RedditMigration

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snownyte, in Just wanted a warning, Lemmy.World is perhaps worse than reddit at respecting their users
@snownyte@kbin.social avatar

Yeah I fucking knew and had a sense that lemmy.world would be contaminated with the redditard disease. Hopped ship when I started noticing the similar content, the similar behavior and realized "hm, this is becoming more and more like Reddit".

hiddengoat,

deleted_by_author

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  • snownyte,
    @snownyte@kbin.social avatar

    That's nice, child. Going to go play cannibal corpse or slipknot on loud to show the world how edgy you are? Go do the dishes, bitch.

    IzzyData, in Just wanted a warning, Lemmy.World is perhaps worse than reddit at respecting their users
    @IzzyData@kbin.social avatar

    At this point Lemmy feels like a failed experiment. I really wanted to like it, but when the admins of the biggest instance are this terrible I don't know how it can recover.

    Also 90% of the engagement and content is around non-original memes. There is nothing on Lemmy that isn't somewhere else which means there is no reason to join Lemmy as of yet.

    ElderWendigo,

    Not a Star Trek fan I take it?

    IzzyData,
    @IzzyData@kbin.social avatar

    I love Star Trek.

    NekoKamiGuru, in Is it possible to submit a DMCA takedown notice for subreddit rules and sidebar content?
    @NekoKamiGuru@kbin.social avatar

    If your subreddit had custom art then you could try to get that removed , but if the rules were based off the standard rules template for reedit then there is not much you can do there.

    HumbleHobo, in Reddit faces content quality concerns after its Great Mod Purge
    @HumbleHobo@beehaw.org avatar

    I’m sad because the fediverse wasn’t necessarily equipped to handle the influx of new people or accomodate all the outgoing mods. It should have been a moment to bring everyone over here, but sadly, even now I’m seeing the drop-off of usage of many of my fediverse hangouts. :(

    CoffeeAddict,
    @CoffeeAddict@kbin.social avatar

    There is truth to this. But, Reddit’s drama also put the spotlight on the fediverse and the need for alternatives to Reddit in general. Personally, I can say I did not even know it existed. Over the last ten-or-so years, Reddit really did develop a monopoly on forums. The progress we have seen with Kbin, lemmy, etc is because of their heavy-handed and poorly executed crackdown on third-party apps.

    But still, you are correct that the fediverse was not yet a full-fledged alternative to Reddit in June. Many lemmy clients, such as Memmy or Mlem, were not ready yet. And most promising Kbin client, Artemis, is still in beta as well. Even Kbin itself is still technically a beta (not that I don’t love them both lol). Had all of these been ready in June, then I think the Reddit exodus would have been much more dramatic and impactful.

    I think we need to give it a bit more time. After all, Reddit didn’t get huge overnight either. So long as we keep posting and commenting away, and create environments/communities that are welcoming, we should be able to eventually grow into something that can rival Reddit.

    Madison_rogue,
    @Madison_rogue@kbin.social avatar

    Since moving to kbin.social from Reddit I have been 10 times more active in posting because I want the platform to be successful and engaging. It's been a very refreshing change, but it only works if you participate.

    raze2012,

    We can't fix what happened. The June fiasco brought attention to the Fediverse and it provided a boost. A boost the fediverse wasn't fully equipped for, but a boost nonetheless.

    The best thing to do is prepare for the next fiasco. And given "Reddit pays you for updoots" is still incoming, there will be a next fiasco. Make sure bugs are fixed, be able to point to some apps or alternative views that people made, and overall be a smoother transition than what was before.

    NekoKamiGuru,
    @NekoKamiGuru@kbin.social avatar

    Karma based social media can be seen as failed social experiment that only lead to polarization , echo chambers , and shattered communities .

    NekoKamiGuru, in How I imagine most Reddit moderators look
    @NekoKamiGuru@kbin.social avatar

    The word "chud" is an enormous red flag that someone is a radical who has a highly explosive anger disorder that is on a hair trigger.

    In my experience they are always one step away from leaping over the table to kick someone on the face then walk away like they have heaven on their side.

    unsophisticated, in PSA: while upvoting exists, to get the "move closer to the top" effect that reddit's upvote had, you need to click boost

    Horrible idea. No one sees this button, no one knows what it does, and upvotes definitely should have that effect.

    Calcharger,
    @Calcharger@kbin.social avatar

    Ernest is likely working on it

    fartsinger,

    We talking P. Worrell or the developer guy?

    Calcharger,
    @Calcharger@kbin.social avatar

    Developer guy

    Ashyr,

    I'd give anything to have Ernest P. Worrell back and on the case.

    FaceDeer,
    @FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

    I somehow feel like any software he wrote wouldn't work very well.

    discodoubloon,
    @discodoubloon@kbin.social avatar

    He has to do a physical side-quest every time anything breaks.

    DpwnShift,
    @DpwnShift@kbin.social avatar

    Vern?

    NetHandle,

    But is he... earnestly working on it?

    melroy,
    @melroy@kbin.melroy.org avatar

    well he did fix the reputation calculations.. https://codeberg.org/Kbin/kbin-core/pulls/462

    theodewere,
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    that would be disastrous, and just serve to make sure this platform ends up like reddit

    PazuzusRevenge,

    Agreed. I upvoted AND boosted your comment for redundancy.

    Kichae,

    They're not redundant functions. They're... Mixed up on kbin right now, because things were originally built with the up button boosting content, but that's incongruent with how Lemmy does it, so it was changed.

    But boosting isn't really about sorting at all. It's about republishing content, so that it can be sent out to instances that have started following a group after the content was originally posted.

    ShadowRam,

    I believe it is more akin to 're-tweeting' for your followers.

    All boosts you boost are not private and everyone can see everything you have boosted

    Kichae, (edited )

    How it's interpreted it is entirely up to the UI layer. On microblogs, it's surfaced as a retweet-like behaviour, but it's not surfaced at all here, really, except on kbin where it's used to report who has reboosted something.

    At its core, it's a republish button, and just as if you were to republish someone else's blog post on your own blog, people can see, if they look closely enough, that you've done it.

    artillect,
    @artillect@kbin.social avatar

    If you follow someone on kbin, and they boost a thread, it'll show up in your feed. It's sorta like crossposting to your user page on reddit

    Phlogiston,

    This makes sense — but if nobody knows it there is lots of room for confusion.

    “Boost” seems more like “updoot” than “retweet“. Perhaps more importantly why would one retweet a comment? Rather than a post?

    Kichae,

    Perhaps more importantly why would one retweet a comment? Rather than a post?

    The way content propagation works here is that someone using Website A follows a remote content source (either a user, or a group -- aka a "community" or a "magazine"), and the remote hosting website (let's call it Website B) sends all subsequent content from that source to Website A, where the requesting user can then view it. If someone from Website A was already following that content source, then they get to see all of the content that Website A had already received, and benefit from earlier users efforts. But if that person was the first from Website A to subscribe to that content source, then they only get future content.

    It's very similar to a, well, a magazine subscription in that way. NatGeo isn't sending you their 150 years worth of back catalogue when you subscribe in 2023 (not that you should bother subscribing to NatGeo in 2023).

    The 'boost' button republishes content, though. Posts, comments, whatever. Hitting 'boost' on a comment republishes it, and once republished the group actor (the little bot-like construct that functionally is the group) sees it as new content, and pushes it out to everyone following it. This means it will reach websites that started subscribing to the group after the comment was originally posted.

    Boosting is how older content (where older basically means "from anytime before literally right now") spreads through the fediverse.

    AnarchistArtificer,

    Thank you so much for this explanation, it really helped some of this click for me. I don’t use kbin, so the boosting isn’t so relevant to me, but I’m beginning to understand some of how the federation works together.

    Kichae, (edited )

    I'm not sure how Lemmy syncs and backfill, but under its hood, I imagine it's doing the same thing, just automatically. Lemmy groups are really spammy with boosts when viewed from Mastodon, for instance.

    Sorchist,

    So this is one of those things like git, where you can't explain how it works on the surface to a normal person because it barely even makes sense if you don't know about the underlying plumbing. :\

    Not awesome, but I guess that's what you get when you graft a reddit-like experience onto a fediverse that was more or less invented for microblogging.

    density,
    @density@kbin.social avatar

    is following individuals a common thing on lemmy/kbin?

    on reddit ti was possible but virtually nobody did it. all about the community not "influencers".

    What I want to do is sho approval to the OP and make the post more likely to float to the attention of someone who will want it..

    UnshavedYak,

    Yea, i'm working on my own Fedi software and i'm struggling with the point of boosting in the link aggregator context. It's an odd overlap with Reddit-style reposting to appropriate subs, but based on the user.

    It makes sense in the Twitter UX, but i struggle to find it's place in the Reddit UX.

    luna,

    I think boosts have potential to be used for crossposts, and the current implementation are just crossposts to your profile. Though they're likely here right now just because Kbin is a mix between thread and microblog software

    RheingoldRiver,

    yeahhhhhhh if boost came with like a menu: "Boost to: -Your Personal Microblog -Magazine's Microblog [pick] -Magazine as Article [pick]"

    then the feature would be pretty baller

    (actually im not sure if your personal microblog exists so...maybe just the other 2)

    Kichae,

    Boosting is super important in all contexts in the Fediverse.

    When am instance subscribes to a content source - be that a user actor or a group actor - on behalf of a user, it only requests future content. Back catalogues are not fetched by default. Boosting re-publishes the content, so that it is received by new followers.

    With a group actor, the boost triggers the actor to reboot the content itself, sending it out to new subscribers to the group, and filling in that back catalogue.

    aidan,
    @aidan@kbin.social avatar

    I like this comment but I don’t know what im supposed to do about it

    Kichae,

    Boost things.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    if old content isnt fetched for a newly subscribed instance to see, how are users going to boost that content in the first place?

    Kichae,

    Users who can see the content need to boost it?

    Users who use the website that the community is hosted on have access to the full library of it. They need to boost stuff. And people who subscribe from remote sites need to boost older content that they've seen.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    but relevant users cant see it, its never fetched for them to see it. Sure users on the home instance can see it, but they're on the home instance, it's already fetched for them. Ive run into this problem on here, where there is a lot of content on other instances that isnt visible from kbin. I have the option of visiting the home instance to see it, but it takes me completely off of kbin, I cant boost it from that page.

    Kichae,

    Someone just needs to follow. The community owner either needs to seed the community to big instances using accounts on them, or people who find the community via other instances need to subscribe and know that fresh content will come. Then they can boost older content from the hosting site.

    Things take some conscious effort here. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    blazera,
    @blazera@kbin.social avatar

    "Then they can boost older content from the hosting site." No that's the problem. Like you yourself said back catalogues arent fetched. They can't see the older content to be able to boost it, they'll only see new content.

    Kichae,

    If my instance follows a community at time t = T, and your instance starts following it at time t = T+10, I can boost content posted between T and T+9 so that you can see it.

    Meanwhile, if people on the hosting instance boost things posted from times earlier than T, we both get to see them. Then, once they're visible to us, we can continue to boost them for new instances to see.

    Johngi,

    If boosting is meant to be a solution to the back catalogue problem, then it's a horrible way to do it. You'd have to go through and boost every single post from before the hosting instance was followed, and then it'd only show up the user page of the guy who went to all of that effort? (or, realistically, bot).

    If what I'm saying is accurate (and I'm still not sure because this is admittedly a bit too complicated for me) then it doesn't sound very useful since individual profiles aren't nearly as important in a forum context when compared to something like twitter, and especially when you can just upvote something and have that show on your profile. Unless I'm mistaken and anything you've upvoted doesn't propagate to another automatically instance while boosts do... but I don't think that's a big enough distinction to have two different buttons? You could just have an upvote also do that.

    Kichae,

    then it'd only show up the user page of the guy who went to all of that effort?

    Where are you getting that impression from?

    IronDonkey,

    This seems needlessly convoluted.

    Kichae,

    This is why the functionality was hidden behind the upvote button initially, but people wanted the arrows to match the arrows on Lemmy.

    FaceDeer,
    @FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

    I see it as similar to the "save" function on Reddit, except it's public. I've started using it on things that I think I might like to read again later (and so by extension anyone who's "like me" would probably want to read it too).

    Kichae,

    Should they? It seems to me that we should have way, way more control over how we choose to sort things.

    That should be one of the options, of course, but we can have so much more here.

    TwistedTurtle,

    I literally do not see this boost button anywhere. I just spent 2 minutes mousing over every button around your comment and I cannot find it.

    artillect,
    @artillect@kbin.social avatar

    Boosting is only available on kbin

    Nim,

    I second this. It should be a simpler UX

    DougHolland,

    "Boost" comes across as a bug, not a feature. People should have one vote, not two.

    theodewere, (edited )
    @theodewere@kbin.social avatar

    i disagree, it's a great functionality that people should learn.. and here's the simple point.. you can BOOST a comment you disagree with, so that your argument AGAINST the comment will get more visibility.. reddit is dysfunctional, and this mechanism can help fix one of the problems reddit cannot get rid of.. this mechanism can help discussion, and fight against things like brigading..

    think about it a minute.. someone makes a really TERRIBLE point that you can dismantle easily.. tear it down, and BOOST the hell out of it.. reddit cannot accommodate that.. keeping those two functions separate is critical..

    this will help keep every thread from becoming a popularity contest that is entirely predictable, once people figure it out

    edit to add: i've only been using this platform for a few days.. but i promise you, it works the way it's supposed to.. try it out..

    Gargleblaster, in Today, My Subscribed community finally supass my joined Sub reddits
    @Gargleblaster@kbin.social avatar

    Here or on reddit?

    xep, in Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program termination

    Obvious by now that scamming gullible people is the only use case for crypto.

    HubertManne,
    @HubertManne@kbin.social avatar

    whats sad is it does not need to be. gridcoin has a steady value based on the grid computing it provides (outside of a brief spike when idiots where buying anything labled as crypto). As far as I know its the only example where the value has any meaning.

    RheingoldRiver, in Reddit mods dumped tokens hours before blockchain program termination

    Huh? Didn't they start this like last month? Or is this not the "get money from your contributions" thing?

    CoffeeAddict, in Looks like Reddit is removing the ability to opt out of personalized advertisements.
    @CoffeeAddict@kbin.social avatar

    To the surprise of no one here, they are continuing to make reddit worse.

    Neblib,
    @Neblib@mastodo.neoliber.al avatar

    @CoffeeAddict guess we'll see another kbin/lemmy + masto bump soon.

    nicetriangle,
    @nicetriangle@kbin.social avatar

    just wait until they start monetizing karma. it's gonna turn that site into a race for the bottom

    squirrel,
    @squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Don’t forget their plan to allow users kick out mods and then imagine how people with monetary interests will conspire to kick out mods that stop from from maximising their profits…

    Haui,
    @Haui@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    I hate that you’re right.

    squirrel,
    @squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    I hate it too. As much as I enjoy Lemmy, Reddit was my go-to social platform thing for a long time. I hate to see it being mismanaged by an incompetent fool like Spez.

    Haui,
    @Haui@discuss.tchncs.de avatar

    Same. It’s heartbreaking. But people were/are not ready/able to save it so we have to move on. As sad as it is.

    squirrel,
    @squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    At the moment my main gripe is that people still refuse to move to other platforms despite it all. I want to scream “It’s not going to get better, folks!” at them all of the time. But I am too tired to do it.

    Damaskox,
    @Damaskox@kbin.social avatar

    I wonder would one reason be that if "the most" of the community is there, it's just better to be there with the folks and the content rather than take a leap to a much smaller place and feel small or lonely or something like that...

    (I haven't used kbin/lemmy for more than an hour - seeing whether this is a new place to stay)

    squirrel,
    @squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

    Yes, of course. The network effect is buoying up Reddit as it is and probably will be until a critical mess of users leave it for good. Besides the obvious truth that Lemmy/Kbin are slower and that’s not what Redditors are used to who have learned to expect something new every time they update their frontpage.

    nicetriangle,
    @nicetriangle@kbin.social avatar

    Somehow missed that and well... fuckin yikes. Reddit is incredibly easy to bot, this will get abused in short order.

    bluGill, in Fediverse won't replace Reddit as long as Lemmy is the main platform being promoted
    @bluGill@kbin.social avatar

    I recommend kbin just because some of the people behind Lemmy are vocal far left wing. I want to support more moderates in the world.

    Hondolor,
    @Hondolor@kbin.social avatar

    agree. Part of why I liked reddit was that I could customize my feed to ignore political diatribe (left and right) and just read the feeds that interest me. Lemmy is so infested with leftists that it spills over into every part of their community

    fartsinger,

    Well of course it is, do you want to emulate reddit or not?

    hackitfast,

    One is the instances is owned by people who praise Stalin. Lemmy.world is not. And the code is open source so Lemmy is not really owned by anyone. All you have to do is switch instances.

    Gull,

    The creator of Lemmy, dessalines, is a tankie, and is also the main admin of lemmy.ml.

    hydro033, (edited )

    It worries me that you get a bunch of downvotes for this. People are way too accepting of political biases if they're in the direction they prefer.

    VectorSocks,

    Because it implies that basic, milquetoast progressive values are "far left".

    Chetzemoka,

    No, no there are literally tankies. Lemmy.ml the ml means marxist-leninist and lemmygrad.ml is just straight up tankie CCP apologists

    Crankpork,

    What's left wing about simping for dictators? Just because they called their countries "communist" to keep people from realizing, they were both effectively totalitarian dictatorships, and that's about as right as it gets.

    honorfaz,
    @honorfaz@kbin.social avatar

    @Crankpork they're left wing dictators? The wings are about economic policies. Communism is an ultra far left economic system like pure laissez-faire capitalism is an ultra far right economic system. You can be authoritarian or libertarian in either group. Or you can have more moderate economic views and still also have more authoritarian enforcement or extreme libertarian/anarchic lack of enforcement

    Aesthesiaphilia,

    Communism almost inevitably leads to dictatorship though. History has proven this. Capitalism can at least coexist with democracy to a degree. For all practical purposes, communism and dictatorship are a package deal.

    Chetzemoka, (edited )

    I mean, that's exactly my point though. People seem to be knee jerk assuming that the "leftist" accusations against the .ml instances are standard issue right wing hyperbole against progressive liberals and that's not the case. It's just as much that progressives are complaining because we have no interest in associating with tankies.

    BarbecueCowboy,

    I think the only real way for anyone to get it is to experience it. I thought it was bullshit propaganda too and I also thought I was relatively far left before first arriving at the .ml domain and further lemmygrad. I am still kind of surprised that we have a community out there that large that seems to legitimately identify with the 'tankie' ideology.

    It's a bit of a culture shock realizing that you might just be a progressive moderate.

    cowvin, (edited )

    That's actually really good thing. In the U.S. not wanting to kill trans people makes you a "far left" person according to right-wingers. real "far left" people are pretty nuts, man. The vast majority of us are moderates who are now labeled as "far left" in the U.S. political discourse.

    _thisdot,
    @_thisdot@infosec.pub avatar

    I dunno mate. Does identifying with a side lay out your viewpoints on every issue? I live in a communist-ruled state in India and I know of communists who don’t agree with the trans ideology. Due to religion and stuff, we also have far-right people here that consider trans people as gods.

    Mateng,
    @Mateng@kbin.social avatar

    In my experience, lemmy.ml and feddit.de (for example) are in more left wing then milquetoast progressives. It's faszinating and refreshing, and I don't mind people speaking their minds. But I prefer moderate, too.

    I would rather say that the average Redditor is milquetoast progressive. Heck, I start to really enjoy this phrase 😉.

    LordR,

    As my feed is populated by a lot of German threads it is worth to note that moderate depends a lot on the country you are from. Bernie Sanders would probably be considered part of the moderate left in most of Europe while he is considered to be far left in the USA.

    Ferk, (edited )
    @Ferk@kbin.social avatar

    It also depends about what specific topic we are talking about.

    In many places in Europe, being a social democrat when it comes to economy (like Bernie) might be considered pretty moderate. But then certain attitudes about non-binary pronouns or supporting special considerations for specific groups of people, are seen closer to "far left".

    You don't see the amount of virtue signaling in Europe that you see in USA media productions, for example.

    Bilbo,

    You need to do a little research before you get up on your high horse. They’re literal, self proclaimed communists. Lemmy was made because Reddit wasn’t left enough. They enjoy censorship and deny basic human right violations, and parrot CCP propaganda. They’re tankies. That’s why the devs instance isn’t federated with many of the major ones.

    This is partly why kbin exists.

    Wtf. I accidentally deleted my comment two times. Lemmy mobile UI fail!

    NewWorldOverHere,

    Thought I was getting déjà vu while reading your comments lol. Glad you explained why I saw it so many times!

    I agree with your foundational stance on using kbin vs. Lemmy due to the political beliefs (‘Tankies’) of those on Lemmy.

    But, I’d never heard of them referred to as far left before. In my mind, Bernie is generally considered far left in the US (even though I wish he wasn’t).

    I am glad that others provided their explanations of left vs. progressive because it helped me to better understand why you said left (instead of right).

    The_Tribble_Juggler,

    I'm liberal, but I'm not at the "censor users criticizing the Chinese government because they're communist" level. I was also skeptical of what people were saying about the lemmy.ml admins (the original lemmy devs), but they're anything but miquetoast progressive.

    That doesn't represent all of Lemmy though. I just wouldn't recommend joining .ml

    Kantiberl, (edited )
    @Kantiberl@kbin.social avatar

    Oh don't even get me started on the downvote brigades from angry leftists around here. Don't you dare hold a moderate opinion around them, or they call you a nazi and tell you to go back to 4chan. You can read my post history. All I've ever expressed is the same sentiment expressed here, and I've been met with nothing but absolute vitriol.

    SoupOfTheDay,

    Because we saw what happens with Reddit. People come in claiming to be “moderate”, and very quickly shit like T_D starts popping up. Also center of the road politics in the US has had rights taken away from millions of people in just the past year, and it’s going to continue to erode them from more. I’m not telling you to change your political stance, but I am telling you that people see them as an attack because they have literally been attacked by “moderates”.

    Melpomene,
    @Melpomene@kbin.social avatar

    It's fair to want to ostracize those who claim to be "moderate" who are anything but, absolutely. Concerning civil and political rights, there should BE no moderate. Either you support people's fundamental rights or you do not. Either you support everyone's right to love, sex, and associate with consenting adults or you do not. Either you support people's right to choose what to do with their bodies or you do not. There's little left to discuss.

    Having said that, the US (and the world generally) has a terrible record, left or right, in supporting people's civil and political rights. I'm overjoyed that at least left leaning folk now support those rights, but it wasn't a decade or two ago that those on the left of the political spectrum were parroting many of the same things that the right now parrots. "Marriage is between a man and a woman." "Don't ask, don't tell." So while I am glad they've shifted, I'm always concerned that if the political winds shift again, those in power will sacrifice individual rights in the name of maintaining said power as they did before they decided that advocating for our rights was going to keep them elected.

    Zorque,

    "Moderate" doesn't necessarily mean centrist or unalienable, it's antithesis is extremist. Being moderate and supporting peoples rights to be who they are just means taking a more practical and slow approach.

    You need both moderate and more extreme views of progressivism, otherwise you get drowned in either. They support each other, they don't necessarily oppose each other.

    Melpomene,
    @Melpomene@kbin.social avatar

    Moderate has taken a negative connotation in the US, alas, where it means "okay with hurting some people but not as many as THOSE folk." Moderation in approach, I can get behind depending on the issue.

    nanoobot, (edited )
    @nanoobot@kbin.social avatar

    The defence against people pretending to be moderate is not to hit everyone who introduces themselves as a moderate in the face with a hammer.

    PM_me_your_vagina_thanks,

    What you call "moderate" is likely viewed very differently by other people, since I assume you're from the US, and US politics has become a far-right fucking shitstorm. The overton window has shifted so much over there that "moderates" are degenerate cunts to more reasonable people.

    snooggums,
    @snooggums@kbin.social avatar

    Your post history shows you are solidly on the right end of the spectrum based on your expressed opinions while trying to justify yourself as moderate.

    Kantiberl,
    @Kantiberl@kbin.social avatar

    How? Why would you resort to lying? I'm pro choice, I despise Trump, I'm pro gay and trans rights, I believe in UBI for everyone (as well as keeping the free market in place), pro legalization (of every drug), pretty anti gun but I still believe it's peoples right to own them, I think police should be completely reformed and prisons fundamentally changed to be places of rehabilitation. What opinion of mine shows I'm on the right end of the spectrum? Because I believe in nuance and civil discourse? That I think all humans deserve forgiveness and a chance to grow and become better? Please, do enlighten me.

    FaceDeer,
    @FaceDeer@kbin.social avatar

    The forced distillation of every single position to being somewhere on this "left" to "right" spectrum is the single worst thing to happen to modern political discourse, IMO.

    I'm a fan of the "8 Views" test, which tries to position views along four different axes instead of just one. Four is still too few but it's way better than what we've got now.

    Melpomene,
    @Melpomene@kbin.social avatar

    I do like the 8 views test, though even the political compass would be better than the current "two views" model.

    BaldProphet,
    @BaldProphet@kbin.social avatar

    Yeah, I'm with you. I'd say it's a serious problem that will drive potential users away.

    fenndev,
    @fenndev@fedia.io avatar

    You have the freedom of speech, not the freedom to be free from the consequences of that speech. I read your post history and couldn't really find a 'moderate' position, mostly far-right talking points and splitting hairs about semantics. If the shit that you're saying is indistinguishable from Nazi and fascist rhetoric, I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you that you may have to reexamine the people you caucus with.

    I also saw that you claimed downvotes and disagreements are an important part of online social interaction, and yet you're here complaining about "downvote brigades." I thought that was pretty funny.

    Kantiberl,
    @Kantiberl@kbin.social avatar

    Pretty insidious of you to imply that what I have expressed here is far right, nazism, AND fascism. Do you have any examples where I haven't been moderate? This is what I meant by downvote brigades, it's not just the downvotes. It's the snakelike way in which people (such as you) are arguing with me that I'm disturbed by.

    It's not splitting hairs about semantics when I've been called a nazi (multiple times now) for espousing NOTHING in the realm of nazism, and have in fact only condemned it. That's a huge problem, and it's my current focus here.

    I'm against authoritarianism from any side and I'm also against the deceptive bullshit you're trying to pull.

    cacheson, (edited )
    @cacheson@kbin.social avatar

    I think part of it is that leftists (myself included) don't like being lumped in with tankies. I didn't downvote though.

    The lead devs of lemmy are tankies, basically meaning authoritarian communists of the genocide-apologist variety. They also run the lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml instances.

    This is also why I signed up on kbin instead of on lemmy. The other lemmy instances are fine, but I don't want to contribute to the influence of the lemmy devs any more than necessary. Hopefully they try to pull something stupid and get forked off the project.

    exscape,
    @exscape@kbin.social avatar

    Why would anyone downvote for that reason though? That reason is why I upvoted. I'm firmly left-wing but absolutely not far enough that I can support their BS views.

    blightbow, (edited )
    @blightbow@kbin.social avatar

    Most likely because American politics frequently pound the talking point of "far left politics" when talking about the political opposition (moderate left at best from an overseas PoV), to the point where American liberals have been conditioned to assume that they are being spoken down to when this type of language is in play. American leftists are also very anti-authoritarian on average and do not appreciate being lumped into the same category as tankies by simple virtue of people only discussing left versus right.

    cacheson,
    @cacheson@kbin.social avatar

    It gets weird when we talk about this stuff on only one axis (left-right) rather than two (left-right/libertarian-authoritarian, though that's still a simplification). Specifically, I'm an anarchist, which means I'm part of the "far left". Anarchists, along with "ultra"-communists, are seen as being to the left of Lenin/Stalin-style communists. Saying that the problem with the lemmy devs is that they're "far left" implies that people like me are the same as tankies, and we kind of resent that.

    gentleman,

    @cacheson This exactly. It’s why I didn’t join there and wound up here instead. Communism is a misnomer at this point - all that is left is the authoritarian/totalitarian/Putinistas. Tankies and Putinistas are the same to me. Trumpists are the same to me. The only time I’m associating with those people is across from them at their next US insurrection.

    @Fizzee @bluGill @hydro033

    JamesGray,

    What's the moderate position between "trans people should not be allowed to exist in society" and "trans rights are human rights"? You have to understand every time you or anyone else says some shit like this you're basically crying that people are taking a position instead of just watching the right wing try to ruin peoples lives.

    The supreme court literally ruled to allow businesses to discriminate against people based on sexuality yesterday.

    Crankpork,

    This. While things are new, and nothing has taken the place of "service that everyone uses", LGBTQA+ people are going to avoid the unsafe places which is going to push discussions further and further right. A "moderate" position that treats the bigots the same as people who just want to live and feel safe isn't moderate at all.

    Briguy24,

    An actual moderate position there is to just not go out of your way to be an asshole. But some people want to be assholes and vilify those who may not be able to protect themselves. I can't stand the people who want to 'debate' human rights. No, that line of thinking isn't welcome going forward.

    Kantiberl,
    @Kantiberl@kbin.social avatar

    I firmly believe everyone has the right to live freely and to find their own path, provided they don't harm others. Hate speech and violence have no place in our society, and I wholeheartedly stand with the trans community in advocating for their protection.

    Nonetheless, here's a viewpoint I have that I know is not accepted, but I'll share it anyway. I believe the compulsion of speech, particularly insisting that all of society adapt their language to accommodate individual identities, is a terrible approach. The notion of forced speech is problematic to me, and worries me greatly.

    That said, I believe it's important to work towards a society that respects every person, but without mandating how we perceive them. Life's journey is all about confronting adversity, and part of this involves learning to navigate the world as it is, not necessarily as we'd like it to be. Instead of dictating specific definitions, it might be more beneficial to cultivate a culture of empathy, understanding, and open dialogue around these issues. This perspective is unpopular and contentious, but it is a conversation that we should be willing to engage in.

    Anyways that's what I see as the moderate take, and it's what I believe. I had to tiptoe pretty hard there and I'm sure what I said still comes across as hate speech to some but I don't feel it is. It's just my opinion. I wish there was a place I could express it and have an open debate with people about it. We can't eliminate half of society, and we're going to have to learn how to empathize with people we disagree with in order to actually see where they are coming from.

    JamesGray,

    Nonetheless, here's a viewpoint I have that I know is not accepted, but I'll share it anyway. I believe the compulsion of speech, particularly insisting that all of society adapt their language to accommodate individual identities, is a terrible approach. The notion of forced speech is problematic to me, and worries me greatly.

    Is this the fucking Jordan Peterson position? Whose speech has been compelled? A man walked into a Philosophy of Gender class this week in Canada and stabbed three people, so sorry if I'm a lot more concerned with the constant hate speech being levied against LGBTQ+ people than I am with the anomalous concept of "compelled speech" which has not as of yet been an issue and only exists in the fever dream of transphobes who want to actively misgender people while working in public positions in Canada.

    nanoobot,
    @nanoobot@kbin.social avatar

    I agree with you, but this is a really bad counterargument to what they said. Even widely agreed politeness conventions to a degree 'compel' speech, so the debate is really around what speech is acceptable for society to encourage/suppress, rather than whether cultural changes are changing what people are compelled to say. Also, I don't think they said anything that suggested they are more concerned by that than hateful violence?

    be_excellent_to_each_other, (edited )
    @be_excellent_to_each_other@kbin.social avatar

    I believe the compulsion of speech, particularly insisting that all of society adapt their language to accommodate individual identities, is a terrible approach. The notion of forced speech is problematic to me, and worries me greatly.

    ...

    Instead of dictating specific definitions, it might be more beneficial to cultivate a culture of empathy, understanding, and open dialogue around these issues. This perspective is unpopular and contentious, but it is a conversation that we should be willing to engage in.

    Anyways that's what I see as the moderate take, and it's what I believe. I had to tiptoe pretty hard there and I'm sure what I said still comes across as hate speech to some but I don't feel it is.

    If you had to tiptoe pretty hard then what you wanted to say was worse.

    What, exactly, is the harm in calling someone a "He" who considers themselves a "He" or a "They" if they prefer, or "She" if they prefer?

    Do you consider all social conventions about how we address people to be "dictating specific definitions" or "compulsion of speech?"

    Can I decide to call you the opposite gender of what you know yourself to be, and you have literally no feelings about that? What about using words like "Sir", or "Ma'am?" Have you felt unfairly compelled each and every time you've had to use them? How about "Doctor?" "Mr.?"

    JamesGray,

    It's actually even stupider than they're presenting it to be. The speech that was being "compelled" was explicitly not intentionally and repeatedly misgendering someone after being informed of their identified gender while working in a publicly funded position. I.e. when someone is acting as an agent of the government of Canada, they're not allowed to intentionally misgender people.

    They can literally quit their jobs if they don't want to do that, our speech is constantly compelled in similar ways in the workplace but they never care about that, because that's how jobs work. I may want to tell customers to go fuck themselves if they're rude, but I'm compelled to smile and nod and keep that for the break room afterwards if I want to keep my job.

    jcrm,

    That's a lotta words for "I don't respect what people want to be called". When you call someone by the wrong name and they correct you, is that also compelled speech to you? Because that's all pronouns are. By your definitions all of language is compelled speech, because you're being forced into using specific words to communicate.

    It can be your opinion all you want, but it's one you should evaluate and change, because it doesn't make any goddamn sense.

    Metaright,
    @Metaright@kbin.social avatar

    The problem is that nobody (or at least very few people of actual influence) are legitimately saying that trans people shouldn't get to exist. I have yet to see any politician, for example, express such a belief.

    JamesGray, (edited )

    Michael Knowles called for the "eradication" of transgenderism at CPAC this year. Please shut up (E: corrected the wording he used, because he said "eradication" not just that it shouldn't exist)

    Metaright,
    @Metaright@kbin.social avatar

    Was he talking about the people themselves, or the phenomenon of being transgender? That is a very important distinction.

    JamesGray,

    No, it's not an important distinction. If you remove the ability of trans people to transition to their identified gender then you're relegating many of them to suicide.

    Metaright,
    @Metaright@kbin.social avatar

    What if they never wanted to transition in the first place?

    JamesGray,

    What the fuck is that supposed to mean? Trans people exist, so "eradicating" transgenderism only really has a couple options:

    1. detransition all trans people and do not allow any other trans people to transition, socially or medically
    2. kill all trans people

    Maybe if you're really stretching the definition of "eradicate" you could add an additional option:

    1. remove all trans people from public life, do not allow the discussion of transgenderism or the presence of trans people in public spaces
    jcrm,

    Then they don't transition. Unless you want to make up some imaginary enemy to validate your hate.

    bane_killgrind,

    You haven't been listening.

    Treedrake,
    @Treedrake@kbin.social avatar

    I mean, you don't have to be a tankie that defends North Korea or the uighur genocides, to respect those values? Which is the main problem with Lemmy devs and main instances.

    JamesGray,

    You're gonna need to be a bit more specific than that, because "defends" often does a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to issues like that being discussed from a leftist perspective. Did they outright say North Korea is perfect or there was no human rights issues with the treatment of the Uighur people in China? Or did they say the situation in Korea is more complicated than is presented by the west because we've embargoed them for more than half a century at this point and point out how the Uighur genocides are not that different from what happens in ICE camps in the US to this day?

    Bad things happen all over the world, and I don't think China or DPRK are perfect by any measure of the word, but presenting them as the axis of evil and ourselves as the good guys is just silly. It's not that they're good, it's that we're cartoonishly evil too.

    Anna,
    @Anna@kbin.social avatar

    What rights do trans people not have?

    The Supreme Court ruled to give businesses the choice to turn down customers. I thought you guys were all about choice?

    Alleywurds, (edited )
    @Alleywurds@kbin.social avatar

    Trans rights are human rights because trans rights are rights to bodily autonomy.

    If you think bodily autonomy is a human right, then you think trans rights are human rights.

    If you don't think bodily autonomy is a human right, then I guess have fun licking boots.

    LordR,

    What is your definition of moderates? As I see it a moderate in Europe is vastly different to a moderate in the USA.

    I think it is hard to figure out what you understand as moderate without seeing knowing about what you political opinions are.

    AlternativeEmphasis,

    You're being downvoted because people don't understand you're not talking about "far left" like some Trumper. You mean literal tankies, which absolutely yes some of the Lemmy Devs are as well as Lemmy.ml. It's also a reason I selected Kbin.

    Treedrake,
    @Treedrake@kbin.social avatar

    While I'm quite left wing, I have huge problems with them (as well as the main dev) being authoritarian, genocide-defending tankies. That praise China, Russia and DPRK. It's maddening.

    goryramsy,

    And lemmy has a commie problem too.

    smellythief,

    Then pick a server that’s not run by “the people behind Lemmy”. Solved.

    anteaters,
    @anteaters@feddit.de avatar

    Turns out people who work on open source in their free time to make the internet a better place for all are usually left wing, while the righties try to make money and fail.

    FlowVoid,

    That’s like saying you don’t recommend Linux because you disagree with Linus Torvalds. Using Lemmy or Linux does not advance any particular political agenda. And for the record, I like kbin.

    You know what does potentially advance a communist agenda? Buying a phone made in China. Which phones do you recommend?

    livus,
    @livus@kbin.social avatar

    Now you've got me wondering what Linus Torvalds thinks. The only opinion of his I know is that https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Linus-linux.ogg that used to do the rounds "Hello this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux as Linux".

    sheepishly,
    @sheepishly@kbin.social avatar

    I came to kbin hoping for exactly that, a moderate platform, and these upvote-downvote patterns are extremely concerning.

    NotAPenguin,

    This you?

    willya, in Did old.reddit.com just go down??
    @willya@lemmyf.uk avatar

    Nope, tested it just now and it still works. This is equal to posting a question that’s googlable. Thanks.

    Fiivemacs,

    Not even , you can skip Google entirely and go right to old.reddit.com to confirm

    JackGreenEarth, in Using gedit to read reddits

    I think you mean Geddit. Gedit is a text editor.

    jungekatz,

    Ah yes , gedit is a text editor !

    CoffeeDev,
    @CoffeeDev@lemmy.studio avatar

    Unlike Reddit, on Lemmy you can edit post titles, so you can fix this error.

    siipale,

    Yea. When I first glanced at the post title I was wondering how and why would you read reddit on a text editor. I mean I guess I would if I could read it in vim but not necessarily in gedit.

    McBinary, in thank you, spez
    @McBinary@kbin.social avatar

    Agreed! Now get out there and contribute to kbin specific magazines and be part of it!

    timdesuyo,
    originalucifer,
    @originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com avatar

    these are really cool, thanks!

    Critical_Insight, in Reddit censors story on Starlink losing over 300 satellites after it jumps to #2 overall in less than 2 hours on r/worldnews.

    Perhaps the mods have seen enough Musk spam. We need few of those over here at Lemmy aswell.

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