So, on pronouns.

Nath, 9 months ago

Watch Princess Bride. Perfect that “as you wish”. With genuine sincerity.

Perfect. You’ve had a fun movie experience (Inconceivable!) and you now know the perfect way to respond to someone who has asked you or corrected you regarding pronouns.

riley0, 9 months ago

Don’t ask for other people to identify you, please.

DirigibleProtein, 9 months ago

People who actually care about pronouns will tell you theirs.

madcaesar, 9 months ago

To add to this, I have yet to meet a person in the real world who gives a shit about pronouns. I swear the whole thing is just an online phenomenon used to get people to fight over nonsense.

evelyn, 9 months ago

Most people don’t have to care about pronouns. For a small subset of people the gender of their brain does not match the gender they appear as. Passing as your preferred gender can take years and is mostly down to genetics. So non-passing trans people will ask others to use their pronouns so they can socially transition before they pass. And that isn’t even mentioning non-binary people. The reason cis people specify their pronouns is to normalize it for trans people who don’t have a choice.

seliaste, 9 months ago

In my university Ive been asked what my pronouns were multiple time by all sorts of people
Idk how it is where you live but in french univerities it is definetly real life

07Chess, 9 months ago

Most people aren’t going to ask about your pronouns if you present in a traditionally gendered way. If someone tells you their pronouns I think it’s polite to tell them yours too even if you think it’s obvious. It sounds like the way you’ve described yourself that your pronouns are he/him. If you find yourself around a group of queer/trans folks it would probably be contextually appropriate for you to introduce yourself as “My name is and I use he/him.” If you want to go above and beyond and do that all the time nobody will fault you that would benefit or appreciate that information. Some people may be confused or make an assumption but if you want to be an ally that can include taking the brunt of some of those conversations and teaching people why you’re doing it. Makes it more normalized.

You are pretty much always welcome to ask someone’s pronouns if you are unsure. Most trans/non binary folks will appreciate you asking because unfortunately there are a lot of cis hetero men that wouldn’t extend that courtesy or demonstrate that they’re accepting and open like that. As long as you’re respectful just ask “Hey, name, what are your pronouns? Mine are he/him.” and that will be more than sufficient. If you mess up after that do not apologize. Instead, thank them, restate your sentence using the correct pronouns, and move on. Don’t make it a huge ordeal and fall over yourself apologizing. Saying you’re sorry in that situation puts the misgendered person in the position of having to say “it’s okay” when it’s not. Thanking them demonstrates you’re aware that you made a mistake and shows that you are appreciative and trying to learn and do better.

For example: You: “He loves to skateboard.” Other person “they” You: “Right! Thank you. They love to skateboard.” then continue the rest of what you were saying.

Online can be tricky. You only really need to gender someone if they gender themselves. Everyone to me online is they until I see evidence otherwise. It makes your life easier to just be as neutral as possible.

There are definitely people out there that use unconventional pronouns. I’ve only met a few that use something other than they/them but they’re out there. It’s not just a fad or for inclusivity for the sake of it, it’s just rare. In fact there are probably people you’ve met that use they/them but they may not have been comfortable telling you that. It’s understandable, but I think it says a lot about your character that you’re curious and want to do the right thing. Thanks for asking!

systemglitch, 9 months ago

It’s insane, literally, to care about this. Making language more complex than its simplicity of expression needs to be is insane.

Stop buying into this you loons.

Skkorm, 9 months ago

You kind of don’t have to think about it this much. Someone who cares will tell you their preferred pronouns, in which case you’d say he/him then move on with your day

SnipingNinja, 9 months ago

in which case you’d say he/him

If that’s their preferred pronoun

Agent641, 9 months ago

Its quite important that you remember what the late Michael Jacksons pronouns were. They were He/He

Dirk, 9 months ago

Outside the internet no-one really cares. Inside the Internet only certain bubbles care.

Gsus4, 9 months ago

And one of the best parts of online discussions is that they are not biased by how you look, just what you write :)

Dirk, 9 months ago

I don’t know if it would be any better rating myself based on looks instead of my writing :D

But yes, that’s a great thing. Everyone in the Internet is just an entity addressed by the nickname. There is no need for gender or pronouns.

brygphilomena, 9 months ago (edited 9 months ago)

Yes, basically yours are he/him since you don’t identify as a different gender.

You only tell people if asked. No one will ask, because there isn’t any ambiguity about your gender identity. If you’d like, I’ve seen many straight cisgendered men put he/him in their profiles as support for the community.

Use your best judgement, most people will go by the gender you assume. If someone corrects you, apologize and use the correct pronouns from then on.

I have one friend that transitioned. She’s just a she now. Simple as that.

I have another friend that changed their name. The group I was with was confused on their pronouns, so I just asked them and they told me. Asking what they are shows that you respect them and their decisions.

If you respect people and use the pronouns they request, you shouldn’t go wrong.

Floey, 9 months ago

I wouldn’t ask someone their pronouns as a conversation opener because it makes some folks uncomfortable. For example a trans person might wonder something like “Do they ask that of everybody? Do I not pass?” if “passing” is something they care about.

It’s better to just correct mistakes when you make them. It’s also just something you’ll pick up automatically talking with people they know, and like here where the hypothetical person’s pronouns are ambiguous you can fall back to they. And when taking to the person themselves you are going to be using you anyway.

Assian_Candor, 9 months ago

This is why saying your pronouns even if you’re obviously cis is cool and good bc it normalizes it

ClockNimble, 9 months ago

Hello! Resident Genderfluid person here. Usually you can just ask their name and that works to get them to give you the greeting they like. They look like a James, but give you the name Samantha? Probably safe to use she/her unless doing so has them ask you to use something else. IRL, at least.

Online? It’s usually in a bio or they will tell you if it is functionally relevant. The only people I (anecdotally) have seen devolve into scree when accidentally misgendered were people trying to start something or acting for the sake of poisoning the well.

As far as using non conventional pronouns irl, you probably haven’t heard it since it is genuinely dangerous to be outed in a lot of places. Look up gay/trans panic laws. It’s dangerous to be queer in America with Conservatives having so much sway right now.

Delicious_Tomatoes, 9 months ago

As far as using non conventional pronouns irl, you probably haven’t heard it since it is genuinely dangerous to be outed in a lot of places.

This is usually true enough for rule of thumb, but can vary wildly by geography. I would be willing to help smuggle a gender minority out of a rural zone, whereas I wouldn’t be too surprised to hear “ze/zim” in some cities. In general, the GSRM community will appreciate a cis ally signaling ally-ship. OP, as long as it’s safe for you, the community would appreciate your announcing pronouns; it signals that you are not a totally garbage human.

amelia, 9 months ago

I would also assume that if someone who looks like a James introduces themselves as Samantha, it’s absolutely fine to ask for the correct pronouns, or ask them to confirm it’s female pronouns. Samantha would probably actually appreciate it.

olafurp, 9 months ago

If I’m asked then I say my pronoun is his royal highness.

I call others by their cis gender unless either it’s obvious like wearing a dress or corrected. People can choose how they want to be addressed but shouldn’t expect me to know lol.

One extra note on using they them when you don’t know: No, I’m going to assume that the person is not in the 2% of people that look like one gender and aren’t.

amio, 9 months ago

Mostly it's chill - don't worry about it. If you make an honest mistake, no sane person will think less of you for it. The real faux pas people keep running into is usually just being a cock about this. It's reasonably easy to avoid.

You likely don't need to tell anyone IRL. You're a guy, so he/him is natural. Nobody's likely to even ask. Same applies if it's obvious online, otherwise feel free to add it in your profile or something.

And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out ? Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them ? Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?

Most people are cis (etc) anyway, so the obvious guess is mostly safe. You rarely need to refer to anyone by a pronoun before they're introduced to you. In that case it's "they" - perfectly normal, native English for centuries, which people sometimes forget. Then, if someone's introduced as "Bob" he's probably fine with "he" etc.

If you're worried about getting it wrong, I'd just wait for a name or refer to them some other way.

I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?

IRL that's unlikely, neopronouns are pretty niche even on the internet. He/she/they will do in the vast majority of cases. People who insist on one of the other ones are fairly rare.

RickRussell_CA, 9 months ago

IMO, I think the world is going to transition to using they/them for gender unspecified folks. I’ve been practicing using they/them in written and spoken communications, and it comes off a lot less strange than you’d think.

Pooptimist, 9 months ago

*The English speaking world

Chobbes, 9 months ago

You mean to tell me that they don’t use English pronouns in other languages? I’m gonna need a source on that one, buddy!

Although, more seriously, I am curious if other languages lacking common usage of gender neutral pronouns are doing similar things to they/them. I know mandarin also has a bit of a weird situation where the third person pronoun when spoken is gender neutral, but the characters are gendered (他/她/它 are all PRONOUNced “ta”). I don’t know too much about why this is, but it sounds like it was foreign influence that led to the distinction in the written form?

jpeps, 9 months ago

I know at least for French it’s been more controversial as there was no direct they/them equivalent. Instead new language has started to be used, though it’s not standard. I find it interesting as they/them is often defended (beyond the fact that it’s been in use in English for a long long time) as being a language tool in English that’s readily available and a far more palatable alternative to neo-pronouns. However in French (and other languages) I wonder if an invented gender neutral equivalent is culturally perceived as being no different.

grabyourmotherskeys, 9 months ago

I just replied to another comment saying this. It’s trivial and I ask others to do it. I was thinking it would be easy to build this into grammar check software - prompt the user to ask if the document is gender specific, and if not suggest they/them.

MIDItheKID, 9 months ago

I have worked in IT for 15+ years, and I default to they/them for pretty much everybody. If I get a ticket in for an end user, and the name on the ticket is Jaime or something, it’s a coin toss on the gender, so I just go to they/them. Even if the name is more gender oriented, I don’t make any assumptions. And of course there is the case for foreign names I have never heard before. There’s no harm in using they/them. Or of course the ol’ “The end user”

Thorny_Thicket, 9 months ago

Finnish language doesn’t have gender specific pronous. Our equivalance for he/she is “hän” and it just refers to a person - not any specific gender. You can literally identify as anything you like, and “hän” still includes to you. Seems like the obvious solution to the “issue”.

Blake, 9 months ago

I’m just a straight male. Are my pronouns he/him?

Probably. Straight is the wrong word here - that refers to your sexuality, not your gender identity. A straight male is into women. But a straight male could also have pronouns other than he/him. Usually, a cisgender male uses he/him pronouns, but not always. Cisgender is a word that means that your gender identity matches your assigned gender at birth - e.g. not transgender

Is that how I should tell people?

Yes, the best way to do it is part of your introductions, like, “Hi, I’m Blake, my pronouns are he him”. Usually people don’t “say” the slash, it’s just a space, but you can say it if you want.

Do you actually tell them as you meet them ?

It’s up to you. If I am meeting someone 1:1 for the first time, I probably wouldn’t unless they did first. I always do it when I’m introducing myself to a group.

Do I have to wait for a certain social cue ?

The only social cue is simply, “what are your pronouns?”. Ideally, we (cisgender folk) should be trying to make it easier for transgender/non-binary people by sharing our pronouns, even if they would be obvious to most people - I’m a hairy, 6’4” bear, most people can tell I identify as male, but if I say my pronouns are he/him or any/all pronouns (I don’t mind which pronouns people use for me) it makes it less awkward for trans people or gender non-conforming (GNC) folk to do so.

How about online. Should I tell people or have it on my personal profile somewhere?

It’s up to you, nobody will expect it from you - it’s personal information after all. If you’re comfortable sharing it, then you can put it anywhere you like, including on your profile, or you can share at the point it becomes relevant.

And about respecting other people’s pronouns. How do i figure them out?

Either they tell you, or you ask them! It’s better if you avoid trying to guess. If you need to use a pronoun and you haven’t been told them, go with they/them.

Is it a big faux pas if I don’t before I know them ?

Nope, not at all! No one is expecting you to know their pronouns before they tell you, or you ask.

Is it a faux pas if I refer to someone I just met and I assumed to be male as he/him?

Usually not - most of the time, you probably can guess from gender expression, and you wouldn’t cause any offence. If there is even 1% doubt in your mind though, you should definitely just ask. Even if you’re 99.99% or even 100% sure, it’s good to ask anyways. The more we normalise people asking and sharing pronouns, the less awkward it becomes for everyone!

I’ve never seen anyone referring to anyone irl by non conventional pronouns. Is it an actual thing or is it currently being pushed to make the world a more inclusive place?

In my experience, it’s pretty uncommon, but it does exist. Usually they’re used by people who don’t really feel comfortable identifying as exclusively male or exclusively female, or by people who want to subvert or oppose the usual gender binary.

Hope this helps, thanks for being open with your questions and for trying to make the world a better place! If you have any other questions just ask.