When Zuckerberg is calling a country a world leader and other countries are accusing that country of killing their citizens on their own soil it should be mentioned.
Fellow Canadian here. Aside from the obvious troll farms I’m wondering shouldn’t Indians be more concerned of these kind of conduct than others? If the world turns a blind eye imagine in the future if the Indian state label you as a “terrorist” for saying something they don’t like, you are not even safe even if you managed to get out of the country.
Hey, I kind of understand what this user is saying and why they are upset.
I honestly think their reaction was them being embarrassed about what happened and took it out on me because I was there.
I do hope that they do end up understanding that there will probably never be concrete proof of these allegations but I do believe that Canada must have a pretty good idea of what happened to even open this Pandora’s Box at all.
I do understand the reaction. I have relatives in China that believe the HK protestors are foreign spies and a threat to national security that needs to be hunted down. They also thinks the political interference scandal is all made up by the Canadian government. If that’s the information you hear day in and day out then it’s natural that you believe in it and become upset when your reality is getting challenged.
I also agree with you on the last part. It doesn’t make sense for Trudeau to take on India for no reason at this point in time when India is crucial to the West in the Indo-Pacific strategy. Unless the matter is serious he has nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I haven’t looked into their code yet but that’s an interesting thought. I wonder if you can fork their code and operate an instance where private messages are disabled.
Nearly everyone I know from India uses WhatsApp so this statement checks out. I wish my own friends and family would stop using iMessage/SMS and use something like Signal. The only other app they use is Snapchat and I kinda hate that one.
In particular, see the bits on ‘Net neutrality criticism’ and ‘Impact’
TLDR: Accessing Facebook is easier or even free, accessing the rest of the internet costs money. Thus making it so poorer communities only use Facebook, and say that “Facebook is the Internet”
Few quotes:
In 2015, researchers evaluating how Facebook Zero shapes information and communication technology use in the developing world found that 11% of Indonesians who said they used Facebook also said they did not use the Internet. 65% of Nigerians, 61% of Indonesians, and 58% of Indians agree with the statement that “Facebook is the Internet”
[Internet.org] has been criticized for violating net neutrality, and by handpicking internet services that are included, for discriminating against companies not in the list, including competitors of Meta Platforms’ subsidiary Facebook.[5][6] In February 2016, regulators banned the Free Basics service in India based on “Prohibition of Discriminatory Tariffs for Data Services Regulations”.[7] The Telecom Regulatory Authority of India (TRAI) accused Facebook of failing to pass on the four questions in the regulator’s consultation paper and also blocking access to TRAI’s designated email for feedback on Free Basics.[8][9] On February 11, 2016, Facebook withdrew the Free Basics platform from India.[10] In July 2017, Global Voices published the widespread[11][12] report[13][14] “Free Basics in Real Life” analyzing its practices in Africa, Asia and Latin America, and concluding it violates net neutrality, focuses on “Western corporate content”,[11] and overall “it’s not even very helpful”.[12]
Here is a list of the countries, at least for Facebook Zero:
List of countriesJordan: Zain Jordan Albania: Telekom Albania; Vodafone Albania Algeria: Djezzy;[14] Mobilis Angola: Unitel S.A. Bosnia and Herzegovina: ERONET Bangladesh: Grameenphone Benin: MTN Group Cameroon: MTN Group Canada: Freedom Mobile Croatia: Bonbon;[15] Hrvatski Telekom;[16] MultiPlus Mobile;[17] Simpa;[18] Tomato;[19] Vipnet El Salvador: Movistar Fiji: Digicel France: SFR Germany: E-Plus[20] Ortel Greece: WIND Hellas[21] Georgia: MagtiCom Guinea: MTN Group Indonesia: XL Axiata Kenya: Airtel Kenya Kosovo: iPKO Malaysia: DiGi Morocco: Maroc Telecom Nepal: Ncell[22] Pakistan: Telenor Pakistan; Jazz Pakistan, Zong Pakistan[23][24][25][26] Palestine: Jawwal[27] Panama: Cable & Wireless Communications Philippines: Globe Telecom, Smart,[28] Poland: Play[29] Qatar: Vodafone Qatar Saudi Arabia: Saudi Telecom Company[30] South Africa: CellC (Discontinued the service), Vodacom, MTN Group Suriname: Digicel Trinidad and Tobago: Digicel United Arab Emirates: Du[31] United Kingdom: Three Zimbabwe: Telecel Zimbabwe Zambia: Airtel Zambia
I work with a group based in India. They have a completely different culture around messaging. Things I would consider worthy of an email comes as a message from them (i.e. doesn't need immediate attention/ escalation).
They are also very formal when initiating new messages, almost like they're following the same social standards as if they met you in the hallway (e g. Hi, how are you? Btw, I have this thing I need to talk to you about.). Mind you, this is all the time after exchanging dozens of messages a day.
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, just lends some credence to what Musk said.
“Get things done” is incredibly baby-brained liberal idealism. Worse, it’s awfully close to an Umberto Eco warning signal about “action for action’s sake” which coincides with liberal idealism. That’s why so much western entertainment is loaded with “the Adults In The Room” who “Get Shit Done” and that shit getting done is usually atrocities justified by the plot.
I’m surprised too. That said, I wish Christie Hefner’s plan for making a separate issue without the girls came to fruition. Playboy has always had excellent interviews and fiction. People like Margaret Atwood and Kurt Vonnegut wrote for Playboy. I have a Playboy anthology of science fiction and it’s terrific.
Unfortunately, Playboy is usually just looked at as a lurid skin rag.
"If you can look at the situation and not be on the side of Palestinians, then you are on the wrong side of apartheid and history will show that in time,"
This post on her part was fine, but the other one...not so much. She should have stuck with this one only, rather than whatever the frick murderous thing that other post was.
That’s the problem with a lot of the pro Palestine movement, they just can’t help themselves and can’t just stop at demanding rights, but wanting the rights of others removed as well. Western nations just aren’t going up empathize with you if you’re murdering and parading women’s corpses around, or if you’re threatening to kill hostages, many of which are children. As much as you may not like it, there’s a difference optically between dropping a bomb and putting a gun to a child’s head and pulling the trigger cause you didn’t get your way.
What does being Jewish have to do with Israel? Are you conflating the two? Blaming Jews for what Israel has been doing for decades is pretty anti-semetic.
No it’s just that Jews have gotten prickly about anyone criticizing Israel because of how much trouble anti-zionism has had banishing anti-semitism from trying to infiltrate.
It’s only changed because the Neonazis have absorbed enough evangelicals to decide they like the jews having Israel now because battle of Armageddon and “I know revelations says it is impossible to know when the rapture will happen but I’m gonna try and make it happen anyways like an absolute dumbass!”
Can someone please tell the freedom fighters in Palestine to flip their phones and film horizontal," she wrote on the platform on Saturday.
That’s all. If you’re very inattentive or deliberately misinterpreting her words, you’d think that she was endorsing Hamas as “freedom fighters”.
But if you DO pay attention and know anything, you’ll notice that she never mentions Hamas and know that Hamas aren’t usually the ones filming any of their atrocities. Add her clarification from a few days later and it’s clear that she did NOT endorse Hamas and is the victim of character assassination because she had the temerity to speak up against the apartheid regime:
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
Nope. I’m merely refraining from assuming without evidence that she’s endorsing terrorism.
You don’t have to be “some kind of top geopolitical expert” to know that Hamas don’t tend to film their atrocities themselves and that oppressed Palestinians very often film the atrocities of the Israeli occupation forces.
If there’s any mental gymnastics here, it’s in confusing common knowledge for elite geopolitical expertise.
I think you don’t realise how little knowledge “common knowledge” actually is. Peolple on lemmee arent you’re average joe when it comes to geopolitical knowledge. I am not dismissing her knowledge eitherx but i believe you are overestimating it.
Yeah because a Lebanese-American public figure who sympathises with the plight of Palestine has NEVER had to answer bad faith arguments equating Hamas with all Palestinians and would thus have NO need for more knowledge about the methods of them than your average inattentive and incurious casual ingester of pro-regime billionaire-owned American news! 🙄
Hamas don’t tend to film their own atrocities and they’re not the only ones committing atrocities.
Israel is also committing atrocities and the oppressed citizens of Palestine are filming a lot of it. THAT’S the footage she asked to be recorded in landscape rather than portrait.
Perhaps still not in the best taste for a public platform, but it’s a damn sight better than endorsing terrorism like this article and others are incorrectly claiming.
You’re seriously asking why regular unarmed people are documenting human rights abuses rather than physically attack heavily armed soldiers who are in the middle of demonstrating how little Palestinian lives matter to them? Is that what you’re actually asking?
Also, who says it was said in the context of the latest Hamas atrocity? Judging by the actual words and sentences, it would seem much more likely to be in response to bad video of the retaliatory atrocities of the Israeli oppressors.
Seems like you’re very eager to tar and feather her for speaking up against your favorite ethnostate.
Why don’t “freedom fighters” don’t “fight” the atrocities rather than film them?
those regular civilians should hit the missiles with baseball bats, that’ll show 'em. Much more effective than filming the atrocities being inflicted upon them and spreading the word online!
In the largest apartheid concentration camp on earth, the civilian prisoners who document and expose their oppressors to the world are fighting for their freedom
Yeah I’M the stupid one, not the arrogant shit for brains whose sole contribution is to do a less intelligent version of Nelson Muntz at people who actually base their arguments on real world context coupled with reading the actual words rather than imagining completely different ones 🙄
There are other kinds of fighting than violence on a grand scale. Regular Palestinians are fighting the apartheid regime in ways big and small every day.
Yeah, I have this odd quirk of downvoting sealions when they ask bad faith questions with obvious answers that they refuse to accept. I’m kooky like that!
A good faith question is when you’re honestly seeking clarification either because you don’t know something or don’t know what the other person means.
Sealioning is when you’re “just asking questions” in a manipulative manner with no intention of taking the answers seriously under consideration or making a valid point of your own.
It’s often used in place of an actual argument when the sea lion knows that their point isn’t strong enough to withstand scrutiny.
The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade is the militant wing of Fatah, the al-Quds Brigades are the militant wing of the Palestinian Islamic Jihad, the DFLP is also active as the Martyr Omar Al-Qasim Forces.
Keep in mind she was a Lebanese refugee that lived through the conflict between Hezbollah and Israel. I’m not condoning anything she said but she has a somewhat understandable view of the whole situation.
Hamas committed atrocities and Israel has responded with atrocities. That doesn’t make calling Hamas “freedom fighters” in this context any less deplorable.
I don’t think she was refering to Hamas as freedom fighters. Everybody was just eager to put it in her mouth (eh).
Answering your question, yes, we can condemn them both. But in different ways.
Israel “created” Hamas. You can only push a people so far. The oppression and humiliation, generation after generation is bound to create extreme hate. And that’s how shit like Hamas sprouts. Israel has been breeding that hate for decades.
But…Hamas actions are still their own. I can live in a world with Israel if Israel changes. But Hamas has to go. But something else will appear if Israel keeps pushing on the Palestinians. Hamas is a symptom.
The cycle of violence has to be broken. And the one that has the upper hand has to do it to be effective. The 2 state solution is dead. It’s ironic that these 2 peoples can’t live with each other but at the same time they need each other.
Palestine is too fractured to thrive without Israel. Israel, while it might not seem so, needs to make good with Palestine to consolidate its place in the region. Without that peace Israel is doomed on the long term. When the chips are down and the US is not there to help they will find themselves completely isolated surrounded by hostile countries. And that Israel cannot survive.
You know there were a lot of folks who happened to be in New York City on September 11th, 2001, who happened to get the business end of some retaliation for the shitty things our country did during the Cold War. More so, a lot of them (if not all of them) distinctly didn't have any direct connection to the thing that was being retaliated for.
So do we get to take the innocent card from those folks who died that day? No? So curious as to the special circumstances that applies to the folks who are tired of Hamas' shit in the Gaza Strip but can't leave because Israel won't let them and they can't get rid of Hamas because they'll just kill them. What's the special case that means those people who are tired of this conflict don't matter or aren't worthy of being called oppressed?
And thus the circle is complete and peace unattainable.
You should perhaps remember that a few, very few, had a part in the terrorist attack and the terrorists have claimed to have done the crime for the exact same grievance in the other direction. If you pay attention you may discover that punishing those involved shall offend no one, where as blowing the fuck out of innocent People's homes in no way helps and is assured to get lots of condemnation.
Peace was never the goal to begin with. Violence begets violence. If they really wanted peace they should have negotiated and used politics and all kinds of different ways than killing people.
Yes, Israel would have had they wanted peace and security. Hamas, as a terrorist organization, has no such ability even if there were will to do so. Powers that Be want this on both sides.
Uhh, dude? Hamas is just a terrorist organization. They murdered a bunch of babies by cutting off their heads. You can support Palestine and oppose Israel’s settlements without carrying water for a group that does shit like that.
The only source of that "beheaded a bunch of babies" claim seems to be a "news" site called I24... A site that is mostly truthful when not talking about Israel and Palestine, but has flat out invented stories that push their pro-Isreal narrative,
Every other mention of the story so far seems to point back to that one site.
You’re kidding, right? So IDF soldiers who were interviewed as they were moving bodies out of the kibbutz were just lying?
Don’t do this. Don’t carry water for barbaric, inhuman acts like this. You can support Palestine’s freedom without condoning the beheading of children or trying to convince yourself it didn’t happen. Too many independent reports have corroborated it now. The BBC interviewed individual soldiers who had to deal with the insanity afterwards, and they’ll be scarred for the rest of their lives by what they’ve seen. Don’t belittle it.
And don’t belittle the Palestinian quest for freedom by defending monstrosity done in their name. Hamas isn’t Palestine.
Personally I would like it corroborated with bonafide evidence rather than word of mouth of a belligerent party. I’m skeptical, but only for the above. I imagine if there is truth to this that a human rights watch dog will seek the same proof.
But with that said, I didn’t need a report like that to condemn Hamas for this renewed conflict in the first place. This does absolutely nothing to help the Palestinians and absolutely everything to hurt them. Every way you slice this you just end up with senseless tragedy and loss of life on every side.
I just heard an interview with an Israeli who saw it firsthand, the interview was on CBS news. I think that’s a respectable enough organization to assume it’s true until proven otherwise by watchdogs.
At least they don’t tend to go around taking hostages and raping them. Honestly I was almost supportive of Hamas in this, before finding out that they’re behaving even worse than the animals they claim to be fighting. I think you loose all legitimacy when you go out of your way to cause unneeded harm
The beheading specifically are BS, it came from an Israeli-US propaganda channel where they repeated a lie from an IDF soldier. All the news outlets have used the same source, incredibly irresponsibly.
Lemmy automatically marks comments from mods as mod comments. This isn’t Reddit. I’m not talking as a mod, I’m just talking as me.
But it’s not IDF propaganda. It’s been confirmed by dozens of news outlets now. It happened. Stop carrying water for people who would do that. Hamas isn’t Palestine.
Did she actually do so? From whats posted here she made a poor taste joke criticizing their filming. While perhaps bad judgment, that alone isn't remotely supporting anything.
Maybe the hill you die on shouldn’t be murdering and executing innocent civilians there chief. Just a little tip for not being a complete piece of shit.
I mean you opened your mouth wide enough for your foot with that one. I don’t know what you expected to happen when commenting about a geopolitical situation that’s grown a gravity so large it’s collapsed in on itself to the point that because your comment doesn’t specify a side it can be validly used by someone on either side of the debate.
What they’re referring to deserves to be talked about and brought up as it is demonstrably intrinsic to a conversation concerning Israel-Palestine relations.
Had they brought up literally any other country it would be what-aboutism. You can’t just throw that term around every time someone issues a counterpoint that you don’t feel is valid.
Unless you are going back to the war with the Romans, the Jews were not a persecuted minority in that region any more than any other minority, which would include the Arabs themselves seeing as they were controlled by the Ottomans for hundreds of years previous. The Jews were tolerated, and there was a very small religious community living in Jerusalem during the hundreds of years of Ottoman control that got along perfectly fine. The greater diaspora, especially in Eastern Europe through the 18th and 19th centuries was, however, constantly persecuted and were victims of numerous pogroms.
The Zionist movement was a reaction to the fact that European countries could not be trusted. It was a common cycle that the Jews would make a living for themselves, beginning to think that they could finally establish a home but then get attacked, scapegoated, and forced to flee. It was the Eastern European Jews fleeing such pogroms who would make up the majority of the first settlers of the Zionist mission in Palestine.
All this is simply to say that when people claim “oh they’ve been fighting there for thousands of years” and “the Jews were being persecuted there for so long” is not accurate. There really has not been a Jewish presence in the region since the Jewish revolt was put down by the Romans 2,000 years ago. While the current conflict is decades old, it is entirely related to the circumstances around the founding of Israel.
This is not entirely accurate. For most of history Jews were tolerated in the region, but even then they were systematically discriminated against through the legal system that would for instance not allow a Jew to testify against a Muslim in court or subject jews and other minorities to taxes not levied on Muslims.
By the late 19th and early 20th century the Muslim world began engaging in the same sort of anti-semitism and pogroms that had mostly been limited to Europe prior. This did largely have its roots in the European influence on Middle Eastern nations but nevertheless the rise in anti-semitism(for lack of a better word since most parties are semitic) in the middle east predated the formation of Isreal in 1948.
It is certainly true that this discrimination was less than they faced in Europe for most of the history of the middle east, but being better than that is a very low bar.
Consider the following fictional situation:
A news story comes out detailing a terrible tragedy where some people were stuck in a collapsed mine for months and that they had to eat one of their dead to survive. A horrible situation by all accounts. One of the miners is later interviewed and they mention how bad it was to have to eat someone. Someone then posts online saying this: “Next time it won’t taste so bad if you add some salt and pepper.”
Is the person who made the post condoning cannibalism? Of course not. Was the comment in poor taste? Absolutely. (Pun not intended)
“I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence,” she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
I just want to make it clear that this statement in no way shape or form is [inciting] spread of violence," she said. "I specifically said freedom fighters because that’s what the Palestinian citizens are… fighting for freedom every day.
Hamas as an organization doesn’t represent the Palestine people as whole, and an individual Hamas fighter even less so.
While your typical Palestine farmer might not be too fond of all the killing and murdering done by Hamas terrorists, atleast they’re killing and murdering the people they perceive to be most at fault for the situation they’re living in. Nobody can say, with a straight face, that there’s not atleast a kernel of truth behind that belief.
Still - indiscriminately killing innocent civilians is not the way.
In Gaza yeah. Not on the west bank which is the bulk of Palestine. If I remember correctly those elections were like 17 years ago and they got around 45% of the vote
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