This is why I don’t fuck guys who “don’t pay attention to politics”.
That means one thing, and it isn’t that they are blissfully unaware of the day to day happenings in their town, county, state, region, country, or planet of residence.
I was responding to the previous comment, not OP. OP was saying conservatives get upset when people won’t sleep with them because they’re conservative. From the text of the comment I responded to, it looks like the person is saying “moderates” just don’t care about anyone but themselves. I’m adding that often the people the actual OP is talking about pretend to be the moderates the previous commenter is discussing.
It depends on why they don’t pay attention to politics. Personally, I kind of have to go ostrich-mode and bury my head in the sand when school gets stressful because I just don’t have the mental bandwidth to deal with both. I’m not going to judge someone too harshly for protecting their mental health from the absolute shitshow that is the American political landscape.
PS: This is not to say that any degree of modern conservatism is okay. Bigots can go fuck themselves and I’d be out punching Nazis and being a medic at protests if it didn’t jeopardize my future so significantly. (Felony convictions make it really hard to get a medical license and I have to pay off my student loans somehow. Besides, I’ll be in a much better position to make a meaningful difference as a physician than as a heavily indebted student or EMT.)
this. you can pay little attention to politics without being a “centrist” who isn’t actually a centrist. news can be depressing as fuck, i’m hella glad i strongly limited my consumption of them, but that doesn’t mean i’m gonna start both-sidesing shit. (with the exception of tankies vs nazis, because those two are in fact the same authoritarian, anti-west, bigoted crap under different flags that love to larp against each other)
In my experience, that’s the case 100% of the time. I’ve never once in my 30+ years heard a liberal say the same thing. It’s always Nazis Republicans trying to deflect and sweep their shitty views under the rug because they think it’s some kind of trump card to get around their awful views and have civilized society allow them back in so they can spread their hate.
I think there’s a difference between someone who doesn’t pay attention to politics and someone who just doesn’t want to argue politics. Someone who doesn’t pay attention to politics at all is too sheltered and doesn’t understand the issues that have been going on and affect a lot of people, so a lot of those people don’t want to date someone who won’t be able to understand something vital to them and that has an effect on their lives. Especially since someone who hasn’t been paying attention likely doesn’t have a lot of the same principles and beliefs.
This is my go-to response whenever anyone wants to start talking politics with me. Mainly because whenever someone wants to talk politics it’s usually not because they’re liberal and I really hate talking with people who just want to prove that their opinion is the right one.
I’ll admit I’ve used it for similar reasons. What I really should be saying is “I’m sorry, but I don’t want to talk about this right now.” Maybe I’ll even be brave and say “I don’t want to talk about this with you.” but it’s rare for me to find a person I don’t want to hear at all from. That usually comes up because they’ve already made their arguments, and I’ve already accepted or rebuttal the points to my own satisfaction. At that point they’ll talk themselves into circles looking for justification for parts of their stance, but unable to articulate it themselves. I’ll listen to anyone’s views at least once, given I’m in the right mindset, but I still wouldn’t date someone I don’t morally agree with. Life partners should have higher standards than conversation partners, and aligning values is a bare minimum for relationships.
I bartend. I was working on Easter, and one of our semi regulars came in with a guy that she was obviously on a drink date with. They’d been at at least one other bar before they came in; they’d had a couple drinks, but weren’t past maybe tipsy.
At one point, she mentioned that the reason the last place they’d been to was slow was likely that it happened to be Easter. At the mention of the word the guy interrupted with,
“I REFUSE TO TALK ABOUT ANY POLITICS OR RELIGION!!”
To me this was a sign that this dude cared very much about religion and politics, but just like how scientologists don’t drop the Xenu shit on you right away, he wanted to wait until any prospective partner was in too deep before revealing how abhorrent his views are.
That regular isn’t my favorite person, but I was proud of her for pretty much ending that date after that.
I’ve never had anyone who said politics and religion aren’t good conversation actually be worth having those conversations with. Everyone else from every other walk of life has no problem having a nuanced conversation about that stuff, it’s only ever WASPs that get all indignant and force everyone else to stop talking.
One of my coworkers had asked something about trans people and bathrooms, and I started to say my piece, but mid sentence the owner comes back like “under no circumstances are you allowed to have this conversation here”.
Oh yeah, so threatening to say that I don’t care who is in what bathroom if they don’t do anything that violates another guests bodily autonomy.
So controversial and brave.
We’ve spent plenty of time talking about the different racist inspired restaurants in the area and the deplorable dog whistle specials they offer, never cared about that offending anyone.
The restaurant in question was the MoonCricket Grille, and they were offering $0.49 Bud lights after the outrage about them in honor of the 49 who died at the Pulse nightclub.
That’s literally a bar rule. Lol. Alcohol makes people talk like they are on the internet in real life. Doesn’t make sense to discuss nuance when you’ve been drinking especially with the touchy subjects.
Good lord the replies to this are sad. Believe it or not it’s a perfectly reasonable expectation to only want to date someone whose core beliefs align with yours (and, y’know, actually respects your rights as an independent human being.)
This is what so many of them think. If they really don’t have a problem dating someone left leaning it either means they get off on tearing down strong women or don’t really know what they believe and are still just parroting mommy and daddy’s beliefs.
As someone with a right-wing father and a left-wing mother: for fuck’s sake date people with your same beliefs. Deep disagreement on something like that is NOT something you can build a trustful relationship upon.
Holy shit, I can’t imagine being in such a relationship even just for a small amount of time. Having kids with someone I fundamentally disagree with is just on another level.
I guess if you’re not into politics/news at all, it can kind of happen. 🤷
Admittedly, we’re not in the US so the divide is much smaller, but Jesus Christ listening to them arguing over half the stuff that came up on TV has definitely not been a pleasant experience.
“in looking for a woman who will respect my core beliefs as an independent human being, which include not treating her like an independent human being”
The comments under that vid are fucking hilarious. If I go any further left I’ll fall off the universe, but I also live a self-reliant life in the forest where I chop my own wood, fetch my water from a creek, run and maintain solar installations, and treat my wife like the wonderful human she is. All while being the traditional provider and ‘manly’ man. My truck is big, because it needs to be when you are building a house and homestead with your own hands.
And all these parking lot cowboys in their spotless lifted trucks think that these values are ‘theirs’. Get fucked losers.
It’s fine to have dating preferences. The issue is when people who are just calling anyone who is conservative leaning terrible. If you don’t agree with someone’s political ideology, you should just respectfully disagree, not call them a terrible person.
Also, calling people evil for their options is a terribly way to convince them to change, it just makes them get really defensive. If you want to convince someone to change opinion, you need to have a respectful, insightful discussion.
The meme here didn’t even call anyone evil. That said, if you guys don’t want to be called evil, stop supporting evil shit.
Conservative policies not only rob women of the rights to their own bodies, it gets them killed too. Either conservatives openly support this or they’re somehow too naive to see what the politicians they vote for are doing, and both are good reasons for women to stay the hell away from them.
I’m genuinely curious what reason someone has to support them. Like genuinely. I look at Republicans and am like how the fuck can anyone that isn’t rich and in power be on that side? And then I remember the very potent tactics of fearmongering
who are just calling anyone who is conservative leaning terrible. If you don’t agree with someone’s political ideology, you should just respectfully disagree, not call them a terrible person.
but they are?? they advocate for oppression of any other group thats not them. why would you respect a person that wishes your disappearance???
But being racist isn’t an automatic loss of a vote for most conservatives. Sure - You can be conservative and not racist, but if you are voting for conservatives who are racist… What is the difference?
What exactly is the GOP doing that is racist? Isn’t racism explicitly unconstitutional? If a candidate was racist, I wouldn’t vote for them.
But I haven’t seen explanations for what they do that is racist. It’s just people who are calling them racist, and saying you’re dumb if you don’t think they’re racist.
I doubt you actually looked up what I’m talking about. Yes, both parties gerrymander, which I agree is an issue. But republican states keep getting sued due to unconstitutionally drawn maps that try to silence the black vote as much as possible
I hate to tell you this but that is the definition from like 30 years ago. If you look at their behavior now, they do the exact opposite (see basically any policy they’ve passed in the last 2 years)
It’s not the numerous postal service designations that people are pissed at though. It’s the bills that are making my friends flee the state that people are rightly pissed at. Not every republican is an extremist, but the extremists have control over the party and the rest of the party seems completely fine with them at the wheel. Either it’s extreme apathy or tacit agreement.
How do you have a respectful or insightful discussion with someone uninterested in being respectful or having insight?
How do you explain the suffering caused by separating children from parents at the border to someone who doesn’t see those people as human? To someone who thinks they deserve to suffer for existing in the wrong color of skin? At what point do you call a spade a spade?
The last conservative I matched with was immediately bragging about being unvaccinated, was in his late 30’s, openly religious, desperate for kids.
If you’re openly conservative, you’re baring your soul about women’s rights, and if women don’t want to sleep with you as a result, you made your damn bed.
Some women dig that. Not every woman believes the same things you do. There’s even a thing called the quiver full movement where people like the duggars deliberately have as many children as possible to outnumber people like you.
If there’s women who dig it, that’s their bag, but I’ve absolutely experienced an influx of conservative dudes trying to match with me and I’m openly liberal. Wild that these women exist but the dudes don’t seem as into them.
Because these guys don’t want the full trade off of gender roles the conservatives promote. Many conservative women expect dating with the intent of marriage and at some point having the husband be able to support a household where the wife stays home and takes care of the house and children.
Accidentally deleted but yeah I’ve noticed an influx of conservative men matching with me despite clear indications that I’m liberal. Unfortunately I do know these sorts of women exist, but maybe conservative men should seek them out instead of someone clearly liberal who doesn’t want to make their body a baby factory.
Alternately, because she’s attractive and some guys are idiots. For some guys “looks” overrides everything else.
It’s unreal how many guy will date a flat out manipulative, immature, mean asshole because she’s “hot”. Compared to that a decent human being is a catch, regardless of if they’re fundamentally incompatible.
That’s been Catholicism’s playbook since day one. There’s a reason they’re so against any kind of sex that doesn’t lead to procreation.
Course, it also used to be rooted in the fact that medicine was trash for a long time, and a lot of kids died, so you’d want to have as many as you could to give some a shot at living a full life. But that’s not the case anymore, so yeah, the only reasons to have as many kids as possible is as you say, to outnumber the sane people, and to keep the working class populated, so we inch closer and closer to Idiocracy becoming reality every day.
I don’t know why. I’m about as pale as you can get, and it is by far the WEAKEST of skin colors. We literally cannot go out in the sun without protection.
Sure, everyone should wear sunscreen, but I can get burnt walking out to the mailbox!
Ah. Sounds like you have fine genes my friend. The best genes.
Have you considered endless breeding?
Not only is it a lot of fun, but you can pass on those great genes you got there.
For real though, I have a red headed daughter and one that should have been a redhead. She got everything but the hair. The freckles, the pale blue eyes. A beam of light comes through the window and she starts smoking. Someone turns on a 100W lightbulb and she blisters. I get what you’re saying.
Most women (and men) believe the things their parents teach them.
The thing with conservatives is they want to 1) prevent any other information flowing to these women, religious indoctrination only 2) get these women pregnant young so that they don’t have a chance to gain independence
So yeah in those cases you have grown women who believe these things. The Duggars are an example of the ‘quiver full’ movement in action. Letting their son abuse their daughters young so that they get used to it and defend it as normal.
My parents used to fearmonger the everliving shit about LGBTQ+ and abortion, and as a small kid I ate that shit up. But then at some point, my brain probably developed some modicum of critical thinking and thought, wait a minute, why in the world does it matter to me what people do with their own lives, if it doesn’t even affect me or anyone else for that matter? Why are my parents, along with every single bigot, incorrectly think that they are entitled to weigh in on someone else’s life decisions?
Every single argument from them boils down to “because religion”, but as someone who was raised Catholic (agnostic now), one of the things that they taught me was quite literally to “love thy neighbour” and to not shit on people only because of their beliefs. So why are the very same people who taught me that now doing the opposite of what they preach, trying (and fortunately failing) to shit on other people just because they don’t have the same beliefs? “My religion says it’s not OK,” well they don’t believe in the same things you do and could not give less of a shit about what you believe, so why not just leave them alone and let them live their life? It was around that point that I realised they were just hypocrites, and absolutely nothing more.
I grew up extremely conservative christian (homeschooled, no tv, women don’t work outside the house) and was taught that anything other than married man and women was evil.
The thing is we were also taught critical thinking and logic albeit it was to compare “new teachings” against the bible. My parents always said since the bible is true [sic] it would stand up to any scrutiny. They thankfully never learned the lesson most christian leaders have that Christianity needs to be mandated for it to be effective. Obviously the bible did not hold up to logic and I’m now a proud atheist and in the process of healing.
Man, that’s worse than what I experienced growing up. Out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with atheism? Personally, I’m agnostic (I think that’s the right term) because I see no compelling evidence or argument for either side, and I am of the opinion that a human’s finite brain could never even come close to figuring out the answer. And no, the Bible isn’t evidence, not one that’s even close to being the slightest bit rigorous at least. To me, it’s as much evidence for Christianity as the Harry Potter books are for wizardry.
That’s not entirely true, most definitions of Agnosticism frame it as a different position from Atheism.
Plus, you don’t have to prove something to believe it, if you’re convinced that there is no god you can define yourself an Atheist, that’s it. Agnostics are just “on the fence” and have no horse in the race.
the view or belief that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable.
It is not related to actual knowledge. No matter the claims one can make, no one can be 100% sure whether a god exists or not. It’s called “faith” because people choose to believe despite the lack of irrefutable evidence.
Belief, on the other hand, is definitely a spectrum and you can be convinced or skeptical of affirmations from both sides. There’s also apatheists that simply don’t care whether it exists or not, or Ignostics that question the question itself. There’s plenty of people “on the fence”. The definition of Nontheism for example encompasses all those three, but not Atheism.
Agnostic Atheism is a position that’s very close to Atheism, but not all Agnostics are Agnostic Atheists.
I relate a lot to this. If asked “does God exist?”, my personal belief is always that we don’t know and that we will never know, and it doesn’t matter anyways so why bother? I do certainly see some value in religion, in that it does bring a lot of people comfort when faced with the concept of mortality, and that religious organisations do a lot of charity (this is true where I come from, at least). However, I do think that said value has been greatly diminished, if not perhaps even eliminated entirely, in the face of the attrocities people have committed in the name of religion, i.e. attempts at restricting women’s and LGBTQ+ rights, etc.
Belief is not a choice, you’re either convinced or you’re not.
Wikipedia can also be wrong on various topics so let’s not get nitpicky. But, if you want to look up Gnosticism on Wikipedia, you’ll see that being a gnostic means having knowledge.
So people can be either theists or atheists and at the same time gnostic or agnostic.
A gnostic theist would mean they believe and also know a god exists.
An angostic atheist doesn’t believe and also doesn’t know a god doesn’t exists. That’s most of us atheists.
So people can’t be on the fence and say I’m agnostic, that doesn’t tell anything about what they believe.
And when it comes to belief, you are either convinced or you’re not. There’s no middle ground.
I think we’re just entering semantics at this point. “Agnostic” has been used plenty of times as a position in itself separate from “Atheist”: even Thomas H. Huxley, who created the term, saw it as a specifically distinct thing from atheism, and so did Darwin and Ross at the time.
You can indeed have middle ground on beliefs, and the term has been invented for that exact reason: Huxley didn’t feel like he fit in any of the definitions that existed at the time.
The journey went: disappointment with God, angry at God, apathetic, agnostic, then atheist. I considered myself agnostic for a long time but it always felt a bit like a compromise for me, like it’s more palatable to think “Oh, I just don’t know one way or another” over seeing god as a stopgap for holes in knowledge.
Rather than the approach of attributing less and less to the divine over time, I decided to attribute nothing and go from there.
Saying that one can’t disprove god’s existence feels the same to me as saying a watermelon is blue inside until it’s observed.
Regarding your last point, we only know that the flesh of a watermelon is indeed red because we’ve seen it before. If, say, an alien would suddenly come to Earth and be presented with a watermelon, they would not know what colour it is without cracking it open or otherwise probing it with various tools (granted of course that they perceive colour like we do)
Attributing nothing to the divine is also the way I go about it. We have scientific explanations for most phenomenon we see on a daily basis, and for those we do not, I do think we will find scientific explanations for them one day. None of the mysteries of the universe that would later be answered have been caused by the supernatural, so I have no reason to think it will be different.
However, I do think that a lack of observable trace of a “divine being” is not necessarily an evidence of nonexistence. To me, my agnosticism is not a form of compromise, but a recognition of the limitations of humans, as well as an acknowledgement relative inconsequence the question of whether a divine being exists or not is to the universe and to my own life. If nothing in my life or in the known universe can be attributed to the divine, why does it matter whether it exists or not? If an extraterrestrial exists in some distant galaxy, surely it would not matter to them whether I exist or not. That’s the way I think of the idea of divine beings.
Anyways, it’s kind of great to be able to ramble about this on the internet, most of the people I know are religious and unfortunately would not be very tolerant of this type of viewpoint.
You seem to have confused Conservative politics with Fundamentalist Christianity. They are separate ideals but hard to find separately currently. Somebody can be a fiscal conservative and not buy into the social fundamental conservative position.
Check again, conservatives are no longer fiscally conservative and have not been for several decades. That facade has entirely fallen away to reveal the real:
fundamentalist christians
racists
filthy rich people who want tax cuts for the rich (do not confuse this with being fiscally conservative)
Those two sentences are unrelated since the GOP is pretty explicitly against freedom of speech given all their book banning and don't say gay bills and the like. Unless you're defining freedom of speech their absolutely brain dead way they use it of 'We're free to openly be as big of a piece of shit as we like with no consequences. If you use your freedom of speech to call us out, or use your freedom of association to kick us off your property you're oppressing us' in which case yeah, that's still a bad policy, naming a bad policy after a good one to trick people doesn't make it a good policy
Freedom of speech means you can’t be arrested for what you say. Any policies that ban certain types of speech are very clearly unconstitutional.
We’re free to openly be as big of a piece of shit as we like with no consequences. If you use your freedom of speech to call us out, or use your freedom of association to kick us off your property you’re oppressing us
Using freedom of speech to defend your opinion is literally saying “my opinion is valid because it’s not illegal”.
So the GOP is by policy against freedom of speech as you've defined it, and is passing laws that are unconstitutional, and thus the initial mention of freedom of speech is a non sequitur not intended as an example of GOP policy that isn't bad, got it, glad we established that. So do you have any examples of policies the GOP does have that aren't bad?
That is exactly what fiscally conservative means. That’s 100% what I expect when a politician has conservative economic views. Conservatives value keeping the status quo, and the status quo is capitalism, with the rich getting richer.
yeah, but people not in the know think it just means ‘prudent government spending’. What it actually means is funnel as much money from the government/taxpayer to the existing rich as possible. I think we are saying the same thing, cheers
That has nothing to do with conservatism. Just because some people who are conservative said that, doesn’t mean that that’s a part of it. Please attack specific ideas, not groups of people.
to be fair, the idea of voting with money still sucks because it gives some people a lot more votes than others, but when wannabe future billionaire conservatives can’t even get presently rich people to play along with their bootlicker bullshit that’s just funny
Not when they’re the ones boycotting businesses. “go woke go broke!!” is fantastic, according to the same people who are obsessed with opposing “cancel culture”.
My best guess is that something was wrong with her that she hid deep inside until it was let out
Probably. Reminds me a lot of the guys back in HS who would be super women positive and “feminist” when girls were in earshot, but say horrendously awful shit when it was “just us guys”(I wasn’t friends with them either, they just thought it was ok to say around guys in general), up to and including rape apologia in at least one instance. All asshole trump supporters now last I knew.
And they wondered why 90% of my friends in HS were girls.
Well, Republicans tend to vote for policies that go against their own self-interests if they get boogeyman’s enough by Tucker and Donald, so it wouldn’t surprise me that there exist Conservative women who date against their own self interests.
Gonna have to agree to disagree on that one, barring very different understandings of the word “stupidity.” Cognition and action are different things, and pretending they’re the same doesn’t improve the efficacy of interventions.
Ignorance is a choice, too. I’ve met so many people who are proud of being ignorant. I once met a woman who was in her mid 30s who was explicitly against learning new things because…reasons?
Seriously, conservatives want to pretend like we’re all just regular people so what do our political views matter right? But if The last 8 years have taught me anything it is that every conservative is some level of a bigot, even if you can get along with them, purely based off their political goals. Sorry, you can’t just work your ass off to deny people rights and sequester people you don’t like, then call it a “political view”.
ngl, last time some conservative started flirting with me she got pissed of when i said i wasnt interested because they were a tory flag shagger, and then she called me a slur because im queer
Y’all are the only ones that use the term. The onus is on you to produce a workable definition that can be written down without changing the definition when it’s convenient.
I’m willing to accept the definition Ron desantis’ lawyer used:
During the testimony, Warren’s attorney, Jean-Jacques Cabou asked those within DeSantis’ administration what “woke” meant to them.
The governor’s general counsel, Ryan Newman, said, in general, it means “the belief there are systemic injustices in American society and the need to address them.” He added that DeSantis doesn’t believe there are systemic injustices in the country, reports Florida Politics.
When you don’t actively kick out the terrible people in your group, you are making a choice to say “this is something I am willing to tolerate.” So I’ll ask, if you are a conservative and recognize that there are bad actors in your conservative party, are you calling out those bad actors? Or just putting your head down and joining rank and file because your party told you to?
I’m not a member of a political party. I vote for candidates, not parties. If you just vote for a specific party, which ever one that may be, that’s lazy. I don’t care if they’re republican or democrat, I care about what they value.
Also, you can’t really actively kick out member from a party, all you can do is just not vote for them.
It doesn’t matter what the political situation is, you should vote for specific candidates, not just blindly vote for your party, whichever one that may be, and then call anyone who doesn’t fully support your party evil.
You seem like an idealist, which I have some respect for, but you also have to account for reality. And the reality is, we don’t really vote for individual candidates anymore. We vote for one party or the other to have an additional vote. Elected politicians hardly ever vote outside of their party anymore. It’s not ideal but it is reality. If you vote for multiple candidates of different political parties, you’re just making noise.
And that’s a bad systematic problem. But voting based on the candidate should help to slowly fix it. While there is a very clear difference between democrat and republican, there are still differences between candidates of the same party.
If you vote only for the candidates that are closest to the center, then candidates will compete to be closer. But if you just vote for a party, then the candidates have to no incentive to compete.
Also, it’s basically impossible to get rid of supreme court justices, and for good reason. It allows them to rule on cases based only on what they legitimately believe to be the correct decision. The supreme court’s job isn’t to decide right from wrong, it’s to decide legal from illegal. If you don’t like their ruling, the way to change it should be through Congress, not though the courts.
“Why won’t women, objects meant to feed and pleasure me, give me the time of day like this super old-ass book I had read and interpreted to me by someone who is likely a child molester said they should? Do they worship Saytahn?”
You should date someone with at least some reasonable overlap of ideals. If you wish to have a family unit, like conservatives certainly do, you need to have common ground and mutual respect or you will end up with yet another single mother raising a potentially negative statistic and father losing his child or bailing.
Oh no, you gotta figure out what sort of situation works for you. It is beneficial to find someone that has some overlapping ideals as yourself, heck most of your friends and you probably already have some overlap you may not have thought about.
Do you not have an overlapping fundamental agreement with your partner about how the world works and what’s moral values are most important?
Like you’re not gonna agree on everything I know, but “are some people inherently better than others, should a justice system focus on punishment or rehabilitation, is education valuable for society, was the earth created by evolution or God, do you want kids(+ a couple questions if “yes”)” are, in my mind, things you need to agree on with the person you intend to share your life with.
So what you’re saying is: relationships require respect? Yeah, that’s one reason a lot of leftism is built upon respect for one another. Conservatism, the best I can understand stand it relies on feeding an outdated lie that there are multiple classes of people, some being better and more deserving than others.
But yeah, you don’t respect your partner you lose your partner, but that does not a conservative or conservative argument make.
This kind of shit was a big motivation for me to leave reddit, and now it’s already on Lemmy. Great.
You can have right leaning beliefs and not be a bigot. Hell, I’m not even right leaning but many of my friends and family are. They are not racist, sexist, transphobic… This kind of post just makes the left look childish.
ETA: you can have conservative views and not vote republican. The republican party is a fucking joke.
Sure you can lean conservative but if in the modern era you’re supporting and voting republican you’re either in denial, or complicit. There’s not much the Republicans have in common with conservative values these days.
Exactly. What’s so conservatism about trying to murder congress and overthrow American democracy again, like what happened on Jan. 6? These traitors sure aren’t trying to preserve the Union, that’s for damn sure.
Your friends and family might not be vocally bigoted, but actions speak louder than words and if they’re voting for a party that platforms on racism, sexism, and transphobia, then they are bigots. I hardly think it’s childish to avoid dating someone who would support a party that wants to strip your rights away.
Also, Lemmy has always been like this. You came to the wrong fuckin’ place, my dude.
No, what we look like is people who’ve tried to give the benefit of the doubt for ages and gotten fucked for it. We’ve run out of benefit to give. Conservatives are actively hurting people in North America (probably elsewhere too) and we see ourselves and our children on the chopping block if we keep giving leeway. So we’ve stopped. You’ll keep seeing more of this until conservatives stop hurting people. This meme is just a funny reflection of that. Maybe it’s even gonna make some gears spin in some people’s heads.
Exactly! You cannot support that party and be surprised when you get called a bigot. You’re playing with pigs and you smell like shit, bud. Conservative values eventually turn into hateful ideology 100% of the time. Conservatism requires someone to blame for everything, and they never blame the people actually at fault, they blame minority groups that are easy to attack and exploit.
Being conservative doesn’t make you a bigot. Being liberal doesn’t make you a bigot. What makes you a bigot is hating someone just for disagreeing with you, or being part of a different group.
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Assuming someone is evil just because they like Trump is quite literally bigotry. You shouldn’t hate anyone just because of their ideas. Attack actions and ideas, not people.
As I said it’s because the extreme right wing is allowed to dictate what happens, while the rest is just sitting there silently and voting in line with the party.
You can’t tell the difference between silence and agreement.
It’s easier to ignore when it’s not your loved ones at risk. I’ll stop giving a shit when people finally just live and let live. I’ll chill out when people can live their own lives in peace, without worrying about unprovoked violence. I’ll cool down about it when the murder rates go down. I’ll relax when people stop forcing women to bear rapists children. I’ll calm when people stop trying to remove human rights.
It’s simple, really. If you are against human rights, I want nothing to do with you. If you encourage or support people losing human rights, I want nothing to do with you. If you don’t care about these things because it isn’t you, we certainly won’t get along. I’m over “Wait and see”, because it ends with innocent people dead.
Abortion isn’t a simple human rights issue. Every human has a right to choose what happens to their body, and every human has a right to live.
But with pregnancy, these rights are at odds with each other. Who’s right is more important, the right of the baby to be born, or the right of the mother to not give birth? And at exactly what moment does this change?
Her body, her choice. The fetus is a parasitic clump of cells until it comes- out of the womb, and it is entirely up to her what she wants to do with it. The fetus does not have the right to be born as it is a clump of parasitic cells, not a person. Bodily autonomy is a fundamental right, the government cannot force you to donate blood, even if it would kill someone else who needs it if you didn’t. So why should a woman have to carry around an unwanted parasite that does permanent, often harmful changes to her body and can sometimes kill her?
The fetus is a parasitic clump of cells until it comes- out of the womb
An embryo is a clump of cells. A fetus is an incomplete human body.
The fetus does not have the right to be born as it is a clump of parasitic cells, not a person.
Almost everyone agrees that sperm or unfertilized eggs don’t have rights, but they do agree that a newborn baby has rights. At exactly what moment does it switch?
the government cannot force you to donate blood, even if it would kill someone else
There’s a difference between mandating and banning a medical procedure. (Birth is different, that will happen without any intervention).
can sometimes kill her?
If the mothers life is in danger, then an abortion makes sense.
This is not an easy ethical question with a right and wrong answer. Just because you feel strongly about your answer, doesn’t mean it is correct.
Bigot: a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Just supporting some policies of someone who is a bigot doesn’t mean you support their bigoted policies.
OK. Let me try. Trump espouses bigoted and non-bigoted policies. A person likes the non-bigoted ones. They vote for Trump. Their vote put Trump over the line. Trump enacts both the non-bigoted and bigoted policies. The person in question’s vote was the cause of bigoted policies being deployed. Policies that hurt other people. Does it matter whether the person supported Trump’s bigoted policies? The end result is the same. The person supporting Trump resulted in bigoted policies hurting people. That person bears responsibility in that result, as someone who voted for Trump. So what we’re saying is - you can’t hide your responsibility behind the book definition of a bigot. You could try but we see the results in reality and we will judge you by the results of your actions. We’re saying - look - your actions constitute bigotry in practice whether you realize it or not, and if you really believe that you’re not a bigot and you don’t want to be one, perhaps think about the results of your actions and what they produce in reality. Maybe don’t vote Trump next time. Replace Trump with any GOP bigot and the person in question with any American that’s in a similar position.
With the way our government works, it’s really hard to not vote for candidates that you don’t have at least some problems with. With the way presentational elections seem to be going, you end up having to choose which one is less bad. And in FPTP, voting for a third party is basically useless.
And not every GOP candidate is a bigot. I’m sure most, if not all of them, genuinely wish for the country to be better (same thing applies for any politician). It’s just that disagreement over how to make the country better had devolved into name calling, which is a terrible way to get people to change their opinions.
I don’t change my opinion because someone calls me a bigot. I’ll change my opinion if they can show me how my view is flawed, and why their view is better.
With the way our government works, it’s really hard to not vote for candidates that you don’t have at least some problems with. With the way presentational elections seem to be going, you end up having to choose which one is less bad. And in FPTP, voting for a third party is basically useless.
And yet that doesn’t change the dynamics of what I described. This is why every voter who has problems with whoever they’re considering voting for should be weighing the bad parts. We know how GOP voters weigh the bigotry that comes with voting for its reps. That’s all we need to know. The truth is literally laid bare.
I’m sure most, if not all of them, genuinely wish for the country to be better (same thing applies for any politician).
That’s a nice thought. I see you still haven’t run out of benefit of the doubt to give.
I don’t change my opinion because someone calls me a bigot. I’ll change my opinion if they can show me how my view is flawed, and why their view is better.
That’s your prerogative. We’ve ran out of arguments to give. “We” is the many people I know who are of this opinion. I’ve yet to meet a conservative that’s arguing in good faith and is willing to change their view when presented with a sound argument. That’s where we’re at and it ain’t our fault. We’ve spent years of our lives trying and gotten nowhere. The radicalization is just getting started.
We know how GOP voters weigh the bigotry that comes with voting for its reps. That’s all we need to know. The truth is literally laid bare.
Bigotry is a 2 way street. Candidates from both sides are clearly bigoted at each other. I try to vote for candidates who’s beliefs match with mine, but sometimes that’s hard. Everyone deserves to be respected, even if you don’t agree with them. But so much politics has just turned into calling names.
That’s a nice thought. I see you still haven’t run out of benefit of the doubt to give.
I think the issues are systemic, not individual. It doesn’t make sense that so many people would be evil. Look at the Milgram experiment. It shows that the average person will literally commit murder in the correct environment. So does that mean the average person is evil?
I’ve yet to meet a conservative that’s arguing in good faith and is willing to change their view when presented with a sound argument.
I am. Although I’m not just conservative. It really depends on the subject, sometimes I’m conservative, and sometimes I’m liberal. I really want to avoid just picking one side, and saying the other side is evil.
I don’t see how people who aren’t racist, sexist or transphobic could vote for conservatives when 75% of Republican campaigning (other than “guns and taxes!”) is focused on being racist, sexist and transphobic. People who aren’t any of those things are turned off by it and would not vote for republicans.
While true I think, as long as you’re not some kind of an extremist, your political views don’t matter that much, unless you’re in America. Most people have their opinions vary on the political spectrum, some views are conservative while others are liberal. But in America it seems like you’re either 100% liberal or 100% conservative and anything inbetween is hated by both sides. So you have to know if they’re with you or against you.
Lemmy was created by communists for communists, conservatives, “centrists” and liberals gtfo out
You can have right leaning beliefs and not be a bigot
the entirety of conservativism is openly classist, the entire ideology is built on ruthlessly attacking and stripping away protection for those most vulnerable in society. Besides, just because your family wont openly call me a slur for being trans it doesnt mean they aren’t supporting a party who market themselves on wanting to strip away my rights. Frankly, you cant be pro-american at all without implicitly supporting the horrific crimes they have historically committed whether within their own borders or outside.
One of the most self-damning things about Republicans is how quick they are to start defending allegations of bigotry, racism, sexism, transphobia, treason against America, etc. upon the first mention of conservatism, without noticing that they’re usually the first to bring up those topics. It’s almost like the very concept of conservatism and bigotry against people for their “station” at birth are inseparable, and any attempt to pretend otherwise is just that: pretend.
people can be disinterested in dating each other for any reason they want, it’s not like you have to reach some level of hatefulness before they can say “i don’t care for your politics and i’m not interested.”
“Many of [your friends and family]” vote for legalizing racism, sexism, and now literally the attempted overthrow of the United States of America. If your friends and family vote for that and vote for taking away peoples human rights, they’re terrible people. Maybe they’re nice to you but they’re actively ruining other people’s lives. Your cowardice in continuating to associate with, tolerate, and defend these people and their evil behaviors is childish. “But! but! some of my friends are in the Schutzstaffel, they can’t be all bad!” Grow up.
I agree, the “holier than thou” attitude is really gross. I was hoping this was going to be less of an echo chamber than Reddit but it’s starting to look like it’s worse. Let’s blow this popsicle stand bro I’m out of here
If right-leaning, but not bigoted, there is a lot of space within the Democrats for that, and always has been.
Which is less than ideal, as the GOP remains populated by a mix of extremists & the grossly inattentive, Democrats yanked well to the right of centre, and the left utterly stymied.
But, the point remains that if someone is turning a blind eye to the harm being waged against their fellow Americans in favour of some nebulous lean (which the GOP’s consistently do not bother to address anyhow), then arguably they are far worse than a bigot, who at least one can consider to be haplessly hate-filled, rather than blithely lending support to the hate-filled.
Many of my family and some of my um, not quite friends, are conservative, and all are varying degrees of racist, sexist, or transphobic. Granted, that’s just anecdotal, but have a hard time believing people who vote for bigots aren’t somewhat bigoted themselves if they’re willing to throw vulnerable populations under the bus for 0.5% lower taxes or whatever.
You’re right, but I’m not sure you understand the mechanics behind it. You probably think since you don’t look like a gigachad, that you don’t get dates. Women do care about looks sometimes, but not nearly as much as guys tend to fixate on. The quality I hear women trying to find most in a man is decency, followed by personality, shared interests, connection and then yeah, I guess looks.
The trope you’re playing is funny, which is why we keep seeing it in media. A similar trope is seeing a “10/10” girl with a “3/10” guy and saying… “him!?!” Or something about him needing to be rich or something… because women only care about looks. In reality it seems that men think women only care about looks.
So, just keep in mind, if women won’t date you, it has to do with a lot more than your looks. You can take that as a burn, or you can look within yourself, see if you think you have what women want (what I have mentioned) and if so, you’re at the longest and final stage: putting yourself out there.
Edit: just to clarify, I define “decency” with a simple test which is “do I participate in any activities that go against what women are asking have been asking for for decades?” Things like right-wing politics (abortion bans, subservience to men), a livable wage, repect for consent, etc… if the answer is no, you aren’t “decent”. They aren’t asking for power over men, they’re asking not to get raped and to have the bodily autonomy just as men have. They are asking guys not to hypersexualize them from children and try to understand that they aren’t flirting with you at work, they just need to be nice to keep their job, and that they receive a lot of unwanted attention. They’re also asking for guys to take them seriously and a lot of them would want men to know that they don’t bring these topics up because it can create an unsafe situation for them, that it even might have in their past, possibly more than once. We think that we know who men are when we see how they behave around other men. Unfortunately an astoundingly large number of men are abusive to women when other men aren’t around. So yeah, you fail the decency test for politics if those politics harm women.
What if you can’t get dates because you because you’re not attractive… and have severe ADHD or Autism or Dyspraxia, and anxiety disorders so it’s hard to make friends in the first place because of RSD, much less long-term partners
The advice to “just be yourself” is the best advice I can give, but I can elaborate. I should mention that I have severe ADHD, that 70% of ADHDers also have Autism (and that I feel I could be in that 70%), and also have some anxiety disorders too. I am also married and have been in poly relationships in the past. Here’s what I didn’t do:
I didn’t try to “fake it til you make it” with regards to confidence.
I didn’t follow any playbook. A friend of mine got super into the “[pseudo]science of seduction” which just seemed stupid and cringey so I ignored his advice.
I didn’t approach women in person often, and the few times it did it failed. I was akward, I had a stupid opener, she clearly didn’t want to be bothered, so I left (or she left and I didn’t follow).
I didn’t try to chat people up at their job.
What I did do:
thought long and deeply about the places where women would go to meet men. Aside from speed dating and maybe a sex club, I could come up with nothing. Every other place I could think of had issues: market? She’s shopping. At work? She’s working. At ladies night? Maybe but its possible she’s there to party, not to meet guys. School? She’s studying… none of these places were great places to try to meet women.
decided that I needed to try online dating. Tried a few sites and ended up on ok cupid for a bit. You know, the thing about online dating is that women sometimes go to online dating sites to meet men. I met some women, not all of them ones I connected well with. I had some flings. I was honest and ethical about the fact that I was poly and didn’t want to lock anyone into an exclusive arrangement with me.
I got jealous on occasion, but because I didn’t want anyone to “lock me down”, it was only fair that I didnt try to lock anyone else down. I worked on my jealousy. I read “the ethical slut” and started to understand and then feel compersion for my partners when they were off with other lovers.
There was a period in my life where I didn’t know better and would start being shitty when hearing the word no, following it up with “please?” Or “why?”, but i cut that shit off quickly when it became clear that this behavior wasn’t cute nor was it even remotely appreciated.
I worked at jobs and talked with women as people (e.g. I didn’t try to hit on them or be weird around them). Sometimes it was because it was a small company or sometimes a small team. This lead to some great friendships, and parties. A few times at these parties I met women who I later spoke with online and had a sexual relationship later.
One time I was going to go on a date with a woman later in the week, and later on met a married woman at a party. She wanted some attention, we danced, she talked about her shitty husband and said she wanted to fuck me, so we did after everyone went to bed, under a pop-up canopy during a thunderstorm. Great experience, she was happy and I shared that experience with the woman I had planned on going on a date later, thinking that she, who is also poly would find it exciting. She didn’t. She cancelled the date because I helped someone cheat, and that wasn’t very ethical. She was right. I didn’t mind at the time because her husband sounded like a chode and she wanted to cheat anyway, but it wasn’t something I will ever do again. I modified my ethics and behavior after that.
I went to burning man and was overwhelmed by how many extroverts where there, so I hung out near my tent. I happened to be caming near a woman from another state who was also an introvert. We chatted and hung out together, later hooking up and staying in touch before she became a trumper.
Another time at burning man, I hung out near a lot near camp (the burn is nice but there are a lot of extroverts!). I met a friend of a friend, asked her if she wanted to watch the spaceship liftoff (an art installation). Just something to do, not expecting or anticipating anything. I was attracted to her but mostly she was just around camp a lot like I was so we built up a small rapport. We watched the thing, went to a club and she asked if she could go down on me. We went back to my tent and hooked up.
I had driven a woman to burning man and was going to bring her back (rideshare). Long trip and we both wanted to stop at this hotsprings on the way back from the burn. We stopped there both got naked and got in the water. It was dusk, i felt like we had some rapport so I mentioned that I thought she was cute, or something along those lines. She said she didn’t feel the same, and I took no for an answer. We later kept in touch and I think I met someone else at one of her parties, but I can’t remember, it was a while ago.
In other words, I was myself… an akward, shy guy with basically zero game. I’m not the kind of guy who is showered with complients for being sexy, even in bed. I’m balding and have a belly. 5’ 10".
There really are people for everyone. Give up looking, and just be friendly / friends with women. Find clubs or activities that you enjoy and do those, especially if they are with others. You may just find people who are curious about you and want to get to know you more. Its so much eaiser talking with women when you see and treat them as equals.
Oh yeah I don’t even look for people to date, I can’t really be with someone that doesn’t know me well. It’s just the American suburbs are possibly one of the worst places for social interaction in general, there’s not very much of a way to meet people that’s not, like, harassing them while they’re trying to get groceries lmao (which is an obvious no).
Tangentially, why I want to live in a less car-centric area, I’m an introvert but damn it’s very isolating when everyone’s either at their house or in cars except when they’re busy. Too much asphalt and no sidewalks/bike roads/public transit and no city center or streets to be able to interact with anyone.
Also most typical people in my experience just don’t like it when those with mainly neurodevelopmental disorders are themselves… this is a shared experience with basically all of my ADHD friends, other people feel irritated or awkward when you don’t actively attempt to cover up ADHD (of course, in my experience).
I guess I should also mention that I am american. And yes the suburbs aren’t great for social interaction, the same goes for cities, though. If you like to drink, you can get some social interaction in a bar, and suburbs have bars, of course cities have more.
But since you mentioned NTs not wanting NDs to be themselves, who cares. Do you really want to be with someone you need to mask around 24/7? What if I told you that I met my wife, married her and then years later we both learn we are autistic. She having been diagnosed, me only speculating because of my ADHD, the comorbidity with Autism and some other clues about me that suggest I might be somewhere on the spectrum.
I never asked anyone who I dated if they were Autistic or not, but thinking back on it there were people who weren’t good fits. One person I can remember broke up with me because I would forget often and she had a nearly photographic memory. My wife and I went to counseling to better understand my ADHD as it seemed to her (reasonably) that I was lying to her.
Moral of the story is you can’t even begin to start finding someone for you until you are your whole, unmasked self. Keep in mind here you still have to be decent. If your stimming is actually inappropriate (e.g. public masturbation) then you will have to keep it legal at a minimum. I hate that I even feel the need to mention that, but I have seen some shit excuses online from people trying to excuse abusive behavior because that person is autistic. These people are usually just trying to be shitty under the guise of having a “a disorder” where they can’t help themselves.
If you have ADHD, my guess is you might have a few hobbies or interests. Do you, maybe in front of others, and just be your ND self. Some people will hate it and others will want to know more about you. People tend to gravite towards people who are “confident” which in this context I mean are confident doing their own thing, despite what anyone else mighr expect. You owe the world nothing.
Your very first step should be therapy/medication. We’re all just randos on the internet and won’t be able to give the same personalized treatment as someone who spent the better part of a decade studying this stuff.
Healthy habits will also help. Just 2 hours of walking total in a week makes a huge difference. You can carve out 20 minutes a day and take one day off a week, or do it all in one go on a nature hike. Cut out alcohol entirely if possible, it’s literally poison and exacerbates mental health issues. Sleep at least 6 hours, cut down on processed junk.
Beyond that I recommend finding local social spaces, like a board game shop, and going there when you feel ready. You could reach out to the owners and see if any special accommodations can be made. The hardest part will be walking in the door - the trick I use is to tell myself I’ll just stick around for 1 hour (30 minutes, 5 minutes, whatever you are able) and then leave if I’m having a bad time.
Aside from that, focus on making friends first and often a relationship will organically grow from there. I won’t pretend that it’s easy, but it’s absolutely possible. You are deserving of love and acceptance just as much as anybody else.
Therapy is extremely expensive, medication is also extremely expensive but worse it screws me up big time because of my GAD/Anxiety and causes me chest pain and cramps (I’d wager the chest pain is related to me having what sounds like angina since I was 7, but iunno, my doctor didn’t find out why)
Social spaces also don’t really exist here, I live in a sort of suburb/commute town so there’s mostly just grocery/department stores and fast food, and I don’t have a car (very expensive) so I can’t get around, there being no sidewalks or public transportation or anything.
Also have extremely bad insomnia, sleep is never guaranteed and I usually wake up in the middle of the night and can’t go back to sleep…
Idk feels like it’s near impossible to make new friends in the first place, not even considering romantic relationships. My only real friends are some of my best friend’s friends (all of who live in different states tho so can’t really do anything with but game) and very few people I’ve met online (they all live in Italy and Texas and stuff, not near me)
Some of these are less so problems with me though and moreso a result of me being broke (even online college is expensive, it’s hard to have excess money)
Speaking of health though, I’ve tried doing basic exercise a lot over the years but my Dyspraxic ass can’t do a push-up without someone placing my limbs in the exact spot they’re supposed to go and showing me how to do it every inch of the way. I do not know anyone to nor have the money for anyone to show me how… the internet also didn’t help me unfortunately.
I get you. Sorry for the serious reply, it wasn’t meant for you so much as it was meant for other people who unironically feel the same way as you joked.
Absolutely. I’ve been working really hard to improve my health both mentally and physically. I’m down 75 lbs. I’m trying to be the best version of myself.
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