a napkin

tygerprints,

My argument was not about whether you could get napkins by asking for one. My argument is, if you're going to open a god-damn fast food place, you better have the fucking decency to provide basic eating utensils such as napkins and straws, or else you can forget my business. You can't tell me these places can't "afford" to provide napkins and dispensers, that's bullshit.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

My argument was not about whether you could get napkins by asking for one.

no, it was about being provided one. So go to taco bell, order some food, and ask for one, and then come back and tell me that they provided you with napkins.

tygerprints,

After you eat shit and grow some sort of brains out of the manure that's left. YOU go to taco bell and try not to be mistaken for a pile of manure left on the floor, good luck with than one.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

you aint gonna do it cus you know you're just gonna be walking out of taco bell with some napkins, and you and OP are full of it.

tygerprints,

Well you're the expert on being full of shit so, I have to agree that you are indeed full of shit.

spacecowboy,

Hey pal maybe grow a wrinkle and understand that this isn’t specifically about the fucking napkin.

My god you are dense.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

it's about being overly entitled spoiled kids making life hell for food workers. A napkin dispenser wasnt filled fast enough and someone's got the fury of a righteous crusader against them now.

spacecowboy,

No, it’s about enshittification of everything so that rich people can get even more rich.

I know it’s hard to think about complex ideas but maybe keep your mouth shut if you are out of your depth.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

you guys are lunatics thinking the corporate board has mandated a new policy of no more napkins. So now you get to go to taco bell and come back and tell me you were easily able to get some napkins.

spacecowboy,

Please refer to the last part of my previous comment to you, and then fuck off.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

OP comes in with a claim and all of his defenders refuse to do the barest minimum of proving it. Because all of you know it's bullshit.

Maeve,

As I said, I worked for two franchises that specified two napkins only. We gave more on request but the managers didn’t get their bonuses.

NoIWontPickaName,

You sound fun

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

Im the guy on the receiving end of bullshit like you and OP.

NoIWontPickaName,

You really need a new job if this one is making you act this way. Somewhere other than Taco Bell.

SnotFlickerman,

You load 16 tons, what do you get?

Another day older and deeper in debt

St. Peter, don’t you call me 'cause I can’t go

I owe my soul to the company store

bionicjoey,

Much as I love that song, it doesn’t really apply to the OP question, which is more about companies exploiting their customers rather than their workers.

SnotFlickerman,

Workers are consumers.

tygerprints,

That's how our economy works, how it's always worked. Get on the hamster wheel and don't stop for 45 years but take breaks to spend what little money have to keep you in enough debt to stay on the hamster wheel for 45 years.

grabyourmotherskeys,

That is what people miss. This is “the system”. It starts and ends with government and “we” chose this (I’m Canadian, we have similar issues but not as extreme, yet).

By continually voting in sociopathic narcissistic social climbers as both public and private sector policy makers (think of shareholders and corporate governance boards) we ensure the system is rigged for the top dogs.

The truth is the system could work in the average person’s favour very easily but it would mean limiting some personal freedoms; mostly of very, very rich people. It also would require the average person to get off the “everyone is exploiting me, so I need to do that to them first” treadmill.

Many people have never been on that treadmill (never had the chance or donate excess income or time to local food banks, etc).

The very, very rich don’t care. They simply maximize the profit in any situation. Put them in prison and they’ll give out legal advice for cigarettes and turn that into a burner phone they use to call their Cayman Islands broker.

It’s the upper/upper-middle people who will feel the pain as income is redistributed to poverty stricken people. And if we just impose ubi without fixing the “CEO problem” it will simply lead to inflation. Sucess of ubi programs is entirely due to it happening in a local market. Expand globally without fixing capitalism and you get inflation.

A socialist approach that still allows significant room for upwrd mobility (e.g. CEO can make up to 10x minimum wage, as a non-expert guess) with some type of employee representation on the board of large businesses (state imposed labour union) would probably do it.

Then make ubi contingent on minor public service with free daycare that you can use when performing said services (exception if you have more than 2 kids under 12, or are disabled in some way) say two days a week (networking, activity, build resume) would be a brainstorming idea to workshop.

kent_eh,

And it seems that “our corporate masters” don’t understand that underpaid or laid off people don’t have the purchasing power to buy more stuff.

In their relentless pursuit of profits, they are killing off the ability of people to be customers.

nitefox,

Just give em a subscription then!

Maeve,

They don’t even give them 50% of meals anymore, for a full shift.

PeleSpirit,

I think what a lot of people are saying is that they do both, exploit their customers and their workers.

jhulten,

And at least in food, it’s the same eight companies that own everything…

Zorg,

In a lot of towns your only grocery option is Walmart, unless you wanna drive 1+ hours. In small towns/villages you might only have a dollar general within that distance. Large corporation slaughter small businesses when they move in.

kent_eh,

See also The Walmart effect

Wootz,

I think what this comment is trying to say is that we’re headed towards an age that resembles what that song talks about: An age of unfettered capitalism, with a small number of corporation owning so much of the market that they can do what they want with no repercussions.

bionicjoey,

Okay but that song is from like a century ago and mostly things haven’t changed much in that time. Certainly we don’t have company stores/scrip anymore, but the grim outlook that song has on the world is still fairly accurate.

jandar_fett,

Bro. We are already there. The tobacco industry sued Australia for fighting to keep graphic pictures and descriptions of lung disease/cancer on cigarette packs and WON. Against the entire fucking government of Australia.

TimewornTraveler,

the song is about debt bondage from last century lol look up Company Towns

feedum_sneedson,

16 napkins

TimewornTraveler,

the song was about company towns where the laborers were paid in store credit instead of wages. you’d work, but never pay off debts, since it all went back to the companies who set the prices for everything you buy, and so they were able to keep you on a tight leash.

That’s how it feels like things are going now. a few companies own everything, pay our wages, and set our prices. we cannot get ahead.

Crackhappy,
@Crackhappy@lemmy.world avatar

I love Joe Vs. The Volcano (where this song is featured) because it really encapsulates the idea of the song.

Nemo,

So don’t shop there! They’ll do the bare minimum that still brings people in; the only remedy is to show them they’ll lose customers.

Jiggle_Physics,

Wile this is something that can be generally applied to fast food restaurants, this is a problem with basically all industries, many of which exist in a space where their customers are stuck with them. EG a lot of people are stuck with walmart because they are often literally the only place around or the only place around people on the lower half of income can afford.

netburnr,
@netburnr@lemmy.world avatar

Same with those dollar stores. They come into poor areas and drive out the small local grocers, then you get a worse product and it’s your only choice.

Jiggle_Physics,

Yes, they also work in a fashion where they don’t truly step on the toes of walmart, lest they also be crushed.

blanketswithsmallpox,

For the masses Dollar General is not a dollar store. That place blows.

Dollar Tree is the closest large chain that still adheres to cheap as fuck goods but the quality is super shit as expected often with quantity reduced to essentially match regular goods when bought in bulk anyway.

Family Dollar next best with discounts but not great.

Dollar General is often more expensive than regular stores.

folkrav, (edited )

I’m in Canada. I’d love to be able to say I can totally ditch Maxi or Super C and stop supporting Loblaws and the Weston family, or Metro or Sobeys, but that would mean choosing either buying shittier produce from one of the large discount alternatives (Walmart, Super C, or similar) meaning I’d be encouraging another of those large super vertically integrated grocery chains that are driving up cost regardless, or accepting to pay 1.5x the price for all of my groceries.

Fresh produce I can get for not too expensive from farmer’s markets while in season, but for the rest, I have to choose between expensive local grocery, expensive grocery chain, or budget grocery chains that are owned by one of the expensive chains anyway.

jubilationtcornpone,

My local grocery chain is a lot better quality than Walmart in some respects. But, the price tag is usually much steeper. Thank God for Aldi’s.
I like to support the little guy when possible but when it makes your monthly grocery bill $1,200 instead of $900, that’s a tough pill to swallow. That $300 wouldn’t necessarily break the bank for me but it’s a lot of money to a lot of people.

This is also a big reason that many Americans have poor nutrition. Processed junk food is cheaper than healthy food. Presenting better lifestyle or diet “choices” is an illusion when you have to have money to make those choices.

rtxn,

It’s past Thanksgiving and I don’t even celebrate it, but I’m so fucking thankful to live in a European suburb. There is a small general store just down the street, two bakeries, a butcher, a car mechanic, a tire service shop, a bike service shop, two schools, two playgrounds, and too many smaller businesses to count. All within ten minutes on foot. Also three stops for six bus lines, safe sidewalks, and safe bicycle paths, so basically /c/fuckcars’s wet dream.

Maeve,

Even they are pricy, once the competition is quashed.

SnotFlickerman,

More importantly, don’t work there. Giving your labor to these businesses is just as bad, if not worse as spending your money there.

teawrecks,

These are both really easy sentiments to have. In the real world, we eat the food we can afford and work wherever will hire us.

sbv,

100% this. Lots of people don’t have options.

Rentlar,

This is why we need UBI stat if we want to reverse this trend. People everywhere are being backed into corners by the unaffordability of everything and their desperation is being exploited by places like Taco Bell, Dollar General, Walmart, Amazon and is effectively forcing people to panhandle and do crime. By having the leeway to look past how the heck you’re going to feed and take care of yourself and people close to you, it opens up opportunities that the middle class takes for granted and things that weren’t even a question to the upper and elite classes.

Nemo,

“the food we can afford” is not descriptive of Taco Bell

Neve8028,

Dude. Have you been to taco bell? You can get a well over 2000 calorie meal for like $15

Nemo,

And you can do that much more healthfully for a third of the price cooking at home.

Maeve,

The problem then becomes a lack of shelter, in addition to quality clothing and quality food.

blazera,
@blazera@kbin.social avatar

those greedy bastard taco bell employees

PerogiBoi,
@PerogiBoi@lemmy.ca avatar

That’s the end result of a capitalist system once corporations have superseded governments in power. It will only get worse.

morgan_423,
@morgan_423@lemmy.world avatar

Yeah, we may be at checkmate. Unlike the end of the age of the robber barons, when we reformed capitalism in the late 1800s / early 1900s in the US… this time the capitalists have purchased enough politicians to stop reform completely and forever.

SnotFlickerman, (edited )

What’s funny is that this is entirely unsustainable. If they were in any way a real “capitalist” they would realize that the creeping authoritarianism they’re pushing destroys economies long-term. They’re laughing all the way to the bank right now because they’re not concerned with the future.

However, they should be, because this House of Cards can easily collapse with the right push. They literally can’t see past the profits at the end of the next quarter.

They literally can’t imagine that all of them choosing to undermine capitalist principles at the same time will result in capitalism failing completely. The only reason it even functioned as well as it did for so long was 1. regulation and 2. raping the third world for resources.

I mean, I’m a fucking leftist, and it makes me feel like I’m taking crazy pills that things are so far gone that I’m actually arguing “if we’re going to do capitalism, we may as well do it in a way that it actually functions properly” as if that is a fucking fringe idea here.

The wheels are about to fly off this fuckin turkey.

chakan2,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

Unfortunately their house of cards is built on a foundation of wealth…and not just fuck you money, but literal centuries of fuck you money.

The fortune 50 I worked for could literally stop doing all business and maintain their current spend for a century and still be solvent.

This isn’t unstable at all…it’s built to last for 100s of years…the current leaders to their grandkids will be safe.

To further that…the 1% have private armies and well stocked bunkers to ride out any social uprising. That’s the really scary stuff.

We are all fucked though. Enjoy the hunger games.

jandar_fett,

Those armies are going to want to be paid and that’ll be hard to do once currency has no meaning. If we are going to go that route. As a matter of fact, a bunch of the 1% have recently had meetings with “experts” on ways to keep their hired mercenaries from turning on them once things truly collapse.

chakan2,
@chakan2@lemmy.world avatar

once currency has no meaning.

You really think those bunkers are filled with cash Scrooge McDuck style? They’ll have food, guns, and likely lots of gold. They’ll also very likely be sustainable.

Keeping the mercs fed and happy is a trivial thing.

pensivepangolin,

Yep! And their short-sighted greed is going to drive us right to the brink of annihilation. We’re staring down the barrel of environmental collapse and our leaders are generally either old enough they assume they’ll die before it gets “that bad,” and the others stupidly think money makes them immune to the destruction of the biosphere. Anyone under 50 right now is going to live through some incredibly dark times. We are all dogs in a car with the windows closed and the heater on in a Texas parking lot. Business as usual is going to get really ugly, really quickly, really soon.

SnotFlickerman,

The car’s on fire and there’s no driver at the wheel

And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides

And a dark wind blows

The government is corrupt

And we’re on so many drugs

With the radio on and the curtains drawn

We’re trapped in the belly of this horrible machine

And the machine is bleeding to death

The sun has fallen down

And the billboards are all leering

And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles

It went like this:

The buildings tumbled in on themselves

Mothers clutching babies picked through the rubble

And pulled out their hair

The skyline was beautiful on fire

All twisted metal stretching upwards

Everything washed in a thin orange haze

I said: “kiss me, you’re beautiful -

These are truly the last days”

You grabbed my hand and we fell into it

Like a daydream or a fever

We woke up one morning and fell a little further down -

For sure it’s the valley of death

I open up my wallet

And it’s full of blood

cloud,

We are all dogs in a car with the windows closed and the heater on in a Texas parking lot.

except you are human and not a dog and you could take care of the problem with any kind of weapon but you chose not to do anything out of convenience

azulavoir,

I wish this were true but good guys with guns are pretty easily stopped by megacorps with security staff

nilloc,

And the politicians with police.

cloud,

number of people in the world > megacorps and security stuff

Sciaphobia, (edited )

Sure, but that’s not the end stage of the thought experiment. It’s not really even the start. How exactly is this larger group of people supposed to enact any viable change? I think we could agree that seems unlikely to be possible in an unorganized/uncoordinated manner. The solution to that is to get organized and coordinate, right?

Well what does that look like? That could take nearly as many forms as people you ask to agree - so you’d need an idea that enough people would fall behind to still out number. Once that is achieved… What? If the goal of the burgeoning group is violent revolution, they won’t get very far into the planning phase before being scooped up by security forces in some form or another. If the goal is nonviolent revolution, such as refusal to work, the system is constructed in such a way that those you would need to participate have a lot to lose, and little ability to withstand a protected protest/encounter/whatever, vs, presumably, a group that could easily outlast all of those things, as well as their children, and their children’s children.

That’s not to say nothing can work, but I think it might be just a bit reductive to suggest that things are as simple as suggesting it is total apathy in those who would need to unite to accomplish these goals that explains why the goals aren’t striven towards.

yanyuan,

I think really rich people do think in long terms / generations and aim for a feudal system, which can be stable (like in the middle ages).

However, I personally don’t think that a feudal world with nukes will be stable very long.

I also think, that many rich people overestimate their amount of control in a totalitarian country (despite billionaires already disappeareing in China and falling out of windows in Russia).

kent_eh,

That’s the thing, though, they don’t care about the future. They only want to maximize today’s profits.

Tomorrow is someone else’s problem.

I don’t know how to solve this problem without a massive peiod of hardship for everyone until the societal parasites finally feel the pain , but the cause is pretty obvious.

umbrella,

what future?? why would they think of anything long term?

they are cashing in while earth can still support human life.

cloud,

Money can be an addiction. billionares are basically junkies with mental problems, do not expect them to follow any sense or logic

jandar_fett,

Thank you! I’ve been reading the responses and many of them hit the mark, but yours is the only one mentioning the sbortsightedness of it all. My brother and I have had many conversations about this subject and agree that part of it has to be some kind of collective brain misfire for the lack of a better phrase, that happens to organisms that get to the level we’re at, since everything that we build moves faster than evolution will allow our brains to adapt to, and while we see all of this as a mistake we’ve made or a small subset of us being greedy and upsetting the apple cart, I posit that it is just our species finally reaching a bottleneck that all species eventually face. We just artificially pushed the ceiling further and further upward so we didn’t see it. I think we are starting to see it though and it’s unlikely that we can do anything to stop from hitting it now.

Daft_ish,

This goes back to the original sin. It’s stupid to be evil and greedy. The latter is the foundation is their entire ideology is built on the former is the mortar holding together the bricks of other people’s labor their house is built on.

Coasting0942,

we may as well do it in a way that it actually functions properly" as if that is a fucking fringe idea here

Yes, CIA, this post right here.

CarbonIceDragon,
@CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social avatar

Uh, didn’t the rich rather famously buy political influence back then as well?

morgan_423,
@morgan_423@lemmy.world avatar

Yes, but not at the same scale. They’ve become masters at it in the modern age.

SnotFlickerman,

It helps that the field of psychology has come a long way, and it helps further that being a psychologist to help people pays peanuts, but being a psychologist who helps write ad campaigns to make sure the ads have the most psychological impact pressuring people to buy pays big bucks.

NOT_RICK,
@NOT_RICK@lemmy.world avatar

I dunno, from what I’ve read about political machines in the gilded age it was really just as bad back then.

rambaroo,

People worked 12 hour shifts 6 days a week back then with no minimum wage. A lot of people lived in company towns and didn’t even get paid in real money. Child labor was legal and widespread, although some shit hole states are getting back to that.

Things are bad now but anyone who thinks it’s as bad as it was in the gilded age is either delusional or extremely ignorant. There’s a reason the progressive era happened, people were pushed beyond their limits and propaganda couldn’t make up for that anymore.

Godric,

Hey man, the FTC is doing anti-trust like nobody’s business for the first time since gods-know-when. It’s not a silver bullet, but it’s progress for the first time in forever!

jandar_fett,

Time to sharpen the guillotines again…

feedum_sneedson,

Certainly the end result of financialised capital.

TokenBoomer,

Only 45 upvotes, Lemmy be slipping.

sbv,

We’re slowly hemorrhaging users. Pretty much all of us upvoted it.

TokenBoomer,

I have noticed. Imma post even harder now. /s

sbv,

POST HARDER!

(I’ve been posting hard for a while. It gets a bit dispiriting tbh)

bmsok,

I’d love to see a rise in quality OC. Migrating and reposting content isn’t always the answer.

Other platforms have an undeniable wealth of knowledge and a history that’s over a decade long.

That doesn’t mean we can’t make something great out of this. I just know that I’m not the best content producer.

DrQuickbeam,

I mean, hypothetically. That is the end result of the neoliberal, or late capitalism economic philosophy if applied on a model. But economic systems in practice are never the philosophy, and are only there in the first place to support the governance of a nation state. I spend half my time in Italy, for example, where the laws protect both the big international brands and the mom and pop shops.

My point is that we are the citizens that make up the government that designs the governance rules for our nation-state. Capitalism is not a government, or people, or the entire story when it comes to commerce and trade systems. We can shape it and use it, like any other framework.

Likewise, regardless of your economic system, greedy people will try to accumulate power, bend the rules to benefit themselves, and extend those benefits across borders if they can. Powerful egos will warp people and rules around them like gravity. All governance systems that strive to be just, collaborative and promote the quality of life of all its citizens have to both put strong rules in place to check the power-hungry, and constantly monitor and adapt to keep them in check.

CurlyWurlies4All,
@CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net avatar

“…we are the citizens that make up the government that designs the governance rules for our nation-state.”

No we’re not. We only have the illusion of control where we are allowed to vote on how to tinker with the outer edges of a system that is in reality controlled by 0.1% of the population.

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