Well, it’s not like Apple doesn’t also collect pretty hair-raising information on you. Go digging through some of the sqlite databases on your machine and you’ll find eg. a social graph that even supports labels for things like political affiliations (I think this db was the one used by their ominously named “intelligence platform” service). Another db (which I think was for the knowledged daemon) has an incredibly detailed log of everything you do on your computer and phone, including eg. web URLs and millisecond granularity events on when you interact with your devices. Whether that social graph or all that other stuff ever leaves your devices is unknown (although eg. the knowledged stuff definitely does since I can see events for my phone on my laptop), but I wouldn’t count on it not being sent to Apple – regardless of what they claim.
And yeah, sure, this is all to make “customer experience” better, but do you seriously believe that’s all they will be used for?
Edit: and just as a side note, I’m not basing these claims on stuff I read online, but on actually having looked at the contents of those databases myself
Sure! ~/Library/IntelligencePlatform (associated with intelligenceplatformd) has a bunch with graph.db being the social graph, but with others like behaviors.db and eventLog.db also likely being relevant, and I think ontology.db was the one where they kept more information on the tags available for the social graph. ~/Library/Application Support/Knowledge/knowledgeC.db (associated with Spotlight’s knowledgeconstructiond, which I think used to be called knowledged in earlier versions) has the other stuff I mentioned.
There’s also some system-level things in eg. /var/db/knowledgegraphd/ but I haven’t bothered looking into those yet because it’d require disabling SIP.
Oh you didn’t waste my time at all, no worries. It’s not like copy-pasting those paths from my terminal was all that much work, and it’d definitely have been better if I’d included that info right from the start. Unfortunately I couldn’t give any blog posts etc as a source, because as I said it was all based on my own poking around in those databases, but at least I could say where the databases were so others could do some poking around of their own if they wanted to
But don’t forget, Apple gets billions of dollars from Google too, to be default webpage… So they’re totally complicit, and in practice, they’re effectively selling your user data to google.
The biggest issue with Apple has always been their dodgy marketing. 20 years ago, they were living off the incorrect claim that “MacOS can’t get Viruses”, and now, seems to be just as dodgy with privacy.
At the end of the day, being as big as they are makes both of them malicious, manipulative and exploitative per default, otherwise they wouldn’t be multi-billion or even trillion dollar companies in the first place.
Did the EU force Apple to switch the iPad to USB-C? For that matter, didn’t Apple have like 20 or so engineers on the USB-C spec?
I don’t know how much more hate Apple can get, their mere existence enables an entire tech-journalism ecosystem dedicated to laying out their evils and predicting their demise. It’s good for the economy!
Interesting perspective. Apple did not roll it out on their phones for reasons of greed like I said. Their team being involved in the spec only makes it more frustrating that they refused to fucking adopt it universally.
I don’t know how much more hate Apple can get
I would say I don’t know how much corporate cock can be sucked by the public. This is the world’s first trillion dollar company for fuck’s sake
Apple didn’t make enough off of Lightning for greed to be a factor. Hell the majority of Lightning cables sold were unlicensed knockoffs from Amazon and the grocery checkout aisle.
The reason Apple is so rich is that Apple isn’t really dominant in any of the markets they compete at this point(save for the tablet and watch, and that dominance is basically due to the incompetence of Microsoft(surface sucked and Android makers exited the market)) and Google(wearOS evaporated for like 3 years)).
Apple is rich because aside from a few high profile failures, they sell premium products that are competent in targeted categories, and their competitors sell a wide variety products of varying quality in every market category imaginable. What happens then is if Apple releases a new ithing, you can probably buy it and be good, so one Apple purchase leads to another, and they all sync, so might as well pay for iCloud, etc.
You’ve apparently missed the point. Graphene exists solely to harden security and privacy by disabling the googly parts of the phone. That is clearly what was meant by “without Google”
Genuine question. I used to be an avid ROMer back int day until I got really really annoyed at all the hoops I had to jump through to use Google Wallet.
Now I have a Pixel 7a and I’m considering ROMs again. So I am wondering if I can just relock the bootloader once I find a ROM I like and it’ll pass all the Safety net bullshit and allow me to use my phone like it should be, just with a custom ROM on it.
Ultimately you can’t know everything. At some point you have to trust someone. The graphene people seem to know they are doing imo. Ultimately everything is flawed, you just have to know when to say "good enough ". The pixel hardware is pretty great imo and they are often cheap, so I think it’s worth considering them given that they can be hardened in various ways.
Because this will get .001% more total data considering the low number of GrapheneOS users. Besides, this is highly illegal and would result in significant public outcry and legal consequences far greater in cost than any potential benefits.
And if you cannot trust Google with their processors, you cannot trust any other company either.
The people who install Graphene and other modified Android variants on their devices are a lot more likely to be monitoring packets sent from their devices.
Believe me, we’d know the same day an android device that had been de-Googled called home. That would make worldwide news.
@soulfirethewolf@ijeff its biggest lockdown is the security model, which even though it won't disallow you from doing anything you couldn't otherwise do (if you're motivated enough), it draws the line of tradeoffs to make. I gave up rooting and a lot of stuff (like contactless payments) for it's security and stability, and I'm fine with that, but you should ask yourself if that's worth it for you. If you have to go out of your way to break the security model, even once, then it isn't for you.
I would like to think that the percentage of users who have grapheneOS is maybe 5% of the pixel population. I’m just pulling a number out of my ass right now but basically a lot of people who want the very best privacy and security go for graphene which is limited to only Pixels even though there are more cool phones like the fp5.
There are some people who use other roms like Lineage without the google apps. It’s not as good as Graphene but it’s better than the OEM version that comes with the phones.
Lineage is by far the most popular custom ROM and it has about 3.2 million active devices. Which is about nothing in comparison to 1.22 billion smartphones sold alone in 2022. Barely anyone uses third party ROMs.
Having to log into a Google account that uniquely identifies you across all your devices and milks you of every single data it can put its filthy hands on?
I am an android user but honestly between the two I think Apple is the lesser evil
Apple is 100% correct. It’s the entire reason Android exists.
Then again, Apple also does a fair bit of data collection. I hate that Apple has been able to market themselves as some kind of bastion of privacy. They aren’t.
Apple is 100% correct. It’s the entire reason Android exists.
Then again, Apple also does a fair bit of data collection. I hate that Apple has been able to market themselves as some kind of bastion of privacy. They aren’t.
So Apple is not 100% correct. They are 50% correct because the second half of their claim is that Apple is somehow different and not tracking its users…
I believe the reason Google acquired Android was to make sure that Apple didn’t dominate the mobile device landscape, which would be a threat to their ad business. The data collection was just a nice side-effect, from their perspective.
I think you underestimate how early Google acquired Android. In 2005, Apple wasn’t even in the mobile device market. Nokia were the dominant handset in those days.
All cell phones are tracking devices. Unless you faraday cage them. But yes, both apple and Android phones give out way more information than just that. And I definitely would not say that I would trust Apple more with data that I would Google.
Genuine question: in what ways do Apple track iOS users (that cannot be turned off)?
I’m of the viewpoint that most tracking can be rather easily be turned off, and that android plays in a totally other ballpark here. But I might very well be wrong.
They both track you fairly closely. There are no winners if you are primarily concerned about privacy. Google is simply more open about it, and provides more access to that data to you (like timeline and takeout).
Actually, the reason Android exists isn’t so one-dimensional.
The company Android was initially concerned more with Microsoft dominating phones like they did computers at the time, before being bought by Google
They created two prototype chains initially, one touch, one that was more akin to BlackBerry
iPhone came out, they ditched the BlackBerry-esque one and focused on what became now Android
Google was mostly just doing what all tech companies were doing at the time, trying to compete in a mobile arms race for dominance. The data tracking was just a bonus. Appeasing shareholders is paramount. Look at how Apple created an Alexa speaker just because they had to as another example of this type of behavior.
Also, Apple actually has a long history of tracking user behavior that predates both Android and the iPhone.
Apple apps since some time shortly after the inception of OS X would (and likely still do) phone home to configuration.apple.com to send apple metrics on usage. Earlier variations of LittleSnitch could actually block this collection behavior.
Apple has since reconfigured the network stack to guarantee that direct encrypted connections to Apple are always possible above any VPN, or other type of network filter connection. So there’s no way to prevent communication with Apple on an Apple product at all now short of keeping it off the Internet or blocking DNS to 17.* IP addresses, which would only work on a network one has control over.
Apple still links services like device bricking to the Find My network. If your iphone is stolen, and you don’t want someone to reset it to use or sell, you HAVE to submit your location data to be a part of the tracker network. Disabling that, Apple sends users a scary nag email that their device is no longer protected.
I love how you took the time to write the years and title of the event… 😁😆😊🤍
Wish there was a website or a wiki that document all this, these companies are basically using philosophical fallacies as a marketing strategy at this point
100%. Most business is just advanced sophistry at this point. Marketing and advertising serves a useful purpose for new products, when the market isn't aware that it exists.
But by quantity and cost, most advertising is just social manipulation and is effectively an extra drain on the economy.
Not exactly true. If you enable “Advanced Data Protection” not even apple can look at your data (with the exception of data which has to be interoperable like calendars and mail)
I’m sure the Google is also encrypting the data with the exception of the interoperable data. So there’s no difference. Why point fingers when Apple do the same?
Apple also know your browsing history. They also know your app usage. They also store your contacts, calendar, photos - just like Google. I don’t see the difference.
Don’t forget our vehicles are also tracking us. Soon our Ai trainers will have enough data to guide us in their path and we’ll love what they tell us we should do.
One more advantage of the used cars I buy: the cell network they can connect to doesn't exist anymore (the radios don't exist, the company itself exists, but they have upgraded towers to not support older cell connections).
I have never had an accident in my life and I hope to continue that trend. However, if I need to replace my car I’ll just get something else old and used. I’m fine working on my own car and I don’t need a fancy set of wheels
Lol at Apple trying to wiggle its way into everything trying to fool people that they are privacy champs and everyone else using Android is a chump. I have no doubt in my mind that Apple has terabytes of data on every user. And Google maps can be used without signing in, making their argument a moot point
It is worth remembering incentives though. Apple is primarily a hardware company. Most of their revenue comes from iPhones. Google is primarily an ad company that makes money selling ads, and your data.
This obviously doesn’t make Apple a privacy champion , but it should be considered. Apple is at least theoretically in a position to push for the privacy of their users, while Google is not.
Apple is also trying to expand is advertising division. It might be nessecary to force companies like this to split but I doubt we will ever get such regulation.
Apple also makes a fair bit of money from its software services such as the Apple subscriptions, which are massive wells of data. I do not find it strange that they care about harvesting data from their users. Every company who offers software services does the same thing.
Google doesn’t sell shit. They sell and target ads. If they sold your data why would people come to them to purchase ads? What advantage would they have?
was this old (the google logo is the old one so i’m not sure) or was apple just uninformed?
you can have all sorts of multiple accounts in the control panel, mail and calendar all have on device log ons, you can update apps outside of the app store or use the google play store with your google account the same way you do with your apple account.
Given how they operate internally at the engineering level, probably just Apple being uninformed. The internal culture is total brainwash. Apple tech is the only tech. It is partly why they genuinely think they created technologies. They never stick their head out of the fruit to see what the world around them has, and they have a habit of buy, cheat, or steal to ensure their monopoly continues.
Maybe an interesting sociological experiment? How technology evolves in a cult versus outside the cult back in the real world?
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