So, on pronouns.

I have a few questions on how to best behave to be as welcoming and inclusive as possible without sounding bad. I hope you guys don’t hate me.

I’m just a straight male. Are my pronouns he/him? Is that how I should tell people? Do you actually tell them as you meet them ? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue ?

How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?

And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out ? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them ? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?

I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?

I’d love some help with all of this.

JackbyDev,

Getting someone’s pronouns wrong once really isn’t too big of a deal. What’s more important is how you react to being corrected and using what they ask you to going forward.

I still don’t know a good way to ask people their pronouns. Or rather I haven’t had to do it often so I don’t have much practice still so I still feel weird. Sometimes I get nervous that asking someone their pronouns might even make them feel like they don’t pass as the gender they want to present as. I’ve talked about this with people and the advice I’ve been given is that the best way to do it is to introduce yourself with your own pronouns. I still haven’t really had much opportunity to do it so not sure how to make it flow conversationally but the idea is that you’re giving everyone the opportunity to do the same plus it lets them know that you won’t react poorly to hearing someone tell you their pronouns.

I’ve really only met one person who prefers they/them and a couple of she/they folks. The trans people I have met all pass well enough in my brain that I don’t have to consciously try to use the correct pronoun. It just takes some effort to get used to.

Back in, say, 2016 or so there was a meme about “did you just assume my gender?” It was always a caricature and it seems like most people either want you to assume it or are okay if you get it wrong so long as you correct yourself once they correct you.

robot_dog_with_gun,

I still don’t know a good way to ask people their pronouns.

in-person you can do this by offering yours when introduced. this protects binary trans people trying to use cultural indicators of gender from some abuse and normalizes the practice for non-conforming people, nicely resolving the competing accessibility needs of people trying to use existing gender norms and people outside them.

online you can ask your admin to do what hexbear does with display names and ban anyone being shitty about it.

Floey,

I wouldn’t ask someone their pronouns as a conversation opener because it makes some folks uncomfortable. For example a trans person might wonder something like “Do they ask that of everybody? Do I not pass?” if “passing” is something they care about.

It’s better to just correct mistakes when you make them. It’s also just something you’ll pick up automatically talking with people they know, and like here where the hypothetical person’s pronouns are ambiguous you can fall back to they. And when taking to the person themselves you are going to be using you anyway.

Assian_Candor,
@Assian_Candor@hexbear.net avatar

This is why saying your pronouns even if you’re obviously cis is cool and good bc it normalizes it

verdigris,

Pronouns are largely used to refer to people in the third person. As such I will never declare my pronouns because they aren’t for me to use, they’re for other people to use to refer to me. As such they should use whatever pronouns deliver maximal clarity for the listener.

I will respect others’ pronoun preferences because I’m not an asshole, but when people start trying to tell me that I’m being bigoted by not stating my own pronouns, they can fuck off.

FaeDrifter,

Just for another use case, pronouns can help clarify if you prefer to be called sir or ma’am.

I wouldn’t call you a bigot for not having preferred pronouns though, that seems really silly.

olafurp,

If I’m asked then I say my pronoun is his royal highness.

I call others by their cis gender unless either it’s obvious like wearing a dress or corrected. People can choose how they want to be addressed but shouldn’t expect me to know lol.

One extra note on using they them when you don’t know: No, I’m going to assume that the person is not in the 2% of people that look like one gender and aren’t.

bluebadoo,

Pro tip: everyone is they/them until otherwise stated. It sounds counterintuitive until you look at the example of the unknown stranger. You see a jacket left on the back of the a chair, and wonder if the stranger will return. You ask a person nearby, “Do you know who this belongs to? When are they coming back?”

English has always used neutral pronouns for someone unknown to you. We constantly make assumptions about gender based on appearance, and cis people take for granted that our outward appearance matches their gender. My best take on being an ally and inclusive is to default to gender neutral pronouns until someone states it or corrects you.

luthis,

Yep, they/them is the most simple and efficient solution.

Thiakil,

If I’ve never heard anyone else use a specific pronoun for someone new or I otherwise don’t know, I try to use they/them. Otherwise I use what others do.

And if someone does let you know that a person/themselves prefer a specific one, always say thanks (you can’t be sorry for something you didn’t know!) and do your best to remember for next time.

I also try to use genderless terms like “folks” or just “everyone” instead of “guys”

shapis,
@shapis@lemmy.ml avatar

I’ll try to pick up that habit. Thank you. That’s a good suggestion.

MystikIncarnate,

I too, am a straight male. It’s actually pretty easy.

It might be a bit of a faux pas when addressing someone as he/him when they prefer something else. Simply, if the mistake is made, they’ll correct your assumption (I’m sure they get it all the time, it’s not that big of a deal), and tell you their pronouns. Then it’s your task, socially, to respect their wish to be referred to by their pronouns. It might seem awkward to refer to someone directly as “they” or “them”, but it is grammatically correct, it just sounds awkward to our brains because it’s so rarely used as a singular direct pronoun… direct in the way that you’re talking to, or in the presence of that person… but it’s perfectly fine and preferred by your friend/colleague/acquaintance or whatever.

For yourself, if you’re commonly and most comfortably referred to as he/him, then you have two options: 1. ignore it, and people will assume, or 2. put “he/him” in things like your bio/email signature/about me pages and leave it at that. It doesn’t require qualification or context, like “my pronouns are” or something like that, just “he/him” alone in your bio is enough to let people know what you are comfortable with.

Personally, I don’t do anything, I let people assume, because I’m unbothered if someone refers to me as he/him/she/her/they/them. All pronouns for me are fine. I’m most commonly referred to as he/him because it’s the historically “correct” pronouns, but pronouns are more or less irrelevant to me.

And yes, people do, in fact, prefer they/them. I’ve met a few, and it feels awkward at first to say “they”/“them”, but you get used to it.

morphballganon, (edited )

If your friends refer to you as he/him, and you are happy with that, then those are your pronouns. E.g., “this is my friend so-and-so, he went to x college, but you being a y fan won’t bug him” would be someone using he/him pronouns for you.

Mine are he/him. I don’t bother telling people this on profiles, but I am cis and male-presenting, so people meeting me irl always guess my pronouns right.

On introductions: one totally cool option is to suggest introductions, start with introducing yourself and add your pronouns. This will alert others that you are gender-conscious, which will be welcome by queer and queer-friendly people.

Don’t fret over it, in the same way you wouldn’t fret about whether someone is a vegetarian or not. “Would you like some nuggets?” “Oh I’m vegetarian but thanks” “oh ok cool, I’ll remember in the future.”

Likewise, “hey did you like his idea?” “Oh actually I’m a they/them” “oh ok, I’ll remember in the future.”

Lettuceeatlettuce,

First off, thanks for asking and wanting to be more inclusive! :)

For your pronouns, you decide. If you typically go by “he/him” you can keep doing that, it’s up to you.

Depending on the setting, people around you might all introduce themselves with their prefered pronouns, you can introduce yourself with your pronouns if you wish to whenever though.

Similar to how you might tell people a different name you prefer to go by. So if your given name was Nicholas but you prefere to go by “Nick,” you might introduce yourself like, “Nice to meet you, I’m Nicholas, but just call me Nick.” likewise, you can say something like, “Nice to meet you, I’m Nick, He/Him”

Online, it’s fairly common now to have your pronouns in your profile or bio. Again, it’s up to you if you want to put them in your bio or not. Some sites have actual places in the sign up screen or profile page to place your pronouns, it depends on the site/software.

It’s rare for people to get offended IRL if you unintentionally mis-gender them. Most people will correct you politely in the same way they might if you called them by an incorrect name. So if you said, “Hey Nicholas, how are your classes going this semester?” they might say, “Oh, you can just call me Nick. Classes are going well so far, how about yours?”

Often people that know them will correct you politely too if you don’t know and used the wrong pronouns. I’ve had it happen a few times over the years and everybody has always been very polite about it. I just quickly say, “oh sorry, my bad.” and then just make sure to remember their pronouns going forward.

I personally have some family and friends that use they/them vs she/her or he/him. It’s a thing for sure, we all support them and their pronouns. It’s not very tough to get used to, and as long as you correct yourself if you make a mistake, nobody will be hurt. It’s fundamentally about loving them and being inclusive and supportive.

shapis,
@shapis@lemmy.ml avatar

Thank you for the comment I added he/him to my bio. Not sure if it’s in the right place.

Lettuceeatlettuce,

No prob, cool deal!

Nath,
@Nath@aussie.zone avatar

Watch Princess Bride. Perfect that “as you wish”. With genuine sincerity.

Perfect. You’ve had a fun movie experience (Inconceivable!) and you now know the perfect way to respond to someone who has asked you or corrected you regarding pronouns.

Agent641,

Its quite important that you remember what the late Michael Jacksons pronouns were. They were He/He

Skkorm,

You kind of don’t have to think about it this much. Someone who cares will tell you their preferred pronouns, in which case you’d say he/him then move on with your day

SnipingNinja,

in which case you’d say he/him

If that’s their preferred pronoun

brygphilomena, (edited )

Yes, basically yours are he/him since you don’t identify as a different gender.

You only tell people if asked. No one will ask, because there isn’t any ambiguity about your gender identity. If you’d like, I’ve seen many straight cisgendered men put he/him in their profiles as support for the community.

Use your best judgement, most people will go by the gender you assume. If someone corrects you, apologize and use the correct pronouns from then on.

I have one friend that transitioned. She’s just a she now. Simple as that.

I have another friend that changed their name. The group I was with was confused on their pronouns, so I just asked them and they told me. Asking what they are shows that you respect them and their decisions.

If you respect people and use the pronouns they request, you shouldn’t go wrong.

stealth_cookies,

Your pronouns are whatever you would like to be referred to. Generally someone would either correct you or you would hear the right ones during conversation to learn someone else’s. If they outwardly present as a specific gender then I would normally assume (or default to they/them) and just apologize and correct if someone corrects me. Most normal people will take such an interaction in stride without further thought.

In terms of online, people often add it to their profile so you know, or to indicate to others that you respect their choice of pronouns.

blindsight,

In terms of online, people often add it to their profile so you know, or to indicate to others that you respect their choice of pronouns.

This is the only reason I show my pronouns in my email signature and in virtual meetings. I think it’s important to normalize that people have and use different pronouns and, as an educator, it’s my responsibility to infuse SOGI (sexual orientation and gender identity) into my practices. Every action, however small, moves the needle.

Come to think of it, I should probably figure out how to do that on Lemmy, since I think there’s display name settings?

wintermute_oregon, (edited )

I don’t tell people my pronouns. I’m male. I look male. I act male.

I appreciate when people are questionable or want to use different pronouns tell.

I equally appreciate when people don’t ask mine.

idiomaddict,

I can’t imagine asking someone, that feels so rude. I just use they/them for most people. I would worry that asking would set any transphobes off while also being a tiny kernel of “I don’t pass” to trans people.

wintermute_oregon,

I hate guessing. Normally it’s obvious.

If it’s questionable. Most will offer unless they’re looking for drama.

I have a client who goes by they. I see I don’t do they. They asked me to use whatever I want they matches how they’re expressing. Perfect. They volunteered it when we met.

I try to accommodate everyone. It’s just manners. I just can do they. I screw it up.

TankieCatgirl,
@TankieCatgirl@hexbear.net avatar

Can you explain what it means to look and act male? And why you don’t like having people ask yours?

wintermute_oregon, (edited )

In 6’2, 225 pounds with about 10% body fat. I look like a man. I act like a man. Nobody has confused me for anything but a man.

It’s rude as it implies I don’t look or act like a man.

It’s why women are drawn to me. As my gf says, I wanted you because you’re all man. My last gf said the same thing.

posthexbearposting, (edited )
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

How you look doesn’t make you a man. You could literally have all those physical traits and be a woman or non-binary.

Why is it rude to confirm how you self identify? Is it that horrible being trans or non-binary that people shouldn’t even confirm that you’re cis? How do you think trans people feel when someone assumes their gender based on how they look?

shitposting___ Wow we got the manliest man man over here! Women love him and he gets all the pussy!

wintermute_oregon,

I explained why troll and don’t use the term cis. It’s offensive. I don’t identify as cis.

Shouldn’t you have asked if I identify as cis or did you just assume I used the term cis?

See how quickly you just violated your own rules you tried to chastise me for?

So go troll somewhere else with your fake concern.

posthexbearposting,
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

Ofc the whinging about cis comes out. You’re cis by the literal definition of the word. Get over it loser.

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wintermute_oregon,

Thank you for validating that you are just a concern troll.

Either people get to self-describe, or they do not. You really don’t believe any of this, you just want to seem ‘concerned’.

posthexbearposting,
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

I’m not concerned. I’m just calling you out for being a moron and a transphobe. Your time will come lib. stalin-gun-1

wintermute_oregon,

I am neither, but you violated your own rules in your first reply. It just shows you’re a concern troll. Why is it that so many people from Hexbear think people won’t see their BS when it’s so obvious? I am neither a moron nor a transphobe. I am consistent, which is something you are not. So you are only here to troll. I will be blocking you now as I can’t be bothered with trolls.

posthexbearposting,
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

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rjs001,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

You’re comment is so obviously the actual troll. Read before you comment such ridiculous things

posthexbearposting,
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

I explained why

saying you’re offended by people not assuming you are a man implies it’s bad to be a different gender, or trans/nb. Idk why you are so scared of people confirming your gender. You are the biggest ❄ on the planet and i cannot wait until you melt.

rjs001,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I think you are the troll. You simply seem like a cis guy who (due to some discomfort) is trying way too hard to ensure everyone knows “I am a CIS MAN”

wintermute_oregon,

Nice Sockpuppet.

I have no discomfort, and thank you for all the baseless personal attacks. Way to go offtopic to prove you are a troll.

rjs001,
@rjs001@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I have 1.9k comments. How many sockpuppets have you seen that have 1.9k comments? Your arguments are just silly

Shinhoshi,
@Shinhoshi@lemmygrad.ml avatar

I don’t identify as cis.

So you’re trans, then?

posthexbearposting, (edited )
@posthexbearposting@hexbear.net avatar

I’m 6’3, 250lbs, 6% bf and non-binary. Also my xad could beat up your dad

MaoWasRight,

I’m sorry. You may be getting it all wrong because right now you just sound like and are acting like a big ol pussy.

wintermute_oregon,

Thanks. You appear to have yourself confused with someone who matters.

TankieCatgirl,
@TankieCatgirl@hexbear.net avatar

Gonna have to call out the misogyny of calling someone a “pussy”.

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