Window management is one of those areas I’m fascinated with because even after 50 years, nobody’s fully cracked it yet
The article begins with a false premise, misrepresenting the capabilities of Windows and macOS in terms of window management. In reality, both operating systems have been offering effective window management features for years, dating back to Apple’s Exposé release with macOS Panther in 2003. On the other hand, current versions of iPadOS, and GNOME are plagued by poor desktop experiences that hinder efficient multitasking.
Most of us simply want a DE that doesn’t get in the way, but the “solutions” proposed by GNOME often create more obstacles, slow down multi-tasking, and obstruct proper window management. Instead of addressing these issues, the GNOME team continues to introduce convoluted features that fail to improve the user experience. For instance, requiring users to switch to a full-screen interface to access other applications is subpar UX design - Windows 8 did this and proved it was the wrong approach. Additionally, GNOME’s lacks a decent notification area / menu bar like Windows and macOS. Where’s a way to control what icons show up and what are hidden? What about reordering them?
The GNOME team’s fixation on their own unique desktop vision holds back the progress of desktop Linux as a whole. With its potential to excel in this space, GNOME has an opportunity to become a top-tier DE, but poor decisions such as removing desktop icons and insisting on subpar window management keep it from reaching its full potential, becoming the face of Linux desktop.
Until you find out that extensions don’t provide the same level of integration as something that comes built in with the DE. A prime example of this was when they dropped desktop icons in GNOME 3.28 and all extensions for that available to this day have issues with drag and drop and other things.
For instance, requiring users to switch to a full-screen interface to access other applications is subpar UX design
no?, it’s simply easier to click and find the app, it’s not like you are looking anywhere ense when you open windows start, and i use KDE with the fullscreen start-menu
His ideas are mostly disjointed. Windows got one thing very right, very fast and snappy multitasking and that’s about it. GNOME adds animations, takes the focus from the applications and the information inside them to become the “center of users attention”. This isn’t good, a DE should be almost invisible, as minimalistic as it can be so the user can quickly switch between Windows and get their job done specially on smaller screens. I guess most people running GNOME that say they enjoy never touched Apple’s old Exposé or the current Windows Task View (Win+Tab) this aren’t aware how far and how productive you can be on a very small screen with a simple way to move around.
it’s not like you are looking anywhere ense when you open windows start
That's just not true, at least in my experience. I typically use the search box to open what I am looking for, and frankly would be very annoyed if I had to switch to something that takes over my entire screen to do that. I don't even have to do that on my phone, and that is my biggest complaint with Gnome is that it looks and feels like they are trying to make a mobile interface first, not a PC interface. And if I have to browse for something, I do still much prefer a small organized menu to something filling my entire screen. I'm on an ultra-wide screen, I don't want to have to physically turn my head to see the entire list. Maybe this makes sense on very small screens but that circles me back around to feeling like Gnome is meant for a tablet and not my desktop PC.
Clearly we all have different ideas and work flows that we like, and that's fine. I'm very happy there are alternatives to Gnome as I've hated it every time I've tried it; but, obviously there are a lot of people that like what they are doing. I just probably won't ever understand those people.
The GNOME team’s fixation on their own unique desktop vision holds back the progress of desktop Linux as a whole.
nah, this is totally wrong, want to have a windows like ui?, switch to every other DE that exist, it’s thwir project, they do what they want, and they can experiment thungs if they want, that’s the beauty of linux
yes, they can take bad decisions sometimes, but don’t act like they are slowing down progreds, because they aren’t, why we want have 200 looklike DEs?
Windows is always one step ahead because they experiment a lot. their experiments may flop, they may face outrage, but they are always trying new things. and when they find something good they stick with it.
Things appearing suddenly on screen is more distracting than 200ms animations. On Gnome you're supposed to click the meta key, type the first 3 letters of the app name, click enter, and the app opens. If you can do it fast enough then you won't even see the animations, if you can't then the animations aren't the problem.
MacOS window management sucks, and Gnome/Plasma are already the face of the Linux desktop.
Those preset layouts you get in Windows 11 when you hover over the maximize button are a huge step forward. Also nice is the way it remembers your window groupings and treats them as a single unit when you hover over the icon of any of the applications involved in the task bar, so you can restore the whole window group with a single click.
That said, on my Linux machines I use Cinnamon and KDE, and I haven’t found either frustrating for window management. Gnome lost me during their first major overhaul.
KDE would’ve been great if they had some sense of design and knew how to properly apply spacing and proportions across the DE. But in terms of pure usability they are orders of magnitude above the crap GNOME is pushing for.
I think the current KDE Plasma looks just as good as many of the alternatives. It’s certainly far from the jarring design mess that KDE was for decades, and for the first time in years I’m actually happy to use it.
Yeah that’s not the greatest. I admit it could still benefit from more tidying up. But it no longer provokes the instant “Oh God no!” reaction that used to send me running for anything but KDE.
The ideal desktop would be something like… KDE’s usability in terms of a bottom bar, notification area and menu + the design consistency of GNOME. I’m currently doing that with ArcMenu and Dash to Panel under GNOME but still get annoyed from time to time with a bunch of details.
I’m always cautious when GNOME says they’re reconcepting a process that we’re happy with. I’m curious to see where this goes but unfortunately GNOME already lost me to KDE :(
a. Only about programs using libadwaitab. About their opinion that just overriding the global style like in GTK3 was causing too many issues in apps defining their own widgets or CSS to be worth it.
IIRC they were willing to accept a contribution of a more advanced theming system (but building it themselves was not something they wanted to prioritise over other things), but lacking that they’d rather enforce using adwaita in libadwaita.
Why is this the sanest thing? There are many people that enjoy using gnome including myself. Don’t you think this is an extreme take for something that just doesn’t align with your views on how the Linux desktop should be?
@SpaceCadet
the gnome design philosophy had been defined for a long time now. it's not just one or two people making gnome like software and forcing people to use their design.
it's people coming together to create user aligned software of you want to mod the heck out of it you can but it always provided a stable base @haroldstork
The main problem I have with Gnome is exactly this: extensions. Vanilla Gnome is so barebones that it makes the MacOS feature-rich. So you really need extensions.
But the problem with extensions is that when you update Gnome, you’re not sure if the extensions you’re using will work. It’s a logistics I don’t want to think about anymore. For me, extensions are good for distros because you can update everything as one package.
I’m much happier with KDE. As always, experience varies, but this has been my experience.
But the problem with extensions is that when you update Gnome, you’re not sure if the extensions you’re using will work.
I can’t believe this is still a thing. I made an honest attempt at using Gnome 3 about a decade ago and gave up after a couple of months because of this, mostly.
Automatically do what people probably want, allow adjusting if needed
This is probably the thing that irks me the most about it. Most everything I open remembers where it was last time I opened it and just goes there. So I only have to decide once where and how big I want a window to be, generally. I don't want that to be contextually different depending on what else is open the vast majority of the time either, so I don't want to fight with my DE over where and how big a window should be.
I don't know, to each their own I suppose. Tons of people seems to like Gnome, so I don't want to hate on it... But it feels like they are making a DE for people that don't want to learn to use a computer, people that have mostly only used tablets and phones, or people that want the device to make the decisions for them... Which doesn't sound at all like the people that are switching to or already using Linux. I don't know, I have to assume I am just missing the magic something that Gnome provides to others.
To give what I hope is an apt analogy: Imagine you have desk where you do all your work. Every other DE handles this desk like a human would just putting stuff everywhere, moving and grabbing as needed.
This proposal and gnome in general take that desk and make it an auto-sorting desk so you can always grab what you need as fast as possible at all times without doing any organization yourself. Oftentimes I use a lot of different apps sporadically so having something that can auto-sort them is a dream come true.
The real magic of gnome is A: how pretty and polished it and the apps are and B (arguably more important): how little you have to fight it to get work done. I spend zero time thinking on gnome, I just hit the super key or three finger swipe and what I want is done. This proposal brings me even more of that. I’m like 2x more productive than my windows coworkers and most of that is due to gnome.
Very excited to see where this will go. I don’t use gnome, but if it manages to become the perfect mix of TWM and the traditional floating layout, then this could be huge
@cx0der
I really like this. Gnome could be just settling and following what other DEs already do, but instead it is inovating. This type of move will always piss off people that already have a set way of organizing themselves, but I am really interesting in testing new stuff. Can't wait it see it implemented
Yeah not everybody likes it but I love how they try to go beyond the normal way of working and improve on it. Instead of sticking to existing ways which are ingrained into people.
Looks well thought out, I’m interested! I think the biggest problem will be leaving the user enough control to modify the layouts after they’ve launched and not downsize apps after the user has upsized them and the like. As long as that is overcome this would be a fantastic way to use the desktop.
I don’t get why most comments here are so negative. It’s Linux, if GNOME no longer fits your needs, you can always switch to another desktop. There are lots to choose from!
I am actually excited to see how these ideas will work in practice. I’ll complain after I’ve used it, if it really doesn’t work well. But until then I am quite positive about it. If no one tried to innovate, we would still be stuck without electricity afterall …
Personally I have yet to encounter window management that doesn’t annoy me in one way or the other. I would be happy, if GNOME developers actually managed to come up with a better way of managing windows, similar to how GNOME’s dynamic workspaces changed how I use virtual desktops.
I don’t get why most comments here are so negative. It’s Linux, if GNOME no longer fits your needs, you can always switch to another desktop. There are lots to choose from!
Which don’t mean that we cannot criticize GNOME while discussing 😉
I can agree that there could be a problem with too many windows on a desktop but the solution they propose is the worst possible one.
For a user it make no sense that when you add a window to the desktop (say open a terminal) all the other window move to other places (or you switch to another workspace entirely)
Aside the fact that usually I (and people in general) remember where a window is, the big problem is that I positioned the applications as I need and I want them to stay there because I need them that way, even when I add another one. It is my problem where to put the new window, and I will probably put it where I need it.
Put it that way: it would be a good idea if in a IDE every time you open a new panel, all the already open panels change their arrangement ?
It is just another case of “we know better than the user what the user needs” from the GNOME developers (remember when they remove the advanced option of the printers because “users would be confused” ?)
Which don’t mean that we cannot criticize GNOME while discussing 😉
No, but I think one should try something first and then criticise. Sometimes new stuff just has a learning curve because it is different to what you are used to, but after learning it, it turns out that you actually like it better.
Aside the fact that usually I (and people in general) remember where a window is, the big problem is that I positioned the applications as I need and I want them to stay there because I need them that way, even when I add another one. It is my problem where to put the new window, and I will probably put it where I need it.
That’s the approach with floating window managers. But some people like window managers that do window arrangement for them, i. e. tiling window managers. GNOME seems to try to combine elements of both approaches into one new idea. ;)
Personally I actually hate having to manually re-arrange my windows. If a window manager managed to do this for me in an intuitive way, working on my PC would be more pleasant for me. That’s why I think that I might like GNOME’s new idea.
Other projects, like Windows 11 or Cosmic desktop also experiment with overhauling window management. Windows 11 includes several different tiling layouts that you can select manually and Cosmic includes auto tiling functionality. GNOME’s proposal just seems to go a bit further, similar to how GNOME workspaces are one step ahead of virtual desktops on Windows, since GNOME’s workspaces are dynamic, whereas on Windows you have to manually add and remove them.
It is just another case of “we know better than the user what the user needs” from the GNOME developers
No, it is just another case of GNOME trying to improve the user experience on regular computers.
(remember when they remove the advanced option of the printers because “users would be confused” ?)
I would argue that there shouldn’t be two settings menus for printers. There should be one that is able to do all common tasks. So I agree with the decision to remove one of them, but I disagree with not offering essential settings (e. g. Sound Juicer lost the ability to specify compression ratio).
No, but I think one should try something first and then criticise. Sometimes new stuff just has a learning curve because it is different to what you are used to, but after learning it, it turns out that you actually like it better.
Maybe, but then you should convince me that what I am going to try can be potentially better than what I already have. And the idea behind what GNOME are going to do is not that good. Then this is my idea, no problem if someone like it. btw, I am not a GNOME user anyway, so I could just say “who cares” 😀
Personally I actually hate having to manually re-arrange my windows. If a window manager managed to do this for me in an intuitive way, working on my PC would be more pleasant for me. That’s why I think that I might like GNOME’s new idea.
That’s fine. But to me the problem is that I normally put my windows how I need them (and I suppose I am not the only one) so a window manager that thinks it know better is a no start for me. Now, I accept if a window manager put a new window is a empty area, but the idea to move the other windows is just awful to me.
No, it is just another case of GNOME trying to improve the user experience on regular computers.
Problem is they are using the wrong users groups to make their decisions. They are saying that since older people and kids may be confused from the current behaviour then they must change it for everyone. I see two big problems here:
they are underestimating one of their users group (the kids) which are much more smarter with a PC then they seem to think
the other users group probably has not the problem since they already use just one app at the time
I would argue that there shouldn’t be two settings menus for printers. There should be one that is able to do all common tasks. So I agree with the decision to remove one of them, but I disagree with not offering essential settings (e. g. Sound Juicer lost the ability to specify compression ratio).
I would argue that I’d like that my OS allow me to use all the features of my hardware. I would have understood that they moved the least common used options to another dialog (to be open with a button or any other solutions, it does not matter) but I not accept that they just remove it “because users could be confused”. Fine, someone could be confused, but what about the users that are not confused and need to use the feature ?
Because I loved it and I don’t love it for some time now.
For me it’s the opposite. I actually wasn’t too happy with GNOME 2 and all the problems it had with panel applets. It stored absolute pixels for their position on the panel (instead of relative positions, like Xfce does) and almost every time you plugged your laptop into a display with a different resolution, all your applets got randomly rearranged.
Then Ubuntu switched to Unity and I actually loved it, even though I didn’t understand (I was much younger back then) why I could no longer add eyes to my panel and why I couldn’t rearrange panels anymore. 😅 The locally integrated menu in later versions was great and I always loved the macOS-like look of the top panel for some reason.
GNOME Shell certainly was a huge learning curve and completely different to GNOME 2 and early versions were rough. But once Canonical made clear that it didn’t want to adopt Wayland and instead develop their own incompatible display server, I switched to GNOME Shell. Since I got used to it, I actually don’t mind it much and nowadays it has a very polished and professional feel to it.
I also think it is great that GNOME apps are convergent and work on mobile phones as well as on desktops. Makes the app availability for Linux phones better and reduces the amount of manpower required.
So I’ve used the Pop Shell extension. It’s really neat when you have a bunch of little windows like terminals and file browsers open. 95% of the time it’s actively annoying though. I appreciate that it’s on a toggle so I can use it when I want it. The proposed mosaic mode doesn’t seem terribly different, and has the same problem where it just randomly moves things around breaking my association of “where I put that”. Most of the time I really need the spatial aspect, and am willing to manage a few windows by hand to get it.
Also: Joining half screen windows into a single unit?! Please don’t do it! D: Augh! Apple did that on OS X about the time I left and I absolutely hated it. It was so actively bad. :(
When I was using Gnome on a laptop, I really enjoyed the PaperWM tiling manager extension. It’s not exactly something that can be used with a mouse, but it’s a really pleasant touchpad/touch first multitasking interface, where instead of having traditional workspaces that are constrained to the size of your monitor, you basically get infinite horizontally scrollable workspaces that are a joy to navigate with a touchpad.
Ive been using Pop OS which has their own Gnome extension (Cosmic? or Pop Shell?)for tiling/floating windows management and it works really well for me. Its toggle-able and adjust window size and placement pretty well imo.
This is probably going to make me sound like a curmudgeon, but:
While most of us are used to this system and its quirks, that doesn’t mean it’s without problems. This is especially apparent when you do user research with people who are new to computing…
I don’t understand this thinking (1), and worse, the workflow described seems like it will just make things more confusing (2).
(1) Most tools humans have developed are not especially intuitive - you usually need someone to teach you at least the basics, and then you need to practice. Consider a driving a car, operating a sewing machine, a microwave… Even something “simple” like a hammer has features that need to be explained (“turn it around, and you can use the claw on the back to remove nails”).
(2) This seems like it just introduces more inconsistency. Right now, a new window opens on top, and you move it and size it however you need. This works for all windows. With the model described, windows sometimes float next to each other (but the arrangement is random), some times tile, and other times will open on a new workspace. And the tiling features get even more confusing - dragging one window over another causes them to tile, but what if I actually just want them to overlap?
I feel like this is just going to annoy anyone used to the current system and still require a learning curve for anyone new to computing.
I’ve used gnome 2 and 3, Unity, KDE 3, 4, and 5, and am on gnome 44 now - I actually think the current world is pretty good. I’d much rather see quarter tiling and gesture customization than a whole new window management paradigm.
Exactly, I don’t get how these people are supposed to be UI UX experts but don’t understand that inconsistent behaviour is a very fast way to confuse and break user trust.
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