fubo, 9 months ago

I live in a house with three queer/poly people. Around here, people sometimes introduce themselves or others with a note about their pronouns. But if someone doesn’t, it’s okay and either people will pick up the right ones from context, or they will guess and maybe be gently corrected.

“DiD yOu JuSt AsSuMe My GeNdEr??” is not real; it’s an Internet troll parody.

shapis, 9 months ago

That’s a relief.

So just go on about my merry way and if someone corrects me respect their choices ?

fubo, 9 months ago

Yeah. Like if you thought someone’s name was Joe but it was actually Jeff and they tell you that, it’s not a big deal. Just one of those things that sometimes happens if you’re meeting new people.

OwenEverbinde, 9 months ago

Oh no, if I think someone’s name is Joe and it turns out being Jeff, I feel atrocious.

fubo, 9 months ago

Sure, but you probably have the sense to focus that into remembering their name correctly next time. You wouldn’t go telling them that Jeff is a molester name because Epstein and that therefore they should pretend to be named Joe.

LillyPip, 9 months ago

Exactly this. It’s just a minor social correction. Like if you meet Pamela and a few sentences later you call her Pam. She corrects you to ‘Pamela’ because she doesn’t like the nickname. No big deal, you call her Pamela and move on. It’s like that.

Nonameuser678, 9 months ago

From what I’ve seen gender diverse people generally seem to understand the difference between someone’s who’s just made a mistake and someone who refuses to use the correct pronoun despite being corrected numerous times.

Sneptaur, 9 months ago

Yep exactly! I’m trans and can confirm it’s not a huge deal. It’s actually usually fine to assume someone’s gender.

gibmiser, 9 months ago

I think the people who end up getting upset are the ones who are isolated from the LGBT community in real life.

ricecake, 9 months ago

Yup, that’s about it. A good tactic if you’re not sure about someone’s gender is to lead with your own: “hi, I’m shapis, he/him”. They’ll invariably follow suit most of the time. If they don’t and you get it wrong, well, you tried and were polite about it.

DogMuffins, 9 months ago

I know I’m out of touch on this, but I just can’t imagine someone introducing themselves in this way. Particularly if you’re a cis male and your pronouns are he/him. I guess it depends on context.

ricecake, 9 months ago

Yeah, it’s definitely still something new. It’s not something I would typically do in 99% of face to face encounters. In work presentations in front of a large audience we typically just fill it in on the introduction card at the start.

It’s only a tactic for the edge case where someone presents ambiguously, in which case they’re probably perfectly used to it as a way to politely ask. And yeah, it’s a little awkward, but no more so that any other “polite chat with a new person” banter.
You can usually tell what pronouns to use via normal social awareness, and when in doubt, sharing yours is a polite way to prompt others to share theirs.

BuddyTheBeefalo, 9 months ago

I find the use of the term guys exclusive.

shapis, 9 months ago

What do you mean

BuddyTheBeefalo, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

u/t3hgrl on reddit:

I have some strong opinions on this topic. It really is the default to talk about a group of people and most people out there won’t be bothered by it. Does that mean it is no longer a gendered term? Absolutely not. We’ve defaulted to male pronouns to refer to all humans for a really really long time, and it has never gone the other way. Using female pronouns to talk about a group has always been belittling, and there’s no female equivalent of “guys.” One of my favourite lines for when a man tries to tell me it’s okay to use guys because it’s completely gender-neutral is to ask “oh okay, so do you f*ck guys?” (Works for “dude” as well by the way!)

Personally I’ve been trying to remove it from my lexicon and have been having luck with saying y’all, everyone, friends, you two (or three, or four, etc.), and fam. “Y’all” is also not at all local to me either but I’ve found a lot of people have been using it as somewhat of a silly alternative and it’s become more accepted (in Canada. Might be a bigger stretch in Ireland.) I appreciate hearing people work on removing “guys” from their use and it does actually stick out to me when someone refers to me as a “guy,” but I have never corrected anyone. I see this as a change I’m working on for my own language and am not shy about sharing why, and I see a lot of people working on that same change (especially in LGBTQ2+ communities) so I foresee “guys” becoming much less common in the future.

TankieCatgirl, 9 months ago

The female equivalent to “guys” would be “gals” imo.

ratboy, 9 months ago

They may be acting facetious, but “guys” is a gendered term and some folks don’t appreciate being referred to as a guy. Just like some people don’t like being called “dude”. But that’s person to person, anyway. To answer your questions from my perspective (I’m a nonbinary millenial fyi)

Your pronouns are whatever feel reflective of your gender. If you feel that you’re a cisgendered man (someone who aligns with their gender assigned at birth), then yeah he/him is probably accurate. It’s whatever feels most authentic to you.

As for telling people your pronouns, I think it honestly would be really nice for more cisgender dudes to normalize that. It’s pretty uncommon for men to do in my experience, and I think it would show that you want to be respectful of gender nonconforming folks. Also if you share first, it may actually help people to feel more comfortable around you, and then they’ll likely share theirs so you won’t have to ask.

As for pronouns irl I’ve only really met folks who go by he/him, they/them, or she/her. I am not really deep in the queer community, though, and I think it’s more common to find folks who have other different pronouns in those spaces because they feel comfortable using them. It probably also depends on where you live. I live in a pretty queer-friendly town and so trans and other gender nonconforming folks make up a decent chunk of the population.

In conclusion though, I think doing all of the things you just asked about is really great and more men should do. Be a model for other dudes; get people comfy with it because if anyone else gets weird/hostile about it you are in a place of privilege to push back on that, and more of that is needed, especially in the political climate we are living in rn

Thisfox, 9 months ago

I don’t. Plenty of times said “what are you guys doing?” to a group of people which did not include men. I have been addressed the same way plenty, despite being cis female. Possibly it’s different in other countries, but on the east coast of nsw “guys” is gender neutral.

vis4valentine, 9 months ago

Cis allies usually put pronouns in their bios to show support and normalize the act itself of specifying then online. IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.

Just whenever you meet someone and they tell you to talk to them in a specific way, just do it and respect their pronouns. Its easy. Most people dont care if you get it wrong the first times as long as you acknowledge your mistake and correct yourself, your brain will get used to it and you will not make the mistake later. That’s the different between someone who is learning and an idiot purposefully misgendering someone.

BTW if you arent sure about someone elses pronouns, just ask them. Easy.

shapis, 9 months ago

Cool thanks. I just put mine up in my bio. Hopefully in the right spot.

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago

IRL since you are cis and I asume you look masculine there is no need to specify your pronouns.

I disagree with this. It’s better not to assume or encourage people to assume pronouns. It’s better to use they/them when you’re not sure. Most of the time you can learn people’s pronouns contextually, by hearing how other people refer to them.

Otherwise, it’s better to use they/them unless you have evidence otherwise. Looks isn’t evidence. It’s not the worst thing to assume once and be wrong, but if you’re aiming for inclusivity it’s better to not assume

vis4valentine, 9 months ago

Yeah. Good point. But I think OP shouldn’t worry about specifying his pronouns IRL, but what you say is a good general approach.

grabyourmotherskeys, 9 months ago

One thing I try to do as clueless old man is when I am writing a policy doc or instructions at work, I just stick with they/them.

Instructions on how to merge a branch in Git do not need gender specific pronouns.

vis4valentine, 9 months ago

Yeah. That is just better.

jpeps, 9 months ago

I think this is the most basic change to make that simplifies everything. Particularly online, until you described yourself as an ‘old man’ I had no idea of your gender. Traditional language would mean even without this information I’d still refer to you with he/him pronouns, or broader terms like ‘this guy’ etc, but to be more welcoming to everyone, we should be starting out using generic they/them for everyone.

CaptainAniki, 9 months ago

deleted_by_author

jpeps, 9 months ago

What do you mean by ‘never neutral’?

Ubettawerk, 9 months ago

Your first sentence is a really good point. Many cis-gendered people thing it’s pointless to add their pronouns in their email/bio, but it helps to not out those who are trans. If everyone/most people state their pronouns then it makes it harder to unnecessarily identify those who are trans.

planish, 9 months ago

People will sometimes introduce themselves with pronouns, or sometimes wear little badges with them.

There are definitely people IRL who don’t use the pronouns one might guess by looking at them. I haven’t met many (any?) people who go by neopronouns, but they are around the Internet.

You can often just guess pronouns for people, but if you can’t read the gender someone is presenting (is your new friend rocking a kilt, sports bra, and enormous beard?) it might be polite to ask, and/or to use “they” until you get the right one.

You don’t have to want people to call you he/him just because you are a man. But he/him is overwhelmingly popular with men, so it’s a fine choice.

If there is a field for pronouns, and you want people to know yours instead of them having to guess, you should put yours in there. The other reason to put pronouns in, even if people are likely to guess right, is to exercise the field for the people who often get guessed wrong.

barry_budapest, 9 months ago

You can normalize preferred pronouns by declaring them when you introduce yourself. Eg. I’m Barry and my pronouns are he/him. That’s being a good ally.

If you get someone’s pronoun wrong, it’s no big deal as long as you don’t keep pushing it. They can correct you and you should just use their pronoun after. The most important thing is to use the correct pronoun once told.

You can also ask if a person you have just met has preferred pronouns.

RickRussell_CA, 9 months ago

IMO, I think the world is going to transition to using they/them for gender unspecified folks. I’ve been practicing using they/them in written and spoken communications, and it comes off a lot less strange than you’d think.

Pooptimist, 9 months ago

*The English speaking world

Chobbes, 9 months ago

You mean to tell me that they don’t use English pronouns in other languages? I’m gonna need a source on that one, buddy!

Although, more seriously, I am curious if other languages lacking common usage of gender neutral pronouns are doing similar things to they/them. I know mandarin also has a bit of a weird situation where the third person pronoun when spoken is gender neutral, but the characters are gendered (他/她/它 are all PRONOUNced “ta”). I don’t know too much about why this is, but it sounds like it was foreign influence that led to the distinction in the written form?

jpeps, 9 months ago

I know at least for French it’s been more controversial as there was no direct they/them equivalent. Instead new language has started to be used, though it’s not standard. I find it interesting as they/them is often defended (beyond the fact that it’s been in use in English for a long long time) as being a language tool in English that’s readily available and a far more palatable alternative to neo-pronouns. However in French (and other languages) I wonder if an invented gender neutral equivalent is culturally perceived as being no different.

grabyourmotherskeys, 9 months ago

I just replied to another comment saying this. It’s trivial and I ask others to do it. I was thinking it would be easy to build this into grammar check software - prompt the user to ask if the document is gender specific, and if not suggest they/them.

MIDItheKID, 9 months ago

I have worked in IT for 15+ years, and I default to they/them for pretty much everybody. If I get a ticket in for an end user, and the name on the ticket is Jaime or something, it’s a coin toss on the gender, so I just go to they/them. Even if the name is more gender oriented, I don’t make any assumptions. And of course there is the case for foreign names I have never heard before. There’s no harm in using they/them. Or of course the ol’ “The end user”

Thorny_Thicket, 9 months ago

Finnish language doesn’t have gender specific pronous. Our equivalance for he/she is “hän” and it just refers to a person - not any specific gender. You can literally identify as anything you like, and “hän” still includes to you. Seems like the obvious solution to the “issue”.

Lettuceeatlettuce, 9 months ago

First off, thanks for asking and wanting to be more inclusive! :)

For your pronouns, you decide. If you typically go by “he/him” you can keep doing that, it’s up to you.

Depending on the setting, people around you might all introduce themselves with their prefered pronouns, you can introduce yourself with your pronouns if you wish to whenever though.

Similar to how you might tell people a different name you prefer to go by. So if your given name was Nicholas but you prefere to go by “Nick,” you might introduce yourself like, “Nice to meet you, I’m Nicholas, but just call me Nick.” likewise, you can say something like, “Nice to meet you, I’m Nick, He/Him”

Online, it’s fairly common now to have your pronouns in your profile or bio. Again, it’s up to you if you want to put them in your bio or not. Some sites have actual places in the sign up screen or profile page to place your pronouns, it depends on the site/software.

It’s rare for people to get offended IRL if you unintentionally mis-gender them. Most people will correct you politely in the same way they might if you called them by an incorrect name. So if you said, “Hey Nicholas, how are your classes going this semester?” they might say, “Oh, you can just call me Nick. Classes are going well so far, how about yours?”

Often people that know them will correct you politely too if you don’t know and used the wrong pronouns. I’ve had it happen a few times over the years and everybody has always been very polite about it. I just quickly say, “oh sorry, my bad.” and then just make sure to remember their pronouns going forward.

I personally have some family and friends that use they/them vs she/her or he/him. It’s a thing for sure, we all support them and their pronouns. It’s not very tough to get used to, and as long as you correct yourself if you make a mistake, nobody will be hurt. It’s fundamentally about loving them and being inclusive and supportive.

shapis, 9 months ago

Thank you for the comment I added he/him to my bio. Not sure if it’s in the right place.

Lettuceeatlettuce, 9 months ago

No prob, cool deal!

Owl, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

Are my pronouns he/him?

Probably. Your pronouns are what you want them to be. If someone says “I saw shapis at the park yesterday, but he looked busy so I didn’t say hi to him,” are he and him what you want in those positions?

(I’m going to assume you’re a he/him for the rest of this, but if you want something else let me know and I’ll edit the post.)

Is that how I should tell people?

Yeah, you’d say “my pronouns are he/him.”

Do you actually tell them as you meet them? Do I have to wait for a certain social cue?

In person, it comes up in group meetings where people are making an effort to be inclusive, typically gender diverse or far left crowds. Someone will mention it, or people will just start doing it. You don’t have to be the first person to start adding pronouns. But if you’re in a crowd with someone you know would appreciate it, it’d be nice to start it on your own (without singling them out).

The most awkward option is that you introduce yourself without pronouns, then it goes around the room and people start; in that case just pipe up and say yours are he/him.

How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?

Having it in your profile online is a good idea. Online it’s way more important, since it also combats “there are no girls on the internet.”

And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?

If someone has a gender presentation you can’t figure out, ask. If you’re pretty sure, guess. It’s a minor faux pas to get it wrong, but it’s within the realm of the inevitable awkwardness of human interaction, just say sorry once, correct yourself, and move on. Think of it as being as rude as accidentally stepping on someone’s foot. (Think about how rude that’d be if you kept doing it though.)

I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?

It is very rare, but they’re out there. People with really unconventional pronouns (I’ve met a fae/faer) are going to understand if you have to slow down when talking about them. Generally they’re chosen by people whose gender identity is nonconventional enough that they’re willing to put up with the hassle to get something that feels more right to them.

shapis, 9 months ago

he and him what you want in those positions?

I had never stopped to think about this. I guess the answer in my partícular case is I literally don’t care which ones they use. Hm. Not sure what that means.

Thank you for the detailed comment.

Owl, 9 months ago

in my partícular case is I literally don’t care which ones they use. Hm. Not sure what that means.

Some people don’t have internal gender feelings and just go with whatever they were assigned at birth out of convenience. I actually started that way and slowly drifted to feeling like my assigned gender much later in life.

Other times, someone realizing that is the first sign they’re trans. If you ask a group of trans people, that’ll probably be some of their origin stories. But I don’t think it’s actually that common overall (trans people are rare!). So what I’d recommend to you, and the other five people reading this that identify with your statement, is that you all sit down and think about your gender feelings a bit, so the trans one can get on with her life.

But anyway, pronouns options for the “assigned male but I don’t care” crowd are he/him, he/them, they/them, he/him/any, and any. For that last one, in a crowd where people are saying pronouns, you’d just say “any pronouns are fine”. (Long time hexbears know I used to rock the he/him/any.)

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago

seconding this. i started as not caring. realised im non-binary but still don’t really care. pronouns don’t really bother me, as for me, how other people view and refer to me doesn’t really affect my internal feelings on my gender. obviously this isn’t the case for all trans people, some definitely want to be seen and referred to as their self-id gender.

saplyng, 9 months ago

Ahh I see, now I get it. I never quite understood the need for the (he/she/them) when meeting new groups because I always felt aggressively apathetic to my own pronouns; sort of a "I don't care what you call me it doesn't change my feeling of me". But your comment and this chain helped that click for me!

ada, 9 months ago

Honestly, just try and avoid aggressively using gendered pronouns as the default. It’s not the end of the world if you do, but if you just stick with using they/them and names until you’ve had a chance to pick up on the social cues, you’ll be fine. And if it’s in a situation where no one knows anyone else, and where the social cues aren’t giving you the answer, then yeah, that’s the time to lead with your name and pronouns.

But none of it’s a big issue. Trans folk feel it when you get it wrong. We notice, but we also understand that sometimes mistakes happen, especially in a society that has taught everyone to associate pronouns and assumed gender. What’s important isn’t that you get it right every time, what’s important is that you pay attention when you get it wrong, and do your best to get it right from then on.

shapis, 9 months ago

I’ll keep that in mind. Thank you.

captainlezbian, 9 months ago

Trans woman here. Your pronouns are he/him unless you’d rather be addressed with other ones. There’s multiple ways to handle exchanging them but one of the popular strategies is look at how a person is presenting, how gendered their name is, etc and if it seems pretty strongly leaning one way you can guess otherwise give your pronouns and they give theirs in return. At least that’s what I do.

shapis, 9 months ago

Thank u that makes sense.

Narrrz, 9 months ago

I'm not the op, but like them im a cishet male. is it useful (to the movement, to non cishet, to LGBTQ+ people in general) to adopt pronouns other than what would be expected, perhaps to normalise them in much the same way that "partner" has been?

or would that generally be regarded as, well, something akin to cultural appropriation? or as malicious adoption, like "i identify as an attack helicopter"?

fubo, 9 months ago

It’s not appropriation, but if you don’t want to be called “xe/xem” then for crap’s sake don’t ask people to!

Narrrz, 9 months ago

well, I mean, it's no skin off my neck either way. I have no problem with being he/him, but I certainly wouldn't be offended be xe/xem (or for that matter she/her 😅 which was a mistake at least one person made during the mask mandate, when my beard wasn't so visible)

I'd just like to do what I can to make life easier for those who are faced with more everyday difficulties than I am, especially when it costs me so little.

ada, 9 months ago

or would that generally be regarded as, well, something akin to cultural appropriation? or as malicious adoption, like “i identify as an attack helicopter”?

It’s none of those things.

It’s more akin to pretending your name is Matt even though your name is Tom. You’re not going to offend anyone, and if it turns out that Matt feels right for you, then go for it, you’re Matt now. But if you’re not Matt, and don’t feel like Matt, then calling yourself Matt won’t achieve much for you or anyone else.

Thiakil, 9 months ago

If I’ve never heard anyone else use a specific pronoun for someone new or I otherwise don’t know, I try to use they/them. Otherwise I use what others do.

And if someone does let you know that a person/themselves prefer a specific one, always say thanks (you can’t be sorry for something you didn’t know!) and do your best to remember for next time.

I also try to use genderless terms like “folks” or just “everyone” instead of “guys”

shapis, 9 months ago

I’ll try to pick up that habit. Thank you. That’s a good suggestion.

salarua, 9 months ago

answering your questions as best I can (I’m a straight male too) in order:

1. if he/him seems right to you, then your pronouns are he/him. if other pronouns seem right to you, then your pronouns are those pronouns. pronouns don’t have to match up with your gender or presentation, go with whatever you vibe with
2. when meeting new people, I give my name and pronouns. “hi, my name is salarua and my pronouns are he/him.” of course, it’s nice to give your pronouns when asked, but other than that it’s up to you
3. just including your pronouns in your profile is good. some people put them in their nicks, some in their bio or about me. if you have a Mastodon, Akkoma, Misskey, or Firefish account you can put your pronouns in your custom fields
4. you can try and figure out other people’s pronouns from how other people refer to them. many people will also give their pronouns if you introduce yourself with your pronouns. it’s not a faux pas to not know someone’s pronouns beforehand, although I admit I don’t know a non-awkward way to ask someone their pronouns
5. a good bet is to refer to people whose pronouns you don’t know as they/them. if you mispronoun someone by mistake, quietly correct yourself and continue with whatever you’re saying. “so after arriving at the office, he- sorry, they went to go see their supervisor about the presentation…” as long as it’s not done out of malice, people don’t mind being mispronouned if you acknowledge the slip-up and move on
6. I haven’t met anyone irl with neopronouns either. presumably people with neopronouns would go by them if they were among people they felt safe with. unfortunately most of the world isn’t safe :(

bluebadoo, 9 months ago

Pro tip: everyone is they/them until otherwise stated. It sounds counterintuitive until you look at the example of the unknown stranger. You see a jacket left on the back of the a chair, and wonder if the stranger will return. You ask a person nearby, “Do you know who this belongs to? When are they coming back?”

English has always used neutral pronouns for someone unknown to you. We constantly make assumptions about gender based on appearance, and cis people take for granted that our outward appearance matches their gender. My best take on being an ally and inclusive is to default to gender neutral pronouns until someone states it or corrects you.

luthis, 9 months ago

Yep, they/them is the most simple and efficient solution.

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

I don’t tell people my pronouns. I’m male. I look male. I act male.

I appreciate when people are questionable or want to use different pronouns tell.

I equally appreciate when people don’t ask mine.

idiomaddict, 9 months ago

I can’t imagine asking someone, that feels so rude. I just use they/them for most people. I would worry that asking would set any transphobes off while also being a tiny kernel of “I don’t pass” to trans people.

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago

I hate guessing. Normally it’s obvious.

If it’s questionable. Most will offer unless they’re looking for drama.

I have a client who goes by they. I see I don’t do they. They asked me to use whatever I want they matches how they’re expressing. Perfect. They volunteered it when we met.

I try to accommodate everyone. It’s just manners. I just can do they. I screw it up.

TankieCatgirl, 9 months ago

Can you explain what it means to look and act male? And why you don’t like having people ask yours?

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

In 6’2, 225 pounds with about 10% body fat. I look like a man. I act like a man. Nobody has confused me for anything but a man.

It’s rude as it implies I don’t look or act like a man.

It’s why women are drawn to me. As my gf says, I wanted you because you’re all man. My last gf said the same thing.

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

How you look doesn’t make you a man. You could literally have all those physical traits and be a woman or non-binary.

Why is it rude to confirm how you self identify? Is it that horrible being trans or non-binary that people shouldn’t even confirm that you’re cis? How do you think trans people feel when someone assumes their gender based on how they look?

shitposting___ Wow we got the manliest man man over here! Women love him and he gets all the pussy!

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago

I explained why troll and don’t use the term cis. It’s offensive. I don’t identify as cis.

Shouldn’t you have asked if I identify as cis or did you just assume I used the term cis?

See how quickly you just violated your own rules you tried to chastise me for?

So go troll somewhere else with your fake concern.

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago

Ofc the whinging about cis comes out. You’re cis by the literal definition of the word. Get over it loser.

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wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago

Thank you for validating that you are just a concern troll.

Either people get to self-describe, or they do not. You really don’t believe any of this, you just want to seem ‘concerned’.

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago

I’m not concerned. I’m just calling you out for being a moron and a transphobe. Your time will come lib. stalin-gun-1

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago

I am neither, but you violated your own rules in your first reply. It just shows you’re a concern troll. Why is it that so many people from Hexbear think people won’t see their BS when it’s so obvious? I am neither a moron nor a transphobe. I am consistent, which is something you are not. So you are only here to troll. I will be blocking you now as I can’t be bothered with trolls.

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago

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rjs001, 9 months ago

You’re comment is so obviously the actual troll. Read before you comment such ridiculous things

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago

I explained why

saying you’re offended by people not assuming you are a man implies it’s bad to be a different gender, or trans/nb. Idk why you are so scared of people confirming your gender. You are the biggest ❄ on the planet and i cannot wait until you melt.

rjs001, 9 months ago

I think you are the troll. You simply seem like a cis guy who (due to some discomfort) is trying way too hard to ensure everyone knows “I am a CIS MAN”

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago

Nice Sockpuppet.

I have no discomfort, and thank you for all the baseless personal attacks. Way to go offtopic to prove you are a troll.

rjs001, 9 months ago

I have 1.9k comments. How many sockpuppets have you seen that have 1.9k comments? Your arguments are just silly

Shinhoshi, 9 months ago

I don’t identify as cis.

So you’re trans, then?

posthexbearposting, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

I’m 6’3, 250lbs, 6% bf and non-binary. Also my xad could beat up your dad

MaoWasRight, 9 months ago

I’m sorry. You may be getting it all wrong because right now you just sound like and are acting like a big ol pussy.

wintermute_oregon, 9 months ago

Thanks. You appear to have yourself confused with someone who matters.

TankieCatgirl, 9 months ago

Gonna have to call out the misogyny of calling someone a “pussy”.

pixxelkick, 9 months ago

Your pronouns are the ones you want to be referred to as, its that simple. So yeah, he/him if thats what you want people to use.

As for gender neutral pronouns, I just use them by default for everyone, especially on the internet when you have no idea who you are talking to as it is all anonymous (unless they have specified their pronouns in their bio/profile of course)

But overall you just get in the habit of using “they/them” unless explicitly you know their gender.

Once you get in the habit of it, it becomes more natural and you stop thinking about it.

Thats pretty much all there is to it, its quite simple and people who moan and complain about gender stuff are either:

1. Lazy, and dont want to put in the 1% of effort it requires to not be shitty
2. Really just bigoted but cant admit it out loud, so they complain about such things as a dog whistle to other bigots
3. Are extremely misinformed about what is expected of them. They seriously think the real world is out to get them, and that if they misgender someone they’ll get attacked for it (in reality maybe 1 person coughs uncomfortably and they get informed as an aside awkwardly). Non zero chance these folks also think vaccines cause autism and 5G causes cancer.

systemglitch, 9 months ago

Or… hear me out… this is insanity being given a voice and should be pushed back against, like so many other unhealthy things.

Yep, that does in fact sum it up

pixxelkick, 9 months ago

No idea wtf you are talking about, but you sound like someone in section 2 or 3.

But Ill just quote you, yourself, from something you wrote 6 days ago:

People are rather ignorant as a whole. Many of us here probably use our brains for genuine thought, but I find that to be the exception.

Look at the shit people focus on as important and how they mimic what they see and parrot what they hear and it becomes clear how they can’t even get simple sayings right.

While you were referring to people using common phrases entirely wrong, I think it applies to what you have written here.

There is nothing unhealthy about being grammatically correct. There is nothing new about this either. The pronouns They/Them are ancient as hell and have been a part of the English lexicon for centuries. It is not conceptually a remotely novel idea to use gender neutral pronouns in a gender neutral way.

Full stop, its that simple. There is nothing political, social, or whatever about using they/them.

It is purely grammatically correct, and always has been.

Consider this

Completely subtract the whole trans thing away, all recent kerfuffle, and just consider this very simple scenario that is not anything new, and is grammatically an occurrence that would have happened even hundreds of years ago.

Imagine you have discovered in a public place a personal belonging of someone, it is clearly valuable and has initials on it. You dont know the person’s name, and you don’t know who they are. You definitely do not know the person’s gender.

Now, answer me this simple question: Would or would not the following statement aloud, even hundreds of years ago, be grammatically correct English?

“Someone lost their belonging! We should get it back to them, they probably miss it!”

Note how in this case we are still using Gender Neutral Pronouns, because we do not know the person’s gender

Even hundreds of years ago, this would have been absolutely normal to say and grammatically correct. Gender Neutral Pronouns were in use in even extremely old books you can still find and read today.

systemglitch, 9 months ago

I already think you are off your rockers. Seeing that much text and the bits of glanced at confirmed it.

Write more essays to support clear unnecessary complexity in langauage. But know this: only people drinking the same Kool aid as you will read that much nonsense.

pixxelkick, 9 months ago

So, you’re entire response effectively boils down to:

“Rather than actually read what someone has written, I am going to choose ignorance and make assumptions about what the text contains so as to avoid the possibility I may have to question my own viewpoint”

Look mate, if you wanna ignore what people say and not even bother to read it, out of fear that you might possibly learn something new, that’s on you.

But later in life, as the world begins to advance past you and every day you feel more and more left behind, remember that these moments were all the sorts of points when people offered you a hand to help you catch back up and keep pace with everyone else, and you slapped that hand away.

I can’t possibly speak as to why. Willful ignorance? Fear of confronting a mistake you perhaps made? Pride? Bigotry? Hate?

Who knows.

But in the end, you probably won’t bother to read any of this either.

Nothing about what I wrote above was “nonsense” or “drinking the Kool aid”

It was a fairly basic grammar lesson, covering a topic you should have learnt about in gradeschool.

The fact something as basic as the topic of how gender neutral pronouns work, something that has existed for centuries in the English Lexicon, has produced such a response from you as to say I am “off my rocker”, is fascinating… and sad.

I don’t really know how to approach the concept of someone being informed that the words “They” “Them” and “Their” have been around for a long long time, caused them to respond with “you are off your rockers”

Mostly just makes me sad to see how deeply your school system has done you a disservice, and failed you. Shame really.

systemglitch, 9 months ago

Chill dude, seriously.

Sotuanduso, 9 months ago

Can we not dig up people’s comment history to win arguments? That’s kinda toxic.

pixxelkick, 9 months ago

If you dont like people using your own words against you, don’t post it on the internet where the entire world can see it.

What, exactly, is toxic about holding someone to their own word?

What is toxic, precisely, about pointing out how a persons own statement mere days ago directly contradicts their current stance now?

If highlighting a persons inconsistencies and self contradictions is toxic, then so I shall be. I have zero issue with calling people out on their bullshit though.

Don’t like it? Stop posting on the public of the internet on a forum where your words will be marked down for the rest of history (or at least, until Lemmy instances all suddenly stop being used, which likely won’t be anytime soon)

Sotuanduso, 9 months ago

There’s a basic expectation, when you make an argument on a public forum, that it’ll be judged on the content of the argument, not on who posted it. If you want to look through their history to see if they’re a troll, and then just ignore them if they are, there’s nothing wrong with that.

What you did was say “you’re stupid and lazy,” but for no good reason, you used that guy’s own words to say it. That was entirely unnecessary. It didn’t prove any inconsistency, it just proved that, like many people on Lemmy, the guy thinks a lot of people are dumb.

What is non-toxic about using someone’s own words from past threads to insult them when you already have enough of a text wall to make your point?

pixxelkick, 9 months ago

What you did was say “you’re stupid and lazy,”

Extremely reductive and explains why you viewed it as toxic.

That is not what I said, at all. You have focused on the wrong parts of what I quoted, and ignored the context of my statements surrounding the quote.

If you read what I wrote, you should see that was not what I said at all.

So yeah, I guess if you quickly skim over what I wrote, not really reading it much, focus on the quote I called out, and assume there is some sort of insult buried in their to be dredged up and squint your eye’s hard enough, you can draw such a conclusion.

But I’d recommend go back and read what I wrote instead.