when will be your last time to vote for the "lesser of two evils"?
When will be your “this is the last fucking time I’m voting for the ‘lesser of two evils’, then I don’t care after that, let this country burn to the ground”? For me, this is basically it. This is last election I’m going for that " lesser of two evils" bullshit. After that I’m done. It’s just pointless. Let’s hear it.
The worst thing that happened to your country since WW2 was fighting and winning the cold war. The outright rejection of anything even slightly left of centre as communism!!! has destroyed your democracy.
Add in non compulsory voting and I have no idea how you change it.
This is exactly what fucked us. You breathe next to some idiots and you’re a “communist”. What’s sad is that they don’t even know how to fucking define “communism” or whatever they call you. You ask for fair wages for workers? You’re a communist/socialist. You ask for free/affordable healthcare college? Fuck you you fucking communist. And so on. They just throw it around.
Being real, it wasn’t the cold war that fucked us. Jim Crow fucked us. Hundreds of years of slavery and racism ruined us. Everything post cold war you’re thinking of goes back to the divide that wants to keep black people down. The side that wants that also wants to keep the gays and women in their place too, but they want the blacks back in their fucking cotton fields first.
When the racists had a setback during the civil rights era, they hid. Everyone else thought they would die off and that was that. But then the southern strategy was enacted, and the fuckers started undoing things slow enough that it didn’t look as bad as it was. Between the racists hiding, and the oligarchs buying anyone they could off, we got to where we are now. In danger of civil war, and with no will on one side to fight it.
I am glad you can keep the faith and keep voting but I also understand the OP's (and a lot of other american's) ennui.
When it seems the Dems biggest selling point is "Well, at least we are not the GOP" but have little or no actual policies to enrich the lives of the people who vote for them it must be very disheartening for millions of your average citizens when their options are terrible or more of the same with no real improvement.
That’s the thing though, Democrats have superb policies to enrich the lives of people who vote for them, but they fucking suck at selling it.
Joe Biden’s Inflation Reduction Act, for example, is forecasted to create . Not to mention, investments in renewable energy help modernize American infrastructure in a variety of ways, and do something or another about U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. And it does more than that! Honestly, the IRA is a huge deal.
And what do people hear? Fox News anchors talking about Bidenomics and high inflation, how his fiscal policy is only destroying America and putting us further into debt. And the Heritage Foundation and AEI.org have economists that present their free market analysis that necessarily demonizes all government “interference” in markets, making it impossible for people to see any value in anything Biden is doing.
And the more liberal media just like…not…doing anything at all. They just play into boring as culture wars, giving fodder to right-wing fools, and convincing normal Americans that the left is removed from reality. The sheer lack of policy discussion on liberal media channels does a disservice to everyone really. It even leaves Biden supporters unable to say what good he’s done.
Possibly controversial opinion, the left needs a Fox News. A station that just unapologetically pushes liberal talking points and pays newsworthiness the same lip service that Fox does. Fuck this holier than thou bullshit we've got going on; fight propaganda with better propaganda.
That then lets the least worse option have no actual policies, make zero substantive change while in office because they know you will always vote for them.
But that is more about FPTP voting and the two party system.
Not my fuckin problem. Y’all want my support, put up someone who doesn’t support genocidal states, apartheid policy, or fossil fuels; til then, death to your country
That’s fair. I’m just trying to say, consider how you direct that resentment. It might be far healthier in the long run to limit how much you consume news media, rather than swearing off voting
You’re going to be worse than sick of it all when through action or inaction, you allow a proven authoritarian to take power. Then, you will no longer HAVE a choice and you think the government sucks now? You’ve got a rude awakening on the horizon.
Maybe we NEED shit to get majorly worse so people can actually take action and make the change they need themselves? I feel like people are getting complacent with the Democrats’ bullshit argument of “hey, look at us, we are a teeny meeny bit better than the other guys. See? Aaaahhhh. Now stfu and vote for us and be thankful”. I feel like this is their way of not doing much, and doing very little to look better than the other fuckers.
You’re not making sense. You’re “sick of it all” so you want to make things catastrophically worse. It’s at best an ill-considered position, at worst one might think you are spreading a terrible idea on purpose.
Your vote matters just as much as everyone else’s. So you’re saying nobody’s vote matters? Clearly that’s not the case. Unless there’s something special about your vote compared to everyone else’s. I understand what you’re getting at, but the conclusion that you shouldn’t vote is flawed.
Your vote doesn’t decide the election on its own. Does that mean it doesn’t matter? Absolutely not.
Your vote matters just as much as everyone else’s.
Unless you live in non-swing state in which case your vote literally means nothing as you’re a minority voter for at least the next 30 years. Even then, the vote of someone in a state with a small population gives more of a share of electoral college votes than a populous state. Plus the whole 2 senators a state thing etc etc.
Your whole position is flawed. You’re reversing the responsibility of ensuring people get to vote. Politicians are well paid professionals whose entire job is to ensure that their political plans come to fruition. Blaming some doomer online for the failures of the party is completely missing the point.
Look dude we’re both insufferable, let’s stay on topic
If you believe your vote doesn’t matter, then you believe nobody’s vote matters. Clearly that’s not true. I get that voting for the less popular candidate won’t win the election for you. Boo hoo. Don’t conflate “losing the election” with “not mattering” though.
If you believe your vote doesn’t matter, you either believe:
all votes are not equal (within a given election) or
DING DING DING! One hand washes the other, the Overton Window ratchets to the right with no pushback from the democrats, and this was ALL rigged from the start to ensure the settlers never had to give up the power they stole, raped, murdered, and genocided for. The problem is, you can never accept this answer; because it would mean confronting the difficult idea that everything you were ever taught as a child in the west was a fucking lie, meant to keep you thoughtlessly benefiting off their system.
And since you are benefiting, and have been benefiting for so long, you’ll do any thing, and throw any one under the bus to keep those benefits pouring. I don’t even know why I’m wasting the electrons when I know you’re just going to posture like the insufferable liberal smuggard you’ve come off as thus far, I’m going to ache for the death of your country and the falsehoods your leaders claim as morals, and we’ll both have gotten nowhere but closer to the heat death of the universe-- or maybe just the climate apocalypse that your leaders seem hellbent on ignoring as we sail right past 2C this year. 25 years ahead of schedule.
If you believe your vote doesn’t matter, you either believe: all votes are not equal (within a given election).
Yeah, like I explained in my original comment in great detail exactly how and why certain votes are not equal.
I struck a nerve with the redditor comment considering you responded to that 4 word sentence but not the paragraph explaining basic American Electoral structure.
Your vote matters just as much as everyone else’s.
That is mathematically not true, the electoral college exists. Also, the candidate with less votes than their opponent has won 1/3 of US elections in the 21st century. So even if the voters go out and vote, there is a 1/3 chance the person that gets the most votes will lose the election in modern US politics.
Fuckers learned nothing from 2016 and want us to skip merrily down their spiral of ignorance and evil right along with them, ignoring the evidence of our eyes the entire way
I dunno, pretty much my entire life it’s been choosing between degrees of evil in one party and degrees of capitalist greed sucking from another. None of the alternative parties have fielded a candidate I could support either, but that’s not the point
The point is that there aren’t two evil parties. There’s one of those, and one other party that’s full of shit, but not evil. Then there’s a bunch that are just useless because we have a first past the post system. Not that any of them are exactly bastions of goodness, even the ones that are closer to my views. They’re all fucking politicians. Never fully trust anyone that wants that kind of power and authority.
But, let’s be clear here. There’s only one party that literally courts neo-nazi votes and works to undo not only legal rights, but human rights.
Vote for useful things and voting reform at the local level.
Vote for whatever keeps the system itself functioning at the federal level. If one party's leaders are in bed with "presidents for life" or the authoritarian governments that were ratfucked to make them presidents for life, you are going to end up with a president for life.
Important to note: If enough states enact voting reform at the local level, you no longer need a constitutional amendment to have voting reform that influences the federal level. If you are looking for real change, this is where it is. It is slow and unsexy, but don't bitch about your federal vote meaning nothing if you're not doing anything with your local elections.
Don’t say that, you’re going to be chased out very soon by the “fall in line” mob. They’re fucking worse than Republicans. If you don’t fall in line, they’ll eat you alive.
I’m with you penguin. I’ll vote for neoliberalism to fend off fascism, but having to vote for genocide in another country to fend off fascism in America is a bitter pill. Biden has year to make amends though, he may turn it around. But he lost a lot of voters over Gaza.
It always has been, and always will be, voting for the lesser evil. That's because of the voting system. Single vote, winner take all. Push for ranked choice or some other vote system. Then we can learn if it's turtles (evil) all the way down.
Then we can learn if it's turtles (evil) all the way down.
@DeweyOxberger well, as someone who voted to change the electoral system and got what I wanted (the country changed to Mixed Member Proportional voting aka MMP, I can report from the other side...
He's a populist centrist and a bit of a troll, and he has managed to position himself politically in such a way that waiting for Winston to hammer out deals so we can find out who the government is, is a pretty normal here.
We're waiting right now for him in fact. The party with the most votes can't govern without him.
Any reasonable electoral system will consistently elect people who represent something close to the average will of all the voters. Sounds like the system is working correctly.
But it is a quirk that there have been times when almost half the voters voted for either left or centre left, almost half the voters voted for right or centre right, and then we wait around for weeks while Winston (who only got 6% or whatever) decides which half should get to govern.
Same principle as swing states I guess. It's just amusing that it's always the same specific person, especially given his personality.
The great thing about MMP is the proportionality often has a moderating effect. It annoys me when the left are in power (Winston won't let the Green Party get their way on some things) but it feels like a saving grace when the right wing are in power (Winston will also not let the neoliberal libertarians get their way on some things). So it's working as intended.
In 2020 I voted 3rd party. No illusion of them winning I just wanted to vote in a way that could help demonstrate to the 2 parties that there’s a important segment of Americans that they’re overlooking.
If a third party gets enough of a percentile where they could decide if Reps or Dems win we might see them adapt to have policies that cater closer to the desires of that third party.
But what’s more important is your local elections. The president is much less important in your life than your governor or mayor is.
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