The transphobia stops now

This community is housed on an instance run by two trans women, focused on the needs of the queer and gender diverse community.

We allowed 196 here because we were promised the community is queer and trans inclusive.

If you’re here it’s because you’re aggressively supportive of trans folk. Not middle of the ground, not “just asking questions”.

If your response to that is, “yes, but…” then this isn’t the instance for you, and by extension, this isn’t the community for you.

tl;dr - Unambiguous support and inclusion, or fuck off somewhere else.

–

Edit - I changed the phrase "aggressive support to “unambiguous support”, as there was some confusion over the intent behind my previous phrasing.

thelsim,
@thelsim@sh.itjust.works avatar

You have my full support.
As a… whatever the hell I am… I support everyone to be who they want to be. No exceptions.

PrivateNoob,

Curious question, what made 196 so popular in the trans community? I have always seen some trans memes on Reddit, but it seems the ratio is even higher here (and some anti police stuff, idk I’m not american).

Is it because this is a place you can express yourself freely on the web, or is there something more to it?

ada, (edited )
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Honestly, I have no idea. We ended up with this community during the massive reddit migration because we are a queer focused instance, but I’m not sure of the history. I didn’t even know the community existed before that :)

LeylaaLovee,

I have no idea what the history of 196 being queer is, but it was an extremely queer subreddit. I think it has something to do with how many trans people also happen to be shitposters.

CreamyWeenie,
@CreamyWeenie@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It was the only (as far as I know) general shitposting community on reddit that wasn’t casually racist/homophobic/transphobic, because of this a lot of LGBTQ+ people flocked to it for their memes.

noisehound,

iirc, for awhile the first and only user flair available on r/196 was “trans rights”

Jimbo,
@Jimbo@yiffit.net avatar

Based

PrivateNoob,

Hmm that explains it then. Thanks for the info!

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

As far as I know the original subreddit this com came from was very trans, to the point where I, as a cis straight ally, was nervous that I was somehow not supposed to be in it. And I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one.

So I'm witchu

I must have good filters or something, because I don't think I've noticed any TP / TERFing in here. Sad.

(of course i follow from a mastodon account so i probably miss a lot of stuff)

LeylaaLovee,

Just so you know, before I say anything, I am happy that you’ve joined this community. I don’t want anything I say to seem like I’m discouraging you from participating. The overall point of what I’m about to say is that this should be a trans community. I don’t want you to feel uncomfortable because you don’t know if you’re allowed, but at the same time I wish that non-queer people as a group had to have a moment of empathy of “oh this place isn’t for me”. It’s a similar fear to how trans people feel in men’s and women’s spaces

196 is extremely trans oriented at this point, to the point that I’d consider it a borderline trans community. I like that it isn’t fully trans though. You know how often cis people have a monopoly on the conversation on a distributed community? There’s nothing necessarily wrong with cis people having that control, but why can’t trans people have that same space? Other people are allowed of course, but if we have to enter a separate reality for other people’s communities, other people should have to enter ours. There’s no way for us to force an equal medium, the best way we can enforce that is by wanting empathetic but easy experiences for other.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

WADR, that's really not at all been true.

https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/z1kzd6/r196_is_inclusive_you_dont_need_to_feel_excluded/

https://www.reddit.com/r/196/comments/y6v4kf/the_196_demographic_survey_which_about_6000/

LeylaaLovee, (edited )

You realize trans people are only 1 percent of the population normally right? Trans women representing 15 percent of the group is quite a large demographic.

Edit: sorry this sounds condescending, didn’t mean to make it so. Just explaining that statistically, there are a ton of trans people on here.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

I guess I don't know why you need to bring this up.

I'm fully aware this forum has a lot of trans folks in it. And I am happy to embrace that. But up till now there hasn't been any "please no cis folks" pressure in it, either.

It's not like 196 started out as a trans space. And there are definitely a lot of places that were. And I would tread very lightly in them if at all.

Is it even a bad thing for trans and cis to mix and enjoy things together? Isn't that, like, positive?

Sheesh.

LeylaaLovee,

It’s not “no cis folks” it’s asking to recognize that this is a trans space, on an explicitly trans Lemmy instance. Cis people can participate here the same way trans people can interact with cis spaces. If we want to enjoy it whatsoever, we just have to accept a certain level of shittiness to conform to those social standards. I’m saying that in a space where there are 30x more trans people than average, also on a dedicated trans server, yeah this is an explicitly trans space at this point. You may not like that, but I hate how Lemmy.world is pretty much entirely dominated by cis people, it is what it is.

Cis people can come here, they can even make their case for things they believe. People of different perspectives add to communities. Monoculture is never good. However, there needs to be some empathy in the way we feel like we’re walking on eggshells anytime we’re not talking to other trans people. We both feel like outsiders in the same way, and I don’t necessarily like that, but I also don’t think there’s any way to actually explain that in a truly applicable way. Lived experience goes further for empathy than anything, yk?

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

I would be sad if trans folks stopped communicating naturally in this space because in my opinion that's the main reason that makes the space worth being in.

sexy_peach,
@sexy_peach@feddit.de avatar

Also people remember to report assholes! Don’t interact, report them. Mods will handle it.

onichama,

TRANS RIGHTS FUCK YEAH 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

Darthjaffacake,

I’ll be honest I think alienating people feeling in the middle is a bad idea, making an echo chainber is ehat those other websites are for, and people on the middle ground are the ones whose beliefs matter the most as they they are the only ones that will change things.

BarrelAgedBoredom,

There shouldnt be any middle ground on the statement “trans rights are human rights”. If you think there’s room for compromise on the oppression of marginalized groups then you’re either a lost cause or willfully ignorant of the world around you. People that are in a safe space, specifically dedicated to them and people like them, have no obligation to educate or entertain disingenuous “discourse” about whether or not they should be allowed to exist.

Darthjaffacake,

That’s not what I’m talking about and yeah there’s no middle ground on the fact trans people should have human rights. I’m not sure how to put this into words but pretty much if you live in a place where you can’t see trans people around you (as in trans people not being allowed to be free and safe in public) it’s hard for people to just get a grasp on “this person exists and is trans and is a person” thats the big milestone. Getting people recognised as people. A while before i dated her i didn’t understand how to feel comfortable with the idea (much of it was through fun memes supporting trans stuff in non-toxic ways). But my point is that showing that trans people exist and are normal is really important for the world right now, we need the people in the middle ground to know that your rights are being violated and something needs to be done because the middle does change that vote the most.

lupuspernox,

Yeah I don’t know any trans people irl so everything I know about them is from 196. I was in no way anti-trans before I started lurking. I would have considered myself the “middle ground” because of my unfamiliarity with it, not because I wasn’t sure if they should or should not have rights. I really think this whole post needs to be rephrased because it would have turned me away back then.

regular_human,
@regular_human@lemmy.world avatar

lmao “middle ground” ugh

Lightsong,

Just wondering what does 196 means anyway? Clueless lemmy user here.

Ps I’m ally of LGBTQ2S+.

SamXavia,
@SamXavia@kbin.social avatar

@Lightsong

IronCorgi,

Sorry if I'm being dense but how does that relate to transphobia? Do the messages they post tend to be transphobic or something?

BedInspector,

All I know is that 196 communities have The Rule which is that you must post something before you leave.

Mozingo,
@Mozingo@lemmy.world avatar

Back on Reddit some dude and his roomates made a subreddit called r/195 (their dorm number). It only had one rule, when you visit, you have to post a meme. Eventually the public found the subreddit and started posting their own memes. It got huge and out of hand and some awful stuff started getting posted so they finally deleted the subreddit. That disappointed a bunch of people so a sequel was made, r/196. This community is a recreation of that second subreddit.

There1snospoon7491,

This should be in the sidebar so the lore isn’t lost.

PugJesus,
@PugJesus@kbin.social avatar

196 was a shitposting subreddit back on, uh, Reddit, which had one rule - you had to post before you left.

It became known as a very trans-friendly shitposting subreddit and honestly probably one of the better shitposting subreddits in general.

Now it's migrated at least partially to the Fediverse.

StarLuigi,
@StarLuigi@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

thank you so much for making this clear again ada, it was getting bad :(

tsz,

Yeah I have no problem with you being trans, I do have a problem with this goofiness. Good luck, friends.

MinusPi,

Defining people against hate speech is goofiness?

tsz,

That isn’t at all what this post says.

CYCLR,

Personally, I don’t think about other people’s sexuality all that much, so I guess that makes me a non-aggressive supporter.

It’s weird to impose this type of stuff, but I respect that this is your little space on the internet, so I’m leaving, as you asked. Thank you for the smiles and laughs.

TTH4P,

Aggressive support. I’m with ya.

ssfckdt,
@ssfckdt@mastodon.cloud avatar

trans is not a sexuality

CYCLR,

That’s for the clarification! Like I said, I’m not super into this whole topic

1stTime4MeInMCU,

“I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s greatest stumbling block in his strike toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice.’

Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Not to equivocate trans and black liberation because they are very different, but do you think “aggressive” or “non aggressive” supporter of race rights better slots into the whites who demonstrated their unwillingness to go along with racism or the ones who were like “I don’t care about your race, I’m not a racist, but how dare you ask me to support you in any meaningful or visible way?”

CYCLR,

Good point! I do think it’s important to support trans rights, but I’d be a hypocrite if I said I AGGRESSIVELY support the cause. There’s just a lot going on in my life right now, I just want to keep a clear mind, is all.

That being said, I never agree with or accept signs of transphobia.

1stTime4MeInMCU,

Thanks for replying. I don’t know OPs intent when they said aggressively, but I can’t imagine your description not fitting into some reasonable definitions of allyship. Most people (even queer people) are not hauling themselves to every protest. Calling out transphobia as uncool when seen is as aggressive as anybody needs, imo. I wouldn’t get hung up on the wording.

Aesthesiaphilia,

I don’t know OPs intent when they said aggressively

MILITANT SHITPOSTING

SEIZE THE MEMES OF PRODUCTION

ada,
@ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

What I mean by aggressively is, without caveats, without “but…”'s, without ambiguity. Your support needs to be clearly on the support side.

You don’t need to be an activist. You don’t need to be out marching or even commenting on trans stuff, but your opinion on trans folks should be unambiguously on the “support” side of things.

CYCLR,

Oh, that’s a much better description. I think I’ll stay for longer then, thank you!

LeylaaLovee,

Yeah. If someone is ever writing out “I’m an ally, but…” literally nothing good ever follows.

Sage_the_Lawyer,

That’s a quote from his letter from Birmingham jail, right?

While there are, of course, major differences in trans and black liberation, I read the full letter again recently and was shocked at how much of it was applicable to the current trans rights movement. I actually get the feeling that the two movements are more alike than they are different.

History repeats itself. I highly encourage everyone to take a half hour and read the full letter. Maybe if everyone took his words to heart, we could avoid some of the bullshit this time around. The conservative playbook of oppression hasn’t changed much. It’s just focused on a different target this time.

1stTime4MeInMCU,

I agree that there is a great deal to be learned and analogies to be drawn. However, I’m not a person of color so I didn’t want to unilaterally co-opt a movement that isn’t mine to take.

Sage_the_Lawyer,

Completely fair, and I totally agree! I’m also not a person of color, so I hope my comment didn’t come across as trying to co-opt the movement. Just wanted to, as you said, point out there are a lot of similarities and lessons that could be learned.

I, as a trans person, fully recognize that black people had it worse than trans people do now. While both communities face violence, black people faced violence that was heavily state-sponsored and far more widespread, even with the recent increased rates of violence against trans people. The entire U.S. legal system was rigged against them from the start. It was their blood that earned us the Civil Rights Act, which is the foundation our movement needed. And that’s a debt we will owe forever. And I also recognize that people of color continue to face discrimination. The fight isn’t over, for any of us.

I’m getting wordy. I think we’re both on the same page here. I guess civil rights discussions get me going (but tbh, I’m okay with that). Hope you have a great day!

DessertStorms,
@DessertStorms@kbin.social avatar

I quote that letter regularly, sadly those who need to hear it never do and always try to bring it back to the whitewashed MLK and "non-violence".

Here are a few articles I linked to someone recently who did that, that others might find interesting:

https://timeline.com/by-the-end-of-his-life-martin-luther-king-realized-the-validity-of-violence-4de177a8c87b

https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2021/1/18/martin-luther-king-jr-was-radical-we-must-reclaim-that-legacy

https://www.history.com/news/for-martin-luther-king-jr-nonviolent-protest-never-meant-wait-and-see

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/15/1175833143/mlk-martin-luther-king-jr-malcolm-x-quote-biography

BaumGeist,

Btw, I don’y think “equivocate,” which comes from equivocal, means what you’re trying to say (that you do not wish to position the movements as 1-to-1 matches)

1stTime4MeInMCU,

Thanks, I think you’re right! One of those words that somehow formed the wrong definition in my brain. TIL

KrimsonBun,
@KrimsonBun@lemmy.ml avatar

🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

girltwink,

Lemmy is in a weird state. I appreciate not seeing casual homophobia/transphobia in mainstream places like 196, but they’re also not exactly inclusive of actual out-and-grown-up queer people, and there aren’t enough people here yet for actual safe places to exist. I posted a comment self-referentially calling myself (a trans woman ) a “f-----” or something, and it got downvoted and deleted. This was a problem on reddit, where transphobes would report trans people for using self-referential slurs, and tone deaf reddit admins would ban their accounts. Now it seems like we’re going to do it again here.

d16n,

it’s still early, have hope!

tonnert,

Go go go. I’m so sick and tired of the hatred, the ignorance and frankly speaking, the stupidness.

I’m from a culture that is not very forgiving and tolerant, even though on the tin it says we are.

And it took me years to see and understand it. Now that I’ve conquered that ignorance, hell no we are not going to regress!!

AnAnxiousCorgi,
@AnAnxiousCorgi@lemmy.reddeth.com avatar

FUCK YES! I’m so glad to see this, the comments on some of those posts recently just gave such an ick feeling. Fuck transphobes. All hail glorious blahaj!

Anti_Weeb_Penguin,
@Anti_Weeb_Penguin@lemmy.world avatar

Wait, what happened?

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

From what I can tell, a stupid thread made by a confused cis straight person who was talking about why he wouldn’t have sex with a trans man. Then some transphobes showed up and were banned.

This instance is a safe space for sexual and gender minorities. If cis people want to talk about their sexual preferences with regards to trans people, there are a million and one other instances to do so in. This space is not the place to do so. It should go without saying that nothing that could even be perceived as mildly insensitive towards trans people should be tolerated here. This instance should be one place we can frequent without ever having to deal with any kind of cis and straight nonsense.

hawkwind,
@hawkwind@lemmy.management avatar

Was the OP a blahaj account, or someone from a different instance?

BraBraBra,

Does it matter? As long as you’re not harassing or hateful towards people and you grant them their freedom to exist as they want, there is nothing wrong with having a preference.

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Cis people have every other fucking space in the world. This one is meant to be safe for gender minorities. Cis people can go to any of the other instances on lemmy and talk all about their preferences with regards to trans people.

BraBraBra,

A member of the community specifically asked for his opinion.

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

That doesn’t change literally anything. No one on this instance should be encouraging that, and it should be removed when and where it comes up. Again, this isn’t just any instance its one meant to be safe for us specifically. I don’t care who brought it up, cis people discussing their sexual preferences towards trans people can do so on any of the other instances that are not safe spaces for us.

BraBraBra,

Then stop inviting cis opinions into your community. People asked do he answered. It’s that simple.

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

I never did invite cis people to talk about their sexual preferences here, trans people are not a hive mind 🙃 its also not my community, the two women who do own and run it have said outright this is a safe space for us.

BraBraBra,

Both the post and specific comment in question were the result of members of the community inviting the opinion of straight people.

Talk to the admins and mods🤷‍♀️

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Did you… read the post that we’re presently commenting on?

BraBraBra,

Yes. What’s your point? The author of this post agrees that the comment in question wasn’t transphobic.

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

Read it again. I never said the straight person was being transphobic. I said this is not the community for that. The admins agree.

I get sexualized and fetishized by cisgender men and women literally everywhere I go. Every space, every community, every platform. It’s never ending and I cannot fucking tell you how many times in my life I’ve had to deal with reading random unprompted opinions about how fuckable or unfuckable I am. This is not the space. This is not the community for it. Are you trans? Are you a gender minority? Do you have any frame of reference for what this is like for us?

BraBraBra,

It’s an open forum, and clearly some members of the community disagree since they are inviting opinions. Your options is to convince the admins to only federate with lgbt instances, or to make your own. Or maybe the mods can do that country club only type posts like in some reddit communities.

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

The community is not simply an open forum, it is made by and for gender minorities. This isn’t something the admins are taking votes on. The opinion of the admins is that this is a safe space for trans people.

And I’m not interested in compromises. Again, you have no frame of reference for what this is like. In all due respect, you’re talking to trans people about things you do not understand as though you do in any way understand them. You also have like 6 different comment threads going on all with trans people in this community who also expect this community to be correctly moderated to fit the standards of a safe space for trans people. So you’ve accused me a couple times of thinking the OP of the other thread was being transphobic. I havent said that. I said that this is a safe space for trans people and if people want to talk about how fuckable or unfuckable trans people are they can do it elsewhere. I don’t care who started it, this isn’t the place for it.

BraBraBra,

It is an open forum. When members of the community invite the opinions of straight people, they are able to see that and respond. It’s up to the admins and moderators to lock that down.

LeylaaLovee,

Nobody is asking for your opinion but you keep butting in with concern trolling even after people explain the issue to you. Fuck off dude

BraBraBra,

You don’t understand what concern trolling. I’m not concerned about anything. I disagree that the initial comment was transphobic. Quit making shit up to be mad about.

eestileib,

I think it’s totally legit to say you’re not attracted to a particular body configuration. It wasn’t OP that bothered me, it was all the turdbuckets who showed up to pilot on.

LadyAutumn,
@LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone avatar

It bothered other people, and its just not the place to have that discussion. Like I said, this instance is a safe space for sexual and gender minorities. That’s the intent of the admins of lemmy.blahaj.zone. And its the reason I chose to join here. There are other spaces on lemmy for cis people to talk all about all the different ways they do or do not want to have sex with or date trans people.

chumbalumber,

I think it’s fine to have sexual preferences, but it’s a bit weird to post about it, especially in a space heavily occupied by trans people. It would be like a white person going into a space, made for and occupied by black people, and talking about how they’d never want to have sex with a black person.

While the base point is fine, it raises the hackles because of the manner in which it’s put forward and the context.

samus12345,
@samus12345@lemmy.world avatar

It’s like if you see a random post with any kind of person in it, then proceed to explain why you would or would not fuck them. Completely unnecessary.

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